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  1.    #1  
    I stumbled upon this "silicon anode li-polymer battery" while speaking with a friend about his phone ( he claims a very long time btw charges . ThL 5000 MTK6592 Octa core Android 4.4 2GB 32GB Smartphone 5.0 Inch 5000mAh ).

    If they are really 4 times the cell power in the same space used by a standard battery I'm wondering if we could get , dunno, pre 2 / pre 3 batteries in the same volume of a normal 1280 (for pre3) but with instead around 3000 or more capacity.

    (same reasoning can be easily applied to touchpads, too)

    Comments ? Feasible ?
  2. #2  
    I don't know the specifics of this technology, but the downside of Li-Po batteries in general is that they catch fire when cracks develop in the battery substrate after a particularly bad drop. So, the battery would have to be mounted and insulated a bit better to avoid accidents of this sort

    Other than that, i welcome any improvement in battery technology
    ...
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    I stumbled upon this "silicon anode li-polymer battery" while speaking with a friend about his phone ( he claims a very long time btw charges . ThL 5000 MTK6592 Octa core Android 4.4 2GB 32GB Smartphone 5.0 Inch 5000mAh ).

    If they are really 4 times the cell power in the same space used by a standard battery I'm wondering if we could get , dunno, pre 2 / pre 3 batteries in the same volume of a normal 1280 (for pre3) but with instead around 3000 or more capacity.

    (same reasoning can be easily applied to touchpads, too)

    Comments ? Feasible ?
    I doubt the Chinese manufactures would use such technology in a MTK chipset mobile phone, usually those batteries are cheapest ones. But for this one can be possibile while the price for the phone is quite high.
    But comparing the size of the battery to the size of the phone, the battery is really large, so they can make a high capacity, but I doubt 5000 mA
    I got a few cells made by Amprius Silicon Valley in 2014 for testing purposes (they were Li-Ion), the capacity was higher, but not 4 times, it was like 20-30 % higher than ordinary LiIon cell. If they make a cell which will fit the Pre 3 size than it can be easily done.
    I have decoded algoritm for Pre 3 authentication IC. So the only thing which need to be done is to change the cellI , but I doubt the 20% more is worth the effort.
    I made some Pre 3 batteries in 2012.
    HP Pre 3 replacement battery with same spec as original (touchstone compatibile)
    Remy X, dkirker and coolmanqazi like this.
  4. #4  
    well if these are really LiPOs you want to put in your pants, i would, before thinking about that, enter "lipo fire" into youtube and enjoy.


    btw. i have a LipoSack called save bag to savely countiniouly charge my old pre in the car (acting as App to auto-send position via SMS? (car theft detection) )
    Remy X likes this.
  5.    #5  
    ah hops... well, didn't know (and didn't research) about the possible fire hazards. Have to admit that the mirage of having maybe 2500ma packed in the 1280ma standard battery was too tempting
    Right now with a battery down to 1084 after 3 years of usage, I can still do 6% in 10h of idle usage...

    ps
    I'm a belt pouch user... will never put a phone inside pants nor a suit pocket. I've always had an hard time understanding why the use of pockets
    Last edited by mazzinia; 01/15/2015 at 03:48 PM.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumy View Post
    I have decoded algoritm for Pre 3 authentication IC.
    Does that mean it would be possible to add Pre3 support in Dr. Battery for recalibration?

    EDIT: I guess I don't even remember the "why" as to why the Pre3/Veer/Touchpad weren't supported. :P Time to clear some cobwebs in my brain.
    Last edited by dkirker; 01/15/2015 at 04:02 PM.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    Does that mean it would be possible to add Pre3 support in Dr. Battery for recalibration?

    EDIT: I guess I don't even remember the "why" as to why the Pre3/Veer/Touchpad weren't supported. :P Time to clear some cobwebs in my brain.
    Very good point.. adding recalibration support would be very useful. By memory the issue was that they used the A6 (?) chip to control the battery, and there were no info on how to access it

    Btw
    Enevate Announces HD-Energy® Technology for Li-ion Batteries | Enevate Corporation
    li ion polymer batteries of new design, apparenly silicon anode based, and promising a 4x boost
    dkirker likes this.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    Does that mean it would be possible to add Pre3 support in Dr. Battery for recalibration?

