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  1.    #1  
    What products either currently available or upcoming do you think will offer serious competition to the upcoming Treo?

    To compete it seems the product needs a higher speed cpu to support a superior screen and faster internet processing. It also needs a keyboard (which leaves out Samsung). It needs a more compact form factor (as I undersand the new Treo will be thinner than the present one is). Finally it needs superior software integration (which seems to me to leave out Nokia's new product according to Walt Mossberg).

    What have I missed or evaluated improperly. Where do you think the strongest competition will come from and why?
  2. #2  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    What products either currently available or upcoming do you think will offer serious competition to the upcoming Treo?

    To compete it seems the product needs a higher speed cpu to support a superior screen and faster internet processing. It also needs a keyboard (which leaves out Samsung). It needs a more compact form factor (as I undersand the new Treo will be thinner than the present one is). Finally it needs superior software integration (which seems to me to leave out Nokia's new product according to Walt Mossberg).

    What have I missed or evaluated improperly. Where do you think the strongest competition will come from and why?
    Given your list of requirements (esp. keyboard) the Tungsten W looks to be the only serious competition. The TW has some serious caveats though -- no built-in speaker and mic for phone use (have to use headset or alt attachment), and only choice of carrier is AT&T at the moment.
    go.digital
  3. #3  
    The Tungsten W fails in one aspect I consider crucial for my next device... it still has a 33 MHz processor. I've said this before... go try web browsing in a Tungsten C and see how amazing it is with the faster processor (and thanks to that, much improved web browser). I'm not saying the next device has to be 400MHz like the C, but it certainly has to be ARM and 133MHz+.

    Also, I can't find any info on whether or not the W's keyboard is backlit. I switched from a Treo 180 to a Treo 270 solely for that reason.
    Units - Unit conversion for webOS!
    Treo 180->270->600->650->Blackberry Pearl->Palm Pre
  4. #4  
    Since there is LITERALLY zero information known about the...ahem..."TREO 2", it is silly in the extreme to try to decide how competitor can or cannt compete with it!

    As the saying goes...GIMMEEABREAK!
  5.    #5  
    I have some information from a reputable but unnamed source. The two strongest features are its excellent new screen, which I believe relates to the fact that it is a Palm OS 5.2 device, and the fact that it is thinner than the old treo. With the assumption in place that Hand has in fact delivered on a Palm OS 5 based cellphone, where will the competition come from?

    I couldn't think of any serious competitors. So I wondered if someone else knew who a "contender" would be? The funny thing is that the other Palm OS competitors have just gotten out their last generation products and so it will be hard for them to turn around anytime soon and bring out a new version that will make their newly released products obsolete before they have made any money to speak of.
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    I have some information from a reputable but unnamed source. The two strongest features are its excellent new screen, which I believe relates to the fact that it is a Palm OS 5.2 device, and the fact that it is thinner than the old treo. With the assumption in place that Hand has in fact delivered on a Palm OS 5 based cellphone, where will the competition come from?
    What does an excellent screen have to do with OS 5.x? Sony has been using transflecitve screens in their clies since OS 4.1 and later. Also, the T|W has a reflective screen, which although inferior to transflecitve, is still superior to the transmissive screens on the Treo...

    I couldn't think of any serious competitors. So I wondered if someone else knew who a "contender" would be? The funny thing is that the other Palm OS competitors have just gotten out their last generation products and so it will be hard for them to turn around anytime soon and bring out a new version that will make their newly released products obsolete before they have made any money to speak of.
    Here's a list of current PalmOS smartphone alternatives to Handspring's Treos:

    Kyocera 6035
    Kyocera 7135
    Samsung SPH-i300
    Samsung SPH-i330
    Samsumg SPH-i500
    Tungsten W
    Tungsten C w/VoIP (Gphone)
    Smasung SGH--500
    GSPDA Zircon
    GSPDA Onynx
    Weblink H500

    The only OS 5.x devices in this list are the T|C and SGH-i500. However the latter doesn't have a thumboard and the former is only equiped with integrated wifi (thus only VoIP phone functionality)...Thus to answer the original poster query: if you're looking for an Palm OS 5.x based smartphone w/integrated thumboard, transflective screen etc, there is NO other competition (currently). Thus HS seems to be the only show in town...until PSG gets it act together that is...

