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  1. tjgriffin's Avatar
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    #21  
    I guess HP is in the same bag as LG. I recall LG paid a one time fee to license WebOS in perpetuity. Sounds like Q owns the patents and HP is licensed to use them. Could/would Q release HW info that can make it possible to port Open WebOS to legacy devices? Maybe Q and LG will make a WebOS that will run Android apps, or an Android that has internal integration and multitasking features of WebOS. I think that just about uses up all my fantasy time for today...
  2. #22  
    Remember PalmOne and PalmSource? In this case Qualcomm would be PalmOne, and LG be PalmSource. If history repeats itself, at some time in the future Qualcomm and LG merges and Palm is spit back out in one piece again?
    ArchonAdvisors and Rnp like this.
  3. #23  
    It's funny, LG and Qualcomm are the co-founders of the Alliance AllSeen Alliance (https://allseenalliance.org/allseen/members). Are they planning to bring something webOS-based? Maybe "smart home"?

    The members of the AllSeen Alliance will contribute software and engineering resources as part of their collaboration on an open software framework that enables hardware manufacturers, service providers and software developers to create interoperable devices and services. This open source framework allows ad hoc systems to seamlessly discover, dynamically connect and interact with nearby products regardless of brand, transport layer, platform or operating system.
    Press - December 2013 | The Linux Foundation
    ArchonAdvisors likes this.
  4. #24  
    The fact that Rubinstein is now on the Qualcomm board cannot be coincidental...can it? Palm has had a unique history to say the least with Handsping and then the PalmSource/Palm one era and he of all people knows what those patents are....Theoretically, doesn't Qualcomm have essentially what made Palm Palm other than perhaps some trademarked names? And if so could not Ruby start putting the puzzle back together in a T2 sort of way? Perhaps not to the scale as it was but...the mind reels at the possibilities.
  5. #25  
    palm always been ahead of the marks. I remember in my treo 700 wx I already had office when no one had. watched movies when nobody did. I still have faith that resurgence in palm as the titan that is! the inscrutable.

    Enviado desde mi palm pre 2 usando Tapatalk
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMMan View Post
    Remember PalmOne and PalmSource? In this case Qualcomm would be PalmOne, and LG be PalmSource. If history repeats itself, at some time in the future Qualcomm and LG merges and Palm is spit back out in one piece again?
    That would be nuts!
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    That would be nuts!
    not that this made the world crazy! sorry for the off

    Enviado desde mi PAPYRE pad 715 usando Tapatalk 2
  8. #28  
    This is the real end, i guess...
  9. #29  
    Why do you say that? Rightly or wrongly, many predict that home automation / connectivity / the internet of things are the next big thing.

    The dumb state of the smart home | The Verge

    Google purchases Nest for $3.2 billion | The Verge

    https://allseenalliance.org/allseen/members

    If there is to be an interface, webOS is a credible candidate.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 01/25/2014 at 01:48 PM.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by joeytino View Post
    The fact that Rubinstein is now on the Qualcomm board cannot be coincidental...can it? Palm has had a unique history to say the least with Handsping and then the PalmSource/Palm one era and he of all people knows what those patents are....Theoretically, doesn't Qualcomm have essentially what made Palm Palm other than perhaps some trademarked names? And if so could not Ruby start putting the puzzle back together in a T2 sort of way? Perhaps not to the scale as it was but...the mind reels at the possibilities.
    I'm surprised more isn't made of this. Palm is Ruby's baby. The Palm Pre was his baby. So much of this OS is his baby. It was an unwell baby when HP came along to rescue it, almost killing it - but not quite - only because Internals, Ports & others have hung in there. Ruby has his opportunity right now. Whether he gets authorization, or this was the intent for some time, it can be his place to change webOS's history.
    .

    Isn't it interesting that webOS now has 3 players in on the same game - whatever their business strategy is. Less then 12 months ago LG officially started developing webOS from a HP license. Then HP dumps things off to Qualcomm, but not before retaining its own license (however things are arranged). That would be 3 big players with a stake in webOS.

    Whenever there's talk about an OS surviving, analysts see this world available to only a few players. On a planet with 6 billion people, no less. Go figure. For its part, Apple is in a world that others want a bigger stake. However that works out for their Opponents, this dominant OS is only available to one company. That leaves Android, with its sometimes fractured ways, to go along with the potential risk of Google taking the wrong road ahead.

    Android has a huge and popular following ..... And many players. That brings another difficulty for the new purveyors of webOS who've been engaged to Google's platform. The market for Android has become so competitive that margins are constantly squeezed. Apple makes its cash, because people will pay that “bonus fee“ ... just because it's Apple. For the 3 Amigos at the same party, this move gives them a chance to build another ecosystem based on webOS - a total control system featuring tvs, appliances, communication devices, mobile devices, and on and on.
    .

