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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by mpcollins View Post
    A phrase just came to mind: It's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
    [...]
    Thank you. That's a very common sense way to look at it. Because asking for permission doesn't guarantee a positive outcome, especially not with lawyers. To quote Roy Sutton (aka Pre101), in his "open-sourcing of webOS" talk at SCaLE (available on YouTube), the lawyers' default answer is always no. That if they say no, nothing bad happens, supposedly.

    So this inertia and deeply ingrained thinking that the webOS engineers had to struggle against, is likely to be 5x stronger when it comes to us, someone who's not even on the payroll. Full permission is a snowflake's chance in hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpcollins View Post
    [...]

    If it turns out we are in error, we deal with the consequences then.

    [...]
    Yeah. The worst we'd ever see is a standard, fill-in-the-blank nastygram from HP, saying that we aren't licensed to host their materials. Unauthorized distribution of apps is a criminal offense if the owner decides to press charges, but unauthorized distribution of Doctors/ROMs is simply a breach of civil contract, of the EULA. Copyrights aside, we are talking about an OEM device repair tool that was granted to us ("customers") by the manufacturer, and its a tool with very narrow use. The specific Palm ROMs are only usable on a specific set of Palm phones, and those phones won't run any other OS. We own the phones and if someone "accidentally" shares recovery tools, no one will come and bust down our doors. There's simply no money in that, no loss of revenue to be claimed for a dead product, already written off by its current "OEM".
    ...
  2. #62  
    ..especially when the OEM has no alternative products for sale...
  3. #63  
    Aren't there guys that our former leader knows that he can perhaps talk to about this informally? Perhaps talking to LG about some of this since they now own it? I would think they would want to buld a relationship with us as we are such advocates for WebOS. It would surely be a sign of goodwill and not cost them anything but some of their time.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by joeytino View Post
    Aren't there guys that our former leader knows that he can perhaps talk to about this informally? Perhaps talking to LG about some of this since they now own it? I would think they would want to buld a relationship with us as we are such advocates for WebOS. It would surely be a sign of goodwill and not cost them anything but some of their time.
    Time costs a lot of money when you're talking about lawyer man-hours.

    The issue, unfortunately, is licensing. The old stuff is licensed to HP/Palm by various third parties, like app devs and hardware manufacturers. In acquiring Palm, HP had inherited its IP and license agreements, so it is responsible for following them through. LG bough the Palm dev team and future rights to the webOS codebase, but they didn't buy the legacy stuff. They didn't take on the old contracts that Palm had entered into.

    Basically, in legal parlance, LG has all the assets going forward, HP has all the liabilities. Stewardship of EOL hardware isn't something that LG would ever want to take on and the community must take care of itself.


    Everything begins and ends with lawyers.
    ...
  5. #65  
    While a public place hosting the needed doctors etc would be nice, it has seemingly always been the policy of this forum to allow people to communicate via PM what they need for help. ex. put up a request for a doctor on the forum, and get an answer about where to obtain said doctor in a PM. I for one have no problem helping someone that needs something that I have and have given people 2.2.4 for veer doctors many times via PM here. Just a thought.
    TJs11thPre likes this.
  6. #66  
    That's great. And you can continue to do exactly that.

    But some people here are suggesting building something new in response to this event announced by Hp. And i think that's great and kudos if they do exactly that.

    That event is being seen by some as a signal that a more easily accessible way of sharing files could be allowed to operate. Easy as in, any new person coming to this forum can access the same information at their discretion, rather than say, at yours. The day you're no longer here to be your generous self, then what? So these efforts are a very smart response to a need for continuity archives by a diligent community.

    It's also being seen by some as the best opportunity to rally a surge in support for legacy webOS. Possibility attracting some new development, or at the least, some renewed commitment to supporting existing releases rather than letting them die.

    I'm all for supporting development when it comes to webOS. I wish everyone here was as committed to it as much as some clearly are.

    Meanwhile, this message from Hp, essentially saying "hey we are turning out the lights whether you are in here or not". It's clearly not a signal to come asking for handouts. It seems more a time for hoping they just don't notice us anymore while we do our own thing, before THAT is no longer possible.