    Edit: I forgot to mention the H500 which indeed will have a thumboard, OS 5.x and color screen. The problem with this device is that it uses the Huntec Reflex 2-way messaging technology instead of gprs/cdma...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 05/30/2003 at 04:22 PM.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    Since there is LITERALLY zero information known about the...ahem..."TREO 2", it is silly in the extreme to try to decide how competitor can or cannt compete with it!

    As the saying goes...GIMMEEABREAK!
    i was going to write the same thing.

    :-)
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  8.    #8  
    I expect you will have a better description of the new Treo over the weekend. Thanks for your suggestions.
  9. #9  
    This is entirely an opinion piece seeing as everyone's needs are different. For some people's needs, there already exists smartphones which are better than the current Treo and probably better than the next-gen Treo. Some people want a hard decently-sized numeric keypad and want to listen to MP3s. For them, the Kyocera 7135 might be best. For others, they may want the PPC OS and a larger (physically) screen and a T-Mobile PPC Phone may be best for them.

    IMO, here's what's currently out (or coming soon) that intrigues me most:
    1) The Nokia 3650 (see my site for more details if you're not familiar with it). It doesn't have a thumbboard and, in fact, has a very odd circular numeric keypad. It runs the Symbian Series 60 OS. It has a camera capable of taking video clips with sound. It has a full-blown very capable PIM capable of syncing with MS Outlook. It also has Bluetooth.

    2) The color Danger Hiptop/Sidekick. The thumbboard is bigger and more comfortable than the Treo's. It's a brand new OS/GUI (relatively speaking) that was built from the ground up for the type of device that it is (contrasted with the Treo's OS which was originally designed for text input via Graffiti and various other input using the stylus which has been morphed incompletely into a thumbboard-based input system). It has a camera add-on (tiny) which currently takes pretty lousy and very small pictures, but the color Hiptop is supposed to be able to take somewhat larger pictures.

    I guess I'm probably interested in the Samsung SGH-500 since it packs so many things into it (Palm OS5, camera, etc.) but I tend to think that the screen will be too small to be usable for Graffiti (it'll probably even be hard just to tap buttons on screen).

    One rumor had Palm coming out with an updated Tungsten W which added Wi-Fi in addition to cellular. I'm not sure I care about that, but some people might.

    Again, though, it really depends on what you need/want. I'm still clinging to the idea that the ultimate communications device requires a thumbboard.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  10.    #10  
    Some good points Scott.

    My viewpoint is that when the convergent cellphone reaches a mainstream audience, web browsing and email will be important. This means a keyboard, a quality screen will also be important, and a smaller form factor is always important. The speed of the cpu will affect the time it takes to do web browsing and it too will be critical.

    So while I agree that there is no perfect device, I do think that the convergent cellphone is evolving into an area wherein anyone who doesn't provide a keyboard has simply missed the boat.

    In the palm Os, two companies have missed the boat because it took them so long to release their last generation products that they will have difficulty replacing products which haven't really started selling yet. The third company, Samsung, has a product on the drawing boards which also misses the mark because of the lack of keyboards.

    For the mainstream product I am visualizing, assuming Hand is there, and I think it is, no one else is even remotely close as far as I can see.
  11. #11  
    rvwink, are you only concerned about Palm OS devices? I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the upcoming color Danger Hiptop.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    I expect you will have a better description of the new Treo over the weekend. Thanks for your suggestions.
    I hope so. Otherwise I will have some kind of nervous break down soon. For some reason, these devices are like an addiction, and we all can't seem to get enough.

    If the group on this board were ever somehow engaged in dialogue by Handspring, I bet they would pick up some incredible ideas. It would be the ultimate Customer focus group. Doubt they even read this board though.

    If they're smart they'll let us all be beta test participants.