    Or maybe I`m missing something here. Why go to all this trouble just to keep your foot in the door.
    .
    ArchonAdvisors and Rnp like this.
  11. #31  
    Another opnion:

    Industry Analyst Jeff Kagan on Qualcomm Acquiring Palm Patents from HP
    "Qualcomm appears to be entering the device space once again first with Toq smartwatch and now with Palm patents," says Technology industry analyst Kagan.

    Qualcomm, which is a wireless phone and tablet chip making company, just acquired around 2,000 patents from Palm, which were owned by HP, says the Associated Press, Jan 24.

    Technology analyst Jeff Kagan offers comment.

    During the 1990’s, Qualcomm was in the wireless handset business. The industry continued to change, moved from analog to digital, and is getting faster, stronger and better every day. In 1999 Qualcomm sold it’s cell phone manufacturing business and has since been focused on wireless tech for many different handset makers. Since then they have grown into one of the largest and strongest companies in the space.

    “Now Qualcomm seems to be taking some curious steps that appear to be headed back to the handset business once again. Recently they introduced their smartwatch called Toq, and now they are acquiring patents from Palm. Are they getting ready to jump back in and be a player in the handset space once again,” asks Tech analyst Jeff Kagan.

    “It is not a forgone conclusion, however Qualcomm has not been clear about their plans either. If they do make this move back into gear, on one hand this could open new revenue opportunities for them, but they could also experience losses since companies who buy chips from them today, may not want to continue doing business with as a competitor,” says Principal analyst Kagan.

    “So what’s going on? Is Qualcomm developing a split personality? We don’t really know yet. However the questions while exciting to think about, can either be helpful or harmful to Qualcomm depending how they manage it. The computer, smartphone, tablet and smartwatch segments are a growing source of revenue. Now there is this growing sense of uncertainty,” says Kagan.

    “So the real question remains, what the heck is Qualcomm really doing, why and what’s next? We’ll have to just wait and see," says Kagan.

    Last year HP sold their Palm mobile operating system called webOS to LG Electronics, which uses the software in their TV’s which are connected to the Internet.

    About Jeff Kagan

    Jeff Kagan is a Technology Industry Analyst, consultant and columnist. He is regularly quoted by the media and shares his opinion in many ways over 25 years.

    He offers comment to reporters and journalists on wireless, telecom, Internet, cable television, IPTV and other tech news stories.

    Kagan is also known as a Tech Analyst, Wireless Analyst, Telecom Analyst and Principal Analyst.

    Reporters: Jeff Kagan sends comments by email to reporters and the media. If you would like to be added to this email list please send request by email.

    Clients: Contact Jeff Kagan to discuss briefing him or becoming a consulting client.

    Contact: Jeff Kagan by email at jeff(at)jeffKAGAN(dot)com or by phone at 770-579-5810.

    Visit his website: at jeffKAGAN.com to learn more and for disclosures.

    Twitter: Follow him at @jeffkagan

    Industry Analyst Jeff Kagan on Qualcomm Acquiring Palm Patents from HP
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by akitayo View Post
    Another opnion:
    Industry Analyst Jeff Kagan on Qualcomm Acquiring Palm Patents from HP
    "Qualcomm appears to be entering the device space once again first with Toq smartwatch and now with Palm patents," says Technology industry analyst Kagan.
    I think that's the big speculation right now. The complete opposite of that theory is that Qualcomm has no intention of using the patents except to maintain intellectual property and relevance. If market and consumer trend analysis is showing the mobile world swinging a certain way and that "way" is pointing at some of the heart of Palm technologies then it is possible they wanted the patents to license. They have made quite a name for themselves based on the patent and licensing "game". Could be nothing more than that....
    Last edited by Alan Morford; 01/26/2014 at 10:46 AM.
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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Morford View Post
    I think that's the big speculation right now. The complete opposite of that theory is that Qualcomm has no intention of using the patents except to maintain intellectual property and relevance. If market and consumer trend analysis is showing the mobile world swinging a certain way and that "way" is pointing at some of the heart of Palm technologies then it is possible they wanted the patents to license. They have made quite a name for themselves based on the patent and licensing "game". Could be nothing more than that....
    ... and the patents could be completely irrelevant to webOS as well.
    Author:
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    GO OPEN WEBOS!
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  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    ... and the patents could be completely irrelevant to webOS as well.
    I'm with you there. I don't know the details of the webOS sale to LG, not that anybody does, but my guess is there are some PalmOS bits that Qualcomm may be interested in. But if memory serves me correct, wasn't PalmOS sold to Access and later licensed to Aceeca?

    I'm biased because I still use my T/X on a daily basis but it sure would be nice to see a dual-core Treo with a 3.5" screen and that wonderful keyboard in 2014. Can you say Q10 killer?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Morford View Post
    I think that's the big speculation right now. The complete opposite of that theory is that Qualcomm has no intention of using the patents except to maintain intellectual property and relevance. If market and consumer trend analysis is showing the mobile world swinging a certain way and that "way" is pointing at some of the heart of Palm technologies then it is possible they wanted the patents to license. They have made quite a name for themselves based on the patent and licensing "game". Could be nothing more than that....
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    ... and the patents could be completely irrelevant to webOS as well.
    Unless Qualcomm want to put in, webOS, on the Toq smartwatch next version and just keep it that way for weareable devices.

    And keep licensing webOS to OEMs manufacturers like LG for other kind of devices.
  16. i2y4n's Avatar
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    #36  
    What are the details of the three sales?

    1 LG bought webOS (the operating system and a license to the patents)
    2 Qualcomm bought the patents (not the operating system)
    3 HP retains a license to the patents

    So isn't LG the only company that can use webOS in hardware? Unless we're talking about Open webOS, but in it's current state it's not even a usable operating system. I don't think new hardware coming from anyone but LG is likely. And even that is an extremely long shot.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by i2y4n View Post
    What are the details of the three sales?

    1 LG bought webOS (the operating system and a license to the patents)
    2 Qualcomm bought the patents (not the operating system)
    3 HP retains a license to the patents

    So isn't LG the only company that can use webOS in hardware? Unless we're talking about Open webOS, but in it's current state it's not even a usable operating system. I don't think new hardware coming from anyone but LG is likely. And even that is an extremely long shot.
    1) Is webOS not open, so technically anyone can use it (I thought) - LG or not

    2) Same for Qualcomm

    3) Are the patents not relevant / interwined in some way with webOS

    As much as I've read about Palm & webOS, and all its history, there never seems a straight answer to who owns what and how. Even the so-called tech analysts vary in their reporting on facts. There are lots of questions that one could ask. Too often the answers are vague, or poorly researched.

    1. Who (now) owns the patents that make the Pre, Pre 3, etc. ?
    2. Can LG use anything related to past Palm products.
    3. Does LG own Enyo or is it licensed to them.
    4. Where's the patents for the Touchpad reside?
    5. Why would Rubenstein be in on the final nail in the coffin for webOS, becoming simply legal fodder in patent lawsuits - as some "experts" announce will happen to webOS with the Qualcomm purchase
    6. If the latter is true - the legal fodder - why then is Ruby on board?


    From my reality, I see LG's foray into webOS television, as requiring some connectivity to mobile. Something that will allow us to talk to our tv, and what's coming up (and can be PVRed). Add any number of appliances, and these pieces of hardware will operate better with a compatible ecosystem.

    The Qualcomm purchase really means another player is invested somehow, into webOS, for whatever their reasons.
    .
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansing2002 View Post
    There are lots of questions that one could ask. Too often the answers are vague, or poorly researched.

    3. Does LG own Enyo or is it licensed to them.
    LG owns Enyo

    unwiredben on the Enyo forum (march 2013):
    Palm + Gram are no more. The core Enyo team is now part of the LG Silicon Valley Labs (which bought most of webOS device software from HP), while part of the Ares team are with HP out of Grenoble, France and reporting into the former webOS cloud services organization.

    LG and HP have engineers working on Ares 2 and it's very much still in development.

    gram was a brand that was going to be used for the organization that ran Open webOS, but it's on hold for now, as most of that group is now part of LG Silicon Valley Labs.
    source: Enyo Forum - Ares all in 1 Installer - Enyo
  19. #39  
    I have better things to do, but I may as well throw my own uninformed opinion in!

    I think:
    Access owns PalmOS - a proprietary platform
    Qualcomm now owns (all?) the Palm patents, hardware and software. Hardware will cover aspects of H/W design and application rather than specific devices (but remember the infamous, `Smartphone patent'). Software will include Legacy webOS.
    I'm not clear whether Enyo was developed at Palm or by them later at HP or if this was a Pre-existing HP Project applied to the TP and partially to phones. As they apparently continue to support development, they may have retained patents to Enyo(?). HP recently returned to mobile and may see Enyo as part of the future.
    HP have likely granted themselves a license to use the technology - probably in perpetuity.
    LG bought `webOS' in the sense of all the code, development resources, staff etc. and a license (in perpertuity?) to develop and use it.

    So, LG are free to use webOS & Enyo. They are doing so.
    HP is possibly free to do the same, but only appear to be involved in Enyo.
    Qualcomm have the patents, so they can very likely:
    1. Make money from licensing the patents.
    2. Develop devices (webOS or not) with significant patents protection.
    3. Develop and sell webOS (unless someone like LG had some kind of exclusivity clause)

    Feel free to correct any errors. I speculate, because I doubt we will know the exact ownership and rights picture for some time, but we can make reasonable guesses about it and the implications.

    For me two questions remain:
    1. LG is going bigger with webOS than anyone really expected. Why did they not buy the patents?
    2. What is the relationship in law between Patents and Open source? Is there any possible effect on webOS-Ports? I would guess not, but to be simplistic, could the patents impede the open-source project or did the open-sourcing void any claims (it was originally done by the holder) ?
  20. #40  
    One thing is for sure about corporations, there is allot of forward thinking. So I'm sure there is master plan.
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