    The secretive PM sharing that's worked for you to date, cannot work for everyone. And it does not foster growth and collaboration. App devs want their work in a paid app cat, not pm'd and paypal'd. So hopefully something will develop positively to fill the void and other collaborations will also come to light. Hopefully webOS will endure thanks to these community efforts coming into their own.
    Sporting my 13th Pre device, a NOS unlocked ROW Pre3!
    Remy X likes this.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by joeytino View Post
    Aren't there guys that our former leader knows that he can perhaps talk to about this informally? Perhaps talking to LG about some of this since they now own it? I would think they would want to buld a relationship with us as we are such advocates for WebOS. It would surely be a sign of goodwill and not cost them anything but some of their time.
    Do you know a guy?

    I don't know a guy.

    The last person here who talked to a guy said there ain't nothing left. That was recent too.

    All the guys who cared left the places where anything could be done. All the people remaining, don't care, or don't know.

    And no i do not think they would want to build a relationship with us. We are the past, not the future. If they wanted input from those with legacy webOS values, i think they would have kept those people they hired who just bailed out of there. Good Will? Good Will is donating hardware to schools. Not appeasing a couple hundred geeks who like one particular old phone. The cost of their time is much greater in their eyes than in yours or any of ours. I mean come on. No one cares anymore man! Except us!

    This all seems pretty cut n dry to me, Joe. I think we are SOL as far as hp is concerned, and we need to figure on supporting the dudes here that are building real sh!+ that's actually keeping our phones alive on a daily basis. It's these guys in here keeping us connected to Google, not hp. Not even Google! Id like to see a way to get easy, continuous access to homebrew paid and free apps. Is this not the best outcome to wish for in reality?

    The only guys coming to bat for us anymore are right here working on it. Sad but true. And I'd love to be wrong on this one. But we know better by now! I hate hp for a reason! We all do! F them!
    i need a beer.

    I wish we could all have a pitcher. I'm jealous of that Chicago group that can still meet up. Kudos to them. OK fri nite I'm going for a beer. Ciao.
    Sporting my 13th Pre device, a NOS unlocked ROW Pre3!
  8. #68  
    Thing is this site may not even be here to be able to send personal messages. I think once someone said they just doing us a favor.

    And who is the former leader of which we speak? I don't recall anyone officially leaving since Deiter
    Remy X and petbull like this.
  9.    #69  
    We only have former leaders!
    TJs11thPre likes this.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    We only have former leaders!
    I'm heading to the Bier Stube to watch football all day and maybe, just maybe, drink a bunch of beers. I'll be your leader and, if you want, you can follow me!

    As a matter of fact, It will be the first ever Columbus Webos meet up! Today, we will be discussing the advantages and disadvantages of the new Pre3 i just got vs my old war horse Veer. Also, I will be conducting a study of how alcohol affects the key board on each. At the end of the day, we will experiment with which phone works better in calling my wife and begging for a ride home. Finally, we will test the aerodynamics of each phone as they are thrown at me by the aforementioned wife.

    Wow! With such an exciting and full agenda, I believe that I will have to move the start time from 1PM to 12PM.

    See you there!
    Last edited by petbull; 11/08/2014 at 08:38 AM. Reason: agenda additions
    TJs11thPre and Preemptive like this.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    We only have former leaders!
    Preemptive for president.
    Follow me on Twitter
    For the latest webOS news check out pivotCE
    lc_lol likes this.
  12. #72  
    You guys are right!. I just hate the fact that all of this stuff that we can use and costs nothing is heading for the dumpster for all intents and purposes and it just kills me. Still idealistic in my 40's...

    TJ we need to meet up at some point. IIRC you are in the ATL area...
    TJs11thPre likes this.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by joeytino View Post
    You guys are right!. I just hate the fact that all of this stuff that we can use and costs nothing is heading for the dumpster for all intents and purposes and it just kills me. Still idealistic in my 40's...

    TJ we need to meet up at some point. IIRC you are in the ATL area...
    I think we all hate that fact
    TJs11thPre likes this.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by joeytino View Post
    You guys are right!. I just hate the fact that all of this stuff that we can use and costs nothing is heading for the dumpster for all intents and purposes and it just kills me. Still idealistic in my 40's...

    TJ we need to meet up at some point. IIRC you are in the ATL area...
    I'm down to meet anytime! I tried a meet up once and one person came. It's rare to be talking webOS to ANYONE who actually knows what I'm talking about! B.s'd for about 2 hrs just talking about apps we liked. It was cool.

    I'm satisfied with the response we got already that pretty much said there's nothing to salvage. You read that thread right? So i don't expect there's even any webOS stress balls left in that joint as consolation prizes. I hate wasting what can still be used, but I suspect they've already cleaned house of webOS.
    Sporting my 13th Pre device, a NOS unlocked ROW Pre3!
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