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  1. #21  
    > ...Don't you think there are 5 or 6 companies out there
    > salivating to get their hands on Hand ??...

    Actually - no!

    HAND has nothing to offer other companies other than a few key developers at best - much cheaper just to hire those developers away than to buy the whole kit and kaboodle!

    It is to be remembered that just about everything HAND does is farmed out to other companies - communication modules (Airprime), operating system (PalmSource), production (Solectron), distribution (Brightstar?), TreoMail (Visto - yup, even that), etc etc etc.
  2. #22  
    They have 250 employees. If everything is farmed out, what do the employees do?
  3. #23  
    > They have 250 employees. If everything is farmed out, what do
    > the employees do?...

    That's actually a question that has been posed elsewhere!

    If we only look at the Vice President level they have =7=, or one Vice President for every 34 to 35 people!

    Right off the top it looks like they're kinda heavy with Admin people, the first to go in any takeover/merger.

    In any case, they have 150 million or so shares outstanding - a purchase at, say, $1/share seems kinda expensive when you translate it into cost/critical-employee, no?
  4. pabo's Avatar
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    #24  
    where do you think the Pilot was when it was sold - It had all that and less (no one ever heard ot it).... The only unusual thing about the Pilot, other than its proprietary (at the time) OS was grafitti. Do you think grafitti was the reason for the overall success ??

    If all they have is a couple key developers, why don't those guys go and start their own business. You make it sound pretty easy.

    I go back to buy low, sell high. It is easy to pile on right now, but winners figure out how to win - don't forget Dubinsky and Hawkins started this whole thing. Despite how badly the PPC wants to be a Palm, it's not and never will be - look at market share after all this time. Hawkins avoided the one mistake Apple made. Had they licensed the OS, they might have a much bigger market share right now.
  5. pabo's Avatar
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    #25  
    "$1/share seems kinda expensive when you translate it into cost/critical-employee, no?..............."


    Never thought of using that as a metric for company performance. Where would General Electric fall under Jack Welch ??

    It's about vision - imho. Link that with previous track record, focus and dedication - that makes me think $1 is cheap.

    An associate of mine bought Palm on day 1 at $112/share..... now that was a mistake.
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    #26  
    sorry, just had 2 cups of coffee......

    further, the 500 pound gorilla, Palm is showing little aggressive creativity, ie, the T-W doesn't even have OS5 and is bigger (physically) than the Treo. My bet is the next gen Treo is going to embarass the others and secure a big chunk of folks. Remember there is a deal going down to license the RIM technology. Once you have that on a Treo, we may not even need anything else.

    All the mjor phone vendors are more interested in putting the coolest camera in their phone - they have been moved to comodity status.

    IF the next gen Treo is so so......sell the stock.
  7. #27  
    seems ot be when the next gen will come out. If it comes out soon enough, it could save the company, but will it come out soon enough. There isn't even a filing with teh FCC yet, and no photos floating aorund, which usually come up a few months before the thing goes on sale, so we cna at least think of a date like September or October.

    I think that is too long in the current economy and state of HAND.

    I hope I am wrong.
  8. #28  
    Originally posted by pabo
    A little history lesson -
    ...
    Not that many years later, the Palm is, by far, the defacto standard for handheld computing.
    ...
    Don't you think there are 5 or 6 companies out there salivating to get their hands on Hand ??
    Apples and oranges. Back when 3Com bought USR (and, hence, Palm), they were buying all of Palm. Today, there are several licensees and Handspring is but one of them. Hawkins and company no longer control the OS, either. What does Handspring have to offer buyers (of the company, that is)? A very good product. The best convergence product, probably. But that's not enough. If PalmSG put a little more emphasis on usability, they could, with only minor changes, improve the T|W enough to make it on par or better than Handspring's device. It's already rumored that there is a T|C in the wings which integrates cellular (in addition to Wi-Fi). That would, of course, be an OS5 device with SDIO. I don't particularly care about having integrated Wi-Fi, but my point is that Palm doesn't need to change much to eat farther into Handspring's marketshare.

    Part of me thinks that Handspring would have been better off if they started (a couple of years ago) to create a brand spanking new OS which was optimized for the smartphone concept. Yes, they would lose the compatibility with the huge Palm OS library, but they could have a device which would truly be a killer smartphone platform and would have something to offer potential buyers if they went bankrupt in the process. If they went bankrupt today, would someone buy them and make use of the current Treo (and possibly the supposed upcoming one)? Sure, but probably not for as much as you think.

    Scott
  9. #29  
    This conversation is a great example of why financial analysts have such a hard time figuring out proper valuations for companies these days. The best assets HS has are named Dubinsky, Hawkins and Colligan.

    Delisting would be bad, but this has been for all intents and purposes a closely held corporation between these three. I haven't looked to see if the three of them actually hold 50%+1 of the stock, but I'm certain they hold enough to do pretty much whatever they want.

    I think they went all out into communicators because they have finite resources to put into development and production of devices. The non-connected PDA's are pretty much already commoditized, except for a few freaky things put out by Sony, one is not a lot different than another and there is tremendous price pressure. Plus, any real advancements are going to come in the area of wireless connectivity.

    If they hit a homerun with the next gen Treo, I think carriers will be beating down their doors to sign up as Tier 1 partners. If they hit at least a double, I suspect they'll sign up enough Tier 1 partners to get another couple at bats.