    HRB
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by rbrar
    If the group on this board were ever somehow engaged in dialogue by Handspring, I bet they would pick up some incredible ideas. It would be the ultimate Customer focus group. Doubt they even read this board though.
    I'd be shocked if they didn't have some folks who's job included reading up on the various forums, and this would be on the top of their list. As you said, just reading through complaints (not to mention ideas for improvements) would help them build a better next-gen product.

    Originally posted by rbrar
    If they're smart they'll let us all be beta test participants.
    That's the part that does amaze me. You'd think some of the people who post to sites with intelligent ideas would be tapped on the shoulder by various companies, but I never hear about this happening.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    Since there is LITERALLY zero information known about the...ahem..."TREO 2", it is silly in the extreme to try to decide how competitor can or cannt compete with it!
    As the saying goes...GIMMEEABREAK!
    "Zero information" is not entirely correct, besides, it is still fun to fantasize: Most threads related to the "New Treo" here are based on a wish list; Treo users have high standards, you know.
    m00se
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
    -Mark Twain
  15.    #15  
    We now have a much more accurate list of features for the new Treo. I again ask all comers to please post where you think the lion's share of the competition is going to come from?
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    We now have a much more accurate list of features for the new Treo. I again ask all comers to please post where you think the lion's share of the competition is going to come from?
    My two cents:

    The Danger Hiptop is arguably a better data-centered device than the Treo due to its larger, more comfortable thumbboard. It was also designed from the ground up to do what it does and it does it pretty well. It's OS can multitask so, for instance, you can have your IM client open while you browse the web or check email and you'll be notified if someone wants to chat. Negative aspects: It's not a great phone (but you can hold it up to your ear, so it's a better phone than the Tungsten W, for instance). The built-in camera is poor and although the newer color devices will have a higher-res camera, some of the pictures I've seen seem to indicate that it will still be poor (though who knows if the camera on the upcoming Treo will be any better). It also doesn't have nearly the library of applications that the Palm OS has.

    The Nokia 3650 is a better phone-centered device. The camera is actually pretty good. It has Bluetooth. The Symbian OS it is based on has a pretty good library of apps and it, too, can multitask.

    The other thing that both of these devices have in common are great prices. It remains to be seen what the color Hiptop (known as the Sidekick through T-Mobile) will sell for, but the B&W model can be had for free, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the color model sold for $150 or so after rebates. The Nokia 3650 can be had for $150 after rebates through AT&T or for free through T-Mobile.

    The new Treo looks like it will rest somewhere in between. The OS was never originally designed to do what they are now doing with it, so they've had to hack at it to accommodate this. It has neither a good phone keypad, nor a good thumbboard. On the plus side, it looks like it will have a higher-res touch-screen and a huge library of applications. If the audio output is stereo, it should also be capable of decent (or better) MP3 playback (the Nokia 3650 can play MP3s with a 3rd party app, but only in mono).

    I think that about covers it.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    The new Treo looks like it will rest somewhere in between. The OS was never originally designed to do what they are now doing with it, so they've had to hack at it to accommodate this.
    The only remnant of Palm-ish behavior that still bugs me is the Service Connection Progress dialog. I wish they'd get rid of that thing and do the #777 dialing or whatnot in the background, or figure out a way to make it quicker. I'm anxiously awaiting the June 18th firmware fixes to see if I can finally leave it always-on.

    I actually wonder what the heck dialing #777 even does. Seems like a placebo or something considering the data can at times be somewhat robust when weaving in and out of coverage.
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by potatoho
    I'm anxiously awaiting the June 18th firmware fixes to see if I can finally leave it always-on.
    What you talkin' 'bout Willis? What's coming out on 6/18?

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    What you talkin' 'bout Willis? What's coming out on 6/18?
    The most important thing EVER!! The 1.21 firmware to fix all these dag-blasted Treo 300 radio bugs.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...5&pagenumber=8
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by potatoho

    The most important thing EVER!! The 1.21 firmware to fix all these dag-blasted Treo 300 radio bugs.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...5&pagenumber=8
    Ah yes, that thread. I think I tuned out the date that was mentioned there given all of the other misinformation that was mixed in. Tell me, do you really believe that this will happen on 6/18?

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
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