    EDIT: I guess I don't even remember the "why" as to why the Pre3/Veer/Touchpad weren't supported. :P Time to clear some cobwebs in my brain.
    Probably that would be possible. They use security IC on the PCB of the battery. Probably that secuirty IC is talking to A6 in device. Bootie has basic commands to talk to battery. I haven't go so far, except of copying the protection IC content to empty protection IC. There was no interest in batteries as they were made by Chinese manufacutrers (Mugen) after that, so I just made a few for myself.
  9.    #9  
    Your price was better than the one proposed by Mugen (don't remember if back then they made offers), I think
  10. #10  
    I don't know how frequent any offers are, but I notice Mugen are offering 15% off for the next 21 hours. (Until roughly 0700 GMT Tomorrow)
    The banner & timer are at the top of the page: "CYBERPOWER"
    http://mugen.co/
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    I don't know how frequent any offers are, but I notice Mugen are offering 15% off for the next 21 hours. (Until roughly 0700 GMT Tomorrow)
    The banner & timer are at the top of the page: "CYBERPOWER"
    Mugen Power Batteries - Official Website
    I am checking if the supplier still have plastic and empty IC needed to make Pre 3 battery.
    Mine old batteries are also not as "strong" as before. It is 3 years since that battery project. 2 years ago Samsung ICP474350N cell used in original batteries was not available (I was trying to get them a few times), I hope they are now or some other cell with higher capacity. Will look in to that too.
    dkirker and coolmanqazi like this.
  12.    #12  
    After 3 years, what's the capacity left in the batteries you made ? ( out of curiosity to compare to the loss the stock sold with the phone one had )
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumy View Post
    I am checking if the supplier still have plastic and empty IC needed to make Pre 3 battery.
    Mine old batteries are also not as "strong" as before. It is 3 years since that battery project. 2 years ago Samsung ICP474350N cell used in original batteries was not available (I was trying to get them a few times), I hope they are now or some other cell with higher capacity. Will look in to that too.
    Samsung ICP474350N is still not available for small quantity like 50 or 100 pcs, they all request 1000 pcs or 2000 pcs which is way to high for us, other parts are OK.

    Currently available cells are from Sinowatt which are quite good. I also used them to make first samples in 2011 HP Pre 3 replacement battery with same spec as original (touchstone compatibile) and they are still working quite well (lost about 150--200 mAh in 3 years) from original capacity 1100mAh.
    Now distributer of Sinowatt is offering capacity of 1200mAh (reall capacity) for the same size as before. They could be integrated in the same plastic frame as samples shown on my previous photos in previous post.
    There is one new option to get 1300mah (100mAh more, but with other larger cell), low temperature injection for top and lower plastic frame, as used in original Samsung batteries. With this technique you get more space for cell as the PCB is injected in the top part of the frame. So this would be the higher real capacity which can be packed in the same size as original Pre 3 battery.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    After 3 years, what's the capacity left in the batteries you made ? ( out of curiosity to compare to the loss the stock sold with the phone one had )
    Batteries with Sinowatt cells lost about 150--200 mAh in 3 years from original capacity 1100mAh, I need to check about Samsung ones.
    Last edited by Sumy; 01/21/2015 at 11:23 AM.
  15.    #15  
    Thanks.
    An original samsung based pre3, here, lost 134mAh over a bit more than 3 years. One is not exactly a good way to compare, but looks like samsung is slightly better
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by mazzinia View Post
    Thanks.
    An original samsung based pre3, here, lost 134mAh over a bit more than 3 years. One is not exactly a good way to compare, but looks like samsung is slightly better
    Yes, they are better, that's why I want Samsung ones, but they are hard to get in small quantites.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumy View Post
    I am checking if the supplier still have plastic and empty IC needed to make Pre 3 battery.
    Mine old batteries are also not as "strong" as before. It is 3 years since that battery project. 2 years ago Samsung ICP474350N cell used in original batteries was not available (I was trying to get them a few times), I hope they are now or some other cell with higher capacity. Will look in to that too.
    I will be making one batch of Pre 3 batteries with 1300mAh soon with Sinowatt cells which are available and reliable and PCB with original HP IC (now original IC's are available, production surplus, as HP let down manufactures, they put components on sale to get at lest some money back)
  18. #18  
    I saw this: Alcatel One Touch Power Bank - Red : All Accessories

    I'm trying to work it out. I thought the suction cups were to attach to the device, but it says they are to attach your device to any surface... so you can attach the battery pack to any surface, but how do you attach the phone to the battery pack (other than the usb cable, which probably is not meant to securely hold the weight of a phone). I know: Stick the battery to the wall and the phone on a nearby flat surface, but if you have a flat surface, you can put both items on it!

    I've seen Iphone battery packs that are like a large case - I always smile when I think that the manufacturers fight to sell super slim phones to people who then wrap them in large casings.

    Anyway, I got to thinking, "Why not use magnets to attach the pack to the device?" The problem is that you need a casing that is magnetic or a device with magnets in it...

    So, what if a battery pack was made with a curved surface to fit a webOS phone? What if it had magnets to hold it in place? A short cable could come from the side to connect to the USB and supply power.

    But if you wanted to be REALLY ambitious, you could enable the pack to charge the phone wirelessly and even charge the pack itself wirelessly with a touchstone! Of course, all these wireless charging stages add up the inefficiencies.

    A simpler thought is to have a box shaped battery with a USB cable that carries the correct charge and voltage to power a touchstone - battery-powered wireless charging: Place the box on a surface, stick the TS on top, plug in and sit your phone on it! ;-)

    Of course, when your device has a removable battery, simply buying a spare is the easiest option... ;-)

    I'm not planning to make any of the ideas above and they are perhaps pointless, but if anyone is making battery solutions, feel free to take those ideas if you like them.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumy View Post
    I will be making one batch of Pre 3 batteries with 1300mAh soon with Sinowatt cells which are available and reliable and PCB with original HP IC (now original IC's are available, production surplus, as HP let down manufactures, they put components on sale to get at lest some money back)
    Batteries are ready now, i will test them for a week or so. Attached are photos of original design I made and photo of real battery.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  20. #20  
    Great. When will you do business trip to Shengzhen city ?
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