    JMHO

    Gargoyle
  10. #30  
    last time i checked donna, jeff, and ed owned about 65% of shares (about 1 month ago). i think all of them are on the board of directors also (at least i know donna and jeff are). Remember donna and jeff's goal is to make HAND into a MS, IBM type company. I have an article somewhere (in my HD) in which donna says they want to be the largest co, while Hawkins corrects her and says they want to produce the most useful product that will make them into that large co. So the treo is not their final product, but a step in the process of building a business powerhouse . . . in '02 Jeff was talking about the company 10 years from then (2012) (another article somewhere in my comp, ill find it if u really want me to). So the treo would just be the beginning. But they do need to get cash positive soon - the treo is their plan to do that.

    I agree w/ an above poster, saying they dont need a homerun, but at least a double. Microsoft just struck out (w/t-mobile), and now hands at the plate. The treo is at bat; and the treo gets to use a aluminum bat, while others are using wood.

    All i know is that i am extremely excited about the next gen treo. ill be buying one. My wife and i cant do w/o our treo 300s.

    Once again we will lose a great deal, if hand goes OOB, or is bought out. nothing compares to their products, i look forward to their future.

    Could HAND be a DELL one day? (minus the pc boxes they make). HAND has a vision (think of their premature office leasing agreements, they got ahead of themselves).
  11.    #31  
    Originally posted by craigdts
    last time i checked donna, jeff, and ed owned about 65% of shares (about 1 month ago).
    Actually, between Jeff Hawkins, Donna Dubinsky and Edward Colligan they own 38.1% of the outstanding shares of the company.
    Originally posted by craigdts

    I agree w/ an above poster, saying they dont need a homerun, but at least a double. Microsoft just struck out (w/t-mobile), and now hands at the plate. The treo is at bat; and the treo gets to use a aluminum bat, while others are using wood.
    Why do you say that? Seems to me that Handspring is at a severe disadvantage. Trying to conserve cash is a horrible thing when you are an intellectual property company.
    Originally posted by craigdts

    Could HAND be a DELL one day? (minus the pc boxes they make). HAND has a vision (think of their premature office leasing agreements, they got ahead of themselves).
    Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Dell is the anti-Handspring. They concentrate on commoditization of public knowledge. Handspring concentrates on creation of protected property and rue the day their devices are copied. You cannot be more wrong on this issue.
  12. #32  
    FYI

    HS's largest Share Holders:

    1.Company: Benchmark Capital Management Company II, L.L.C. with 4,533,214 shares.

    2.Mutual fund: Oppenheimer Main Street Growth & Income Fund with 472,900 shares.


    Want to help HS? Start buying shares
    m00se
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
    -Mark Twain
  13.    #33  
    Originally posted by m00se
    FYI

    HS's largest Share Holders:

    1.Company: Benchmark Capital Management Company II, L.L.C. with 4,533,214 shares.

    2.Mutual fund: Oppenheimer Main Street Growth & Income Fund with 472,900 shares.


    Want to help HS? Start buying shares
    m00se
    Actually that is not true (both things). First, Jeff Hawkins owns the most shares (39,715,508) (Benchmark is 4th behind Hawkins, Dubinsky and Kleiner Perkins Capital Management). Second, buying shares in the secondary market doesn't help Handspring. Only in a very indirect way does it help them.
  14. #34  
    but if you buy enough to increase the price, you'll be helping me!
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by JDave
    seems ot be when the next gen will come out. If it comes out soon enough, it could save the company, but will it come out soon enough. There isn't even a filing with teh FCC yet, and no photos floating aorund, which usually come up a few months before the thing goes on sale, so we cna at least think of a date like September or October.

    I think that is too long in the current economy and state of HAND.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I believe that companies can ask the FCC not to release filing information to their website until a specific date. Go through the previous filings of the existing Treo's and you'll see that HS submitted requests to keep the information off the web site until specific dates.

    So the fact that there is nothing on the public web sites doesn't mean that nothing has been filed. This only makes sense. Companies would lose a lot of competitive advantage if their prototypes kept showing up in public web sites!
  16. tarfin's Avatar
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    #36  
    Silverado can you show me an example of the info being withheld?

    Thanks!
  17. #37  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    Actually that is not true (both things). First, Jeff Hawkins owns the most shares (39,715,508) (Benchmark is 4th behind Hawkins, Dubinsky and Kleiner Perkins Capital Management). Second, buying shares in the secondary market doesn't help Handspring. Only in a very indirect way does it help them.
    Here's my information, and the link below to prove it:

    Top Individual Holder:
    Hawkins, Jeffrey 37,292,558

    Top Institutional Holder:
    BENCHMARK CAPITAL MGMT  4,533,214

    (Please note that in my previous thread I specifically said "Company" not "Individual," never disputing Mr. Hawkins' impressive number of shares.)

    Link:
    http://quicken.multexinvestor.com/MG...er&Ticker=HAND

    m00se
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
    -Mark Twain
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by tarfin
    Silverado can you show me an example of the info being withheld?

    Thanks!
    Tarfin:

    In order to show you the examples (which I've found myself in the past), I'd have to re-do the following process:

    - Search this board for references to the FCC web pages that show FCC submissions/acceptances.
    - Go to the Handspring submissions and browse through the multiple documents (and pictures) for the three products (180, 270 and 300). Some of the letters there either expecitly ask for hiding or refer to others that asked for hiding.

    So I trust you can do this instead and ind the information

    Good luck.
  19. #39  
    Go here and in the FCC ID field type in "o8f" (oh eight eff):

    -- http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid/

    That will display a list of filings, the Detail version of each is the most interesting and contains the Confidentiality requests, etc.

    The one dated July 2002 is for the TREO 300.

    Anything LATER than July 2002 would be of supreme interest - one will show up eventually.
  20. #40  
    SeldomVisitor, how do you get the FCC ID for a company? I'd like to do some searches for other companies as well. Thanks,

    Scott
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