View Poll Results: How is webOS doing? Definitions below.

Voters
84. You may not vote on this poll
  • 5. Dominant.

    1 1.19%
  • 4. Mainstream.

    1 1.19%
  • 3. Optional.

    2 2.38%
  • 2. Enthusiast.

    45 53.57%
  • 1. Hobbyist.

    21 25.00%
  • 0. Dead.

    14 16.67%
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  1.    #1  
    My definitions (note: 4 & 5 are included for completeness, not because I expect anyone to choose them... maybe one day?)

    5. Dominant: The OS is available on flagship, cutting edge devices with a large and growing app catalogue. It is the OS used by the majority of users.

    4. Mainstream: The OS has significant market share (likely in the top 4) and is likely offered on new hardware by at least one large manufacturer. Updates to hardware and software occur. New apps are being created frequently.

    3. Optional: The OS has a decent level of services and apps. It is possible for the general public to buy a reasonably up to date device and run the OS on it. Updates to software occur. New apps are being created regularly.

    2. Enthusiast: The OS is functional, with enough services and apps to be usable and enjoyed by fans of the system. Some development occures. New apps are created occasionally.

    1. Hobbyist: A handful of devices or emulators are run and the code is tinkered with by a small number of hackers for fun and nostalgia. Services and apps available to other platforms are limited or absent. This could also apply to new, yet to be released systems.

    0. Dead: The OS is out of date, irrelevant, undeveloped, ignored and discarded. Most devices are off with dead batteries or broken / recycled. It's over.

    Other than zero, there always remains a possibility for the OS to reach any other level, but the lower the number, the more effort & time that will be required.

    ===============
    So, we have an ongoing port, an ACL option on it's way and a reprieve on the root certificate issue. Where do you think webOS is now?

    If you think these definitions need adjustment, suggest changes below.
    Last edited by Preemptive; 06/13/2013 at 04:48 AM.
    Remy X likes this.
  2.    #2  
    Feeling optimistic and because technically it is possible to get hardware from your preferred shopping site (don't how many 'new' ones are still out there) I actually went for 3!
  3. #3  
    My thought on this.....right now, if LG was smart, they'd just release a device with say an updated webos release supporting slabs...(3.1.0) with improved cpu and we will still be happy as a stopgap measure.
    TouchPadPro likes this.
  4. #4  
    Between 2 and 3 I would say. More 3 than 2. App development is a little slow, but still good things are being released on a regular basis.
  5. #5  
    Enthusiast. WebOS is the Dan Marino of OS's: the best at what it does with absolutely no supporting cast.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Feeling optimistic and because technically it is possible to get hardware from your preferred shopping site (don't how many 'new' ones are still out there) I actually went for 3!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    Between 2 and 3 I would say. More 3 than 2. App development is a little slow, but still good things are being released on a regular basis.
    I've got to disagree on the optimism that makes webOS a 3.
    3. Optional: The OS has a decent level of services and apps. It is possible for the general public to buy a reasonably up to date device and run the OS on it. Updates to software occur. New apps are being created regularly.
    The reasonably up to date portion kills condition 3. Screen resolution, Adreno 220 GPU, single core CPU in the phones (or dual 1.2 GHz in the TP), minimal RAM, sub-par batteries and cameras, slow H+ speeds. The hardware is looking pretty yesteryear...

    I have to vote my conscience and it tells me level 2.


    Quote Originally Posted by daexpression View Post
    My thought on this.....right now, if LG was smart, they'd just release a device with say an updated webos release supporting slabs...(3.1.0) with improved cpu and we will still be happy as a stopgap measure.
    If I were an LG decision maker, I'd get webOS ported to the Nexus 4 and be set to release it this fall when Google moves on to the next Nexus phone... It costs them so little to do. And not 3.1.0... 4.x... It would be a departure from what has gone before. I'd base it on 3.x, but take a clue from Android and bring the phone and tablet back together in the release...
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 06/13/2013 at 01:22 PM.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

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    Remy X and TouchPadPro like this.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    I've got to disagree on the optimism that makes webOS a 3.
    it's a fair point, but it depends on your definition of 'reasonably current'. I go with the 'works for me' angle & don't have a Nexus 4 to show up how old my pre is!

    I also agree with your advice for LG, but if they do it, I'd be far more surprised than I was by the app catalogue fix. If that hadn't happened, I'd have instantly demoted webOS to 1. & started considering my options.
  8. #8  
    **voted**

    Like i've said in the previous thread, i believe that webOS constantly fluctuates between 1.5 and 2.5, depending on the state of software and infrastructure. But of course, over time the hardware will continue to age.

    WebOS has a future in the form of OwOS and viable, unopened hardware still on sale. Cloud services will continue to exist for at least a few years, even as Synergy connectors will continue to break as APIs change. Diehard developers continue to release apps or patches once every few weeks. So, overall there's no indication that the platform is dead, but at the same time, we aren't competing with any new device on the market. It's halfway between perfect health and death.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    it's a fair point, but it depends on your definition of 'reasonably current'. I go with the 'works for me' angle & don't have a Nexus 4 to show up how old my pre is!
    There are still people rockin' Treo devices that "work for them", so if that's your qualifier for "reasonably current" I find that definition kind of a cop-out.

    "Reasonably current" to the vast majority of the mobile landscape these days is about 2 years prior to the current year, since most people tend to trade up after their contract cycle is complete (and a significant number do it well before that).

    I have to place where webOS is reasonably between a 1-2, edging closer to a 1 as more popular services update their APIs, effectively breaking applications slowly but surely.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    So, overall there's no indication that the platform is dead, but at the same time, we aren't competing with any new device on the market. It's halfway between perfect health and death.
    *Sigh*

    I love my Pre³, but apparently it's Schrödinger's phone.

    [For those of you who weren't physics majors, Google "Schrödinger's cat".]

    Tungsten E, Treo 650, Pre+ (3), Pre³ (2), TouchPad (2), & my trusty Treo BT headset (in use!)
    Posts: Save/Restore Backup Process & Batch File | Activated! (Verizon Pre³ Activation) | "Not Enough Space To Download" Fix
    Remy X and Preemptive like this.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    WebOS has a future in the form of OwOS and viable, unopened hardware still on sale.

    [...]

    So, overall there's no indication that the platform is dead, but at the same time, we aren't competing with any new device on the market. It's halfway between perfect health and death.
    Quote Originally Posted by dignitary View Post
    There are still people rockin' Treo devices that "work for them", so if that's your qualifier for "reasonably current" I find that definition kind of a cop-out.

    "Reasonably current" to the vast majority of the mobile landscape these days is about 2 years prior to the current year, since most people tend to trade up after their contract cycle is complete (and a significant number do it well before that).

    I have to place where webOS is reasonably between a 1-2, edging closer to a 1 as more popular services update their APIs, effectively breaking applications slowly but surely.
    I'll take another run at it. By reasonably current, I mean that the devices have most of the functions of a new device. There has been some criticism of iphone for not having some features of Android models (NFC, LTE - I'm not sure of the spec list of iphone 5), but it is current. This is the 'quality UX' vs 'More features' battle.

    My Pre2 may not have dual core, a high res camera and NFC but I'd say it does most of what a new model can do - though it would be considered 'low-end'. The Pre3 is better & still falls into the 2 year range for a couple more months. Though hardware is constantly improving, it's mainly in terms of speed or capacity at the moment. It seems actual new features are somewhat incremental & the two-year contract thing creates a 'because you can' upgrade point and was possibly designed specifically to create a turnover in the market. Of course if a new webOS capable handset was released it would instantly, clearly be 'Optional' at 3. A port to Gnex at this time might do that, or still leave us at 2. Levels 4 & 5 are more about market share and the development activity it brings.

    The API issue is essentially a developer problem - if the API is available, then it simply requires someone to write an update or for the OEM or service provider to build it in. Alas, we have no support and little interest here aside from the hardcore devs that remain.

    @Remy X: Viable, unopened hardware, yes, but I'd guess it is mainly being bought by webOS enthusiasts. Open webOS may be the future, but it isn't NOW. It won't run on existing devices and back porting may be wasted effort by the time a release occurs. However, the only 2 people who voted '3' at this point have announced themselves, so you must be with the majority.

    I see a couple of votes for 0. but I think that actually contradicts the definition, so I guess those folks 'ain't from 'round here".
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bethel95 View Post
    I love my Pre³, but apparently it's Schrödinger's phone.
    But the phone's not in the box. The users attitude to it is in the box. This poll opens the box to see if the result is positive or negative. ;-)

    Unfortunately, once we've measured position, we can't measure velocity towards zero.
  13. #13  
    voted 2.

    You can't walk into a store to buy a WebOS phones, so to me that means it is not available to the general public. To me general public includes people with no tech knowledge, so if we are talking about installing WebOS on something that is not general public.

    New apps do not appear every day anymore. Very few things are updated. so I don't think its a 3

    Core services do work (calls, email, web, etc). All this stuff is standardized now too so it will probably be working for a long time, so I don't think it's a 1.
    Preemptive likes this.
  14.    #14  
    Just a note to those voting zero: There are currently 2 new versions of webOS being developed. If this poll was specifically about either, they would be at level 1. Legacy webOS is still out there. It may well die. It remains possible that it could come back. But it isn't dead yet.

    My fault for including all the options I suppose!
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    The API issue is essentially a developer problem - if the API is available, then it simply requires someone to write an update or for the OEM or service provider to build it in. Alas, we have no support and little interest here aside from the hardcore devs that remain.
    Well, it's a "developer issue" in that for closed-source applications whose developers have abandoned the app, it would be illegal to make updates without a written license from the original developer/company allowing someone to carry on with it. And not a whole lot of those are likely to respond to those requests, so they're effectively dead--and money wasted if someone buys them today from the App Catalog.

    Remember when people around here were begging devs leaving the platform to put their apps out there as open-source for any other developer to take over? And then a few dozen did get open-sourced? How many of those were picked up and carried on? Not many at all, and we're talking apps of almost every variety.

    Look at Spaz. Nobody appears (at the moment) to be picking it up to use the new Twitter API, and users appear to just be moving on rather than trying to solicit a developer. That speaks louder about the lack of hope from users and the lack of developers trying to prop webOS up than anything since there are/were still plenty of people using it until the other day when it stopped working. (Frankly, I do hope someone picks it up and brings it back up to speed.)

    If things continue at that rate, this "How is webOS Doing?" rating might as well fall between 0-1.

    So it's really not a "developer problem" in itself; it's a problem with dozens of existing open-source projects not being maintained by the webOS community after people begged for them to be released, the community losing hope in the apps they've used by simply moving on to one "that isn't broken", and companies having long gone just not bothering to make the updates necessary and legal barriers prevent them from being updated by anyone else.

    Yes, there are exceptions (webOS Internals and Ports and the Dropboxify takeover), but they're becoming much fewer and further between as the days pass.
    Last edited by dignitary; 06/14/2013 at 12:54 PM.
  16.    #16  
    Yes, that's what I meant: A lack of developers / development. I'm not saying it's the developer's problem.

    Interesting though. Maybe it's worth making a list of these open apps to maybe focus some attention. Fixing up an existing project could be good for someone learning programming.
    RumoredNow likes this.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    [...]
    Interesting though. Maybe it's worth making a list of these open apps to maybe focus some attention. Fixing up an existing project could be good for someone learning programming.
    Or enough to make a newbie become disillusioned about doing any more webOS/homebrew programming.

    I'm not saying that your idea is bad, it's just that support requests can make even the original developer head for the hills, and placing those responsibilities on someone who's not familiar with the project and lacks adequate tools (or skills) may cause them to abandon the project relatively quickly.

    All in all, it depends on how readable and well documented the original code is, and if the new API is available to work with (yes for Twitter, no for LinkedIn).
    dignitary likes this.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    I've got to disagree on the optimism that makes webOS a 3.

    The reasonably up to date portion kills condition 3. Screen resolution, Adreno 220 GPU, single core CPU in the phones (or dual 1.2 GHz in the TP), minimal RAM, sub-par batteries and cameras, slow H+ speeds. The hardware is looking pretty yesteryear...

    I have to vote my conscience and it tells me level 2.




    If I were an LG decision maker, I'd get webOS ported to the Nexus 4 and be set to release it this fall when Google moves on to the next Nexus phone... It costs them so little to do. And not 3.1.0... 4.x... It would be a departure from what has gone before. I'd base it on 3.x, but take a clue from Android and bring the phone and tablet back together in the release...
    "If I were an LG decision maker, I'd get webOS ported to the Nexus 4 and be set to release it this fall when Google moves on to the next Nexus phone... It costs them so little to do. And not 3.1.0... 4.x... It would be a departure from what has gone before. I'd base it on 3.x, but take a clue from Android and bring the phone and tablet back together in the release.."
    Any remote posibility that this would occur? What is LG doing right now with webOS
    regards,
    Antonio
    Lima-Peru
  19. #19  
    use my TP more than my iphone 5 and my laptop

    still trying to decide what to do with my HP Veer

    my frankinpre2 gets use as well as its the best device I ever owned hands down
    32G Touchpad
    iphone 5 on sprint wouldn't leave a good relationship
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    ...don't have a Nexus 4 to show up how old my pre is!...
    I spend way too much money on phones... I have 7 of the things right now: Motorola Backflip, iPhone 3GS, Nokia E5-00, Palm Pre 2, HP Veer, Samsung Galaxy Nexus, LG Nexus 4. I can only use one or two at a time.

    When Ubuntu Touch gets going I'll probably switch to that as a daily driver. UNLESS (or until) Ports Team gets Open webOS going on the Gnex. I bought both the Nexi to give myself options for the future. Potentially the N4 will be Ubuntu Touch and the GