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  1.    #1  
    Hello all,

    I'm a new Treo 180 user since one week.
    Since in our country (Slovenia, Europe) Treos are expensive ($365 for 180, $1050 for 270) and no provider plans exist, I went for the 180.

    It came with GPRS 1.1.1 and I upgraded it to the 1.1.2, found on www.handspring.co.uk website.

    Since I haven't had a PDA before, I have no complaints regarding the PDA part of the device - for me it works just fine.

    But I do have BIG! complaints regarding the GSM part:

    1. EVERY GSM phone works as soon as you put the SIM card in; in about 20-30 seconds all the phone numbers on the SIM are copied to internal phone memory and available to be dialled and to identify an incoming call.
    Not so with Treo (as most of you already know and I have just discovered); while you can dial the numbers with SIM book, there is no name recognition for the incoming calls.
    You have to copy the SIM numbers to contacts via the usage of another GSM phone with IR port - this is really embarrassing!

    2. You can copy the SIM numbers to short dialling list directly, but only 50 of them; what about the rest of the 250 numbers on the SIM card? there should at least be an easy way to copy all the short dialling numbers to Contacts.

    3. EVERY GSM phone has a direct access to first 9 numbers on the SIM card via the 1..9 keypad keys (depends on phone; on some this works with long key press, on others number + # or number +# + dial key...) - not so on Treo.

    4. There is no way to store new numbers to SIM; you must copy them to short dialling list and then copy them again to SIM. I would expect a really good SIM editing tool on a PDA!
    What happens when Treo dies or battery is empty? You cannot simply borrow another phone and use your SIM card, since all the numbers are in the Treo!

    5. Every SIM card has two phone books: the normal one + the FDN (Fixed Dialling Numbers) - you can enable the FDN phonebook with PIN2 and then the phone is only able to dial those numbers (useful for company phones issued to employees,...). No support for this on Treo!

    6. Just today, while performing a HotSync via IR I called my mobile number. The line was busy! Hello? Is this a GSM phone or a toy? The hotsync took an hour and all this time I was unavailable! And the green light flashed normally. Simply unacceptable for a serious phone user!

    7. Poor GSM reception: while being in a garage, my friends were able to make calls (with a Nokia and a Ericsson), while my phone was searching for a network...

    8. No Network problems: yesterday after returning from abroad, where I used roaming, I turned on the wireless mode and the phone was not able to find the network. I tried everything: turning wireless mode on/off, removing/reinstalling the SIM card, using another SIM card (both of them worked fine in a 4 years old Samsung phone,...), soft reset. Nothing worked. I then did the ultimate thing: hard reset. Luckily, this worked, but deleted all the Treo's memory, so I had to HotSync it. This was not a problem at home, but I cannot imagine having to do this on the road. Not to mention poor SIM phonebook support and not being able to use the SIM card in a backup phone since all the numbers are in Treo's contacts... this is a deadlock situation: resetting the phone and loosing all contacts to be able to make a phone call - to whom without all the contacts?

    9. The bugs / lack of features
    a) Fourth menu (call history) in Phone application - a hack must be used to enable this feature (factory on non GPRS model)
    b) Many times there is no tone while dialling - until the other party picks up the call - a known bug
    c) Treo 180 HAS A KEYBOARD AND TUCHSCREEN - I would expect all features would be accessible via both - not so; while you can access the menus with keyboard, you can only press some of the onscreen buttons via touchscreen (this goes for the factory installed software too, not just third party). A tool like PowerJog has to be used to be able to press those buttons without breaking out the stylus. And even that one does not work in some software (MobiPocket - menu items only accessible via stylus)
    d) Bundled Giraffe graffiti learning game does not work with bundled RecoEchoPlus; hello?
    e) backlight hack (color inverting) - this should be a standard feature with BW screen
    f) Blazer sucks! I don't know what awards it got, but it is simply useless! It can not show about 2/3 of pages I tried it on. Even Eudora in text mode works better, not to mention iPanel (which is a beta and really crashes all the time, but has potential...)

    Summary:

    While the Treo is a potentially great device, it is still in diapers - at least as far as the GSM phone part is concerned. Most of the issues I mentioned are known for more than a year and I cannot imagine why Handspring did nothing about them. And most of them are only software issues, so they can be solved with a simple upgrade users can do themselves.

    Even the crappiest oldest GSM phone on the market has better GSM features than Treo. And most importantly: it is more reliable!
    With a Treo, even with the green light flashing normally, you cannot rely on being available.

    Sure hope Handspring will do the GSM part of the Treo 600 as it should, otherwise it will have zero chance compared to Nokia, Sony-Ercsson and other smart (GSM) phones - at least in Europe.
    I was very excited when I first got the 180 and looked forward to the 600, but now I am really sceptical. Handspring should fix the most annoying Treo bugs and bring the GSM features on a standard GSM phone level. Since they did nothing, I am not really convinced they are doing all this for the Treo 600...

    All in all: I like the Treo, but this is a BETA release, not a normally functional device and should be handled and sold as such.

    Regards
    Roni
  2. #2  
    > ...I like the Treo, but this is a BETA release,...

    The TREO 180 was indeed a beta-test, in more ways than one!

    But...

    > ... not a normally functional device and should be handled and
    > sold as such...

    It was discontinued a LONG time ago - maybe as long ago as a YEAR already - you'll note that it isn't even mentioned on Handspring's website (at least, not in any main area).
  3. #3  
    Hey Roni.

    You are quite right - Intresting no one wrote a better SIM manipulation so far.
    Well, as HS resides in the US (no offence guys), and GSM was bearly known there at the time it was developed, you can hardly expect it's designers which never used GSM, will be familiar with what is required by it's users.

    As to reception & No network, I had no such problems, my unit even works better then my Ericsson T28 - this could be:
    A. Specific unit problem.
    B. Local network problem.
    C. No Network could be due to old type of SIM.

    #3 - seems to be fixed in TREO600.

    You forgot to mention that it took more then a year to get a Car hands-Free-Set (and it's not planned for one)


    Other then that, I find the Treo quite stable.

    But I do agree, HS should have came out with an updated SW.

    But then again, If you look in these boards, GSM users are maybe only 3rd of the Treo users, and HS have their hands full with Treo600 .....

    I hope they will at least add your Bug list to T600 feature list.
  4. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #4  
    Originally posted by fortexg

    But I do have BIG! complaints regarding the GSM part:

    1. EVERY GSM phone works as soon as you put the SIM card in; in about 20-30 seconds all the phone numbers on the SIM are copied to internal phone memory and available to be dialled and to identify an incoming call.
    Not so with Treo (as most of you already know and I have just discovered); while you can dial the numbers with SIM book, there is no name recognition for the incoming calls.
    You have to copy the SIM numbers to contacts via the usage of another GSM phone with IR port - this is really embarrassing!

    2. You can copy the SIM numbers to short dialling list directly, but only 50 of them; what about the rest of the 250 numbers on the SIM card? there should at least be an easy way to copy all the short dialling numbers to Contacts.

    3. EVERY GSM phone has a direct access to first 9 numbers on the SIM card via the 1..9 keypad keys (depends on phone; on some this works with long key press, on others number + # or number +# + dial key...) - not so on Treo.

    4. There is no way to store new numbers to SIM; you must copy them to short dialling list and then copy them again to SIM. I would expect a really good SIM editing tool on a PDA!
    What happens when Treo dies or battery is empty? You cannot simply borrow another phone and use your SIM card, since all the numbers are in the Treo!

    5. Every SIM card has two phone books: the normal one + the FDN (Fixed Dialling Numbers) - you can enable the FDN phonebook with PIN2 and then the phone is only able to dial those numbers (useful for company phones issued to employees,...). No support for this on Treo!
    You need a phone that can run better SIM manager. (ie. get a better smartphone)

    SIM manager
    http://www.iastyle.com/smartphone/ia...ager/index.asp
    http://www.iastyle.com/iapm/index.asp
    Profile manager
    http://pdaphonehome.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2983
  5.    #5  
    Hi SeldomVisitor,

    >> ...I like the Treo, but this is a BETA release,...

    >The TREO 180 was indeed a beta-test, in more ways than one!

    Agree, but It was released more than a year and a half ago and most of the issues only need a software fix, so there is no excuse why Handspring hasn't done that. Users can easily upgrade the devices via HotSync. As far as I am aware, there was NO upgrade, except for the GPRS 1.1.1 (which even removed a feature - the access to Call History) and GPRS 1.1.2, which only has additional provider info. The Firmware, Softvare and GPRS revision numbers do change with those upgrades...

    >> ... not a normally functional device and should be handled and
    >> sold as such...

    >It was discontinued a LONG time ago - maybe as long ago as a >YEAR already - you'll note that it isn't even mentioned on >Handspring's website (at least, not in any main area).

    Not true. Perhaps it was discontinued in US, but Treo 180 is still sold in Europe. Mine came with GPRS 1.1.1 upgrade included. You can find it in:
    UK: http://www.handspring.co.uk/products...mily/index.asp
    Germany: http://www.handspring.de
    Italy: http://www.handspring.it/prodotti/tr...26718713930707
    France: http://www.handspring.fr/products/treo/index.asp

    All those are official Handspring websites. Although Handspring is Headquartered in US, it has offices worldwide...

    As you can see, it is still sold (and at a premium, compared to US prices!), so it should be supported, updated and bug-fixed.
    I am not avare of Treo 270 (which still IS sold in US) having any different software / firmware, So I guess the issues mentioned are applicable to 270 also. If you know otherwise, please inform me.

    Hi Halperin,

    >you can hardly expect it's designers which never used GSM, will be familiar with what is required by it's users.

    I understand GSM is not as big in the US as it is in Europe, but this is not an excuse. The GSM MoU (organisation behind GSM) prepared the first GSM specifications some 15 years ago and even the earliest GSM phones some 10 years ago had all the features I mentioned. It is not a secret which basic features each GSM should have.
    I remembered another basic feature:
    There are no call minutage and GPRS data transfered counters (youn ned to BUY third party SW for those basic features)!
    And there is the US based Motorola, which produces GSM phones with all those features for a long time. Also, Handspring bought some third party GSM module, and that company certainly needs to know which features are mandatory for every GSM product.

    I understand new device development is a tough business and it is obvious Handspring did their best with hardware development, knowing well that software can be improved and updated later. But when entering GSM market, there are a few hundred millions (about 800 millions, according to gsmworld.com) of potential customers and some really big and tough players (Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, Samsung, Siemens, Motorola,...) so you better need to know exactly what you are doing or not enter at all.

    Like I said, seeing Handspring did nothing to improve existing Treos, I am skeptical they will automatically add all this to Treo 600. I would really like to se a list of GSM features of the Treo 600...
  6. #6  
    Y
    Originally posted by fortexg
    As far as I am aware, there was NO upgrade, except for the GPRS 1.1.1 (which even removed a feature - the access to Call History)
    That isn't true. Hit :menu: Y (I think that's it) and you can access the call history.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by fortexg
    Perhaps it was discontinued in US, but Treo 180 is still sold in Europe. Mine came with GPRS 1.1.1 upgrade included. You can find it in:

    UK: http://www.handspring.co.uk/products...mily/index.asp
    Germany: http://www.handspring.de
    Italy: http://www.handspring.it/prodotti/tr...26718713930707
    France: http://www.handspring.fr/products/treo/index.asp
    Handspring is not selling a treo 180 or (if I'm not mistaken) any treo through their websites in Europe, anymore. They only provide you with various links to resellers.

    Still, I agree that the SIM handling of the phone is substandart. I believe, though, that they'll make it all better with the treo 600. Already, the improvement of the speed dial (multiple entries per button) has been reported.

    Another point of critizism is certainly the inabillity to use the treo entirely without a stylus. Hopefully, with the d-pad that's also taken care of.

    The current treos have a lot of shortcomings, but still, it's pretty cool already. Hopefully, the treo 600 will top even that...

    andreas
    treopolis -the German treo site

    Now in beta testing: treopolis 2.0
  8.    #8  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    YThat isn't true. Hit :menu: Y (I think that's it) and you can access the call history.
    True, but try to do it with one hand, since you also need to open the lid... It is much easier to press one button four times.
    My Treo still has a picture with fourth (call history) menu icon in the phonebook in the manual.

    Treopolis,
    I like your page, it's great. So you are on Treo No. 8, huh? Always the speaker wires breaking... I am waiting for that on mine...
    One more reason not to open the lid to often...

    Any suggestions for a good browser?
    I think iPanel has potential, but it's still a beta and crashes all the time. At least the trial wersion does this, and until it is taken care of, I am not paying $25 for it.
    http://www.eis-com.com/products.html
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by fortexg


    True, but try to do it with one hand, since you also need to open the lid... It is much easier to press one button four times.
    My Treo still has a picture with fourth (call history) menu icon in the phonebook in the manual.
    You expected your manual to change? Now that *would* be cool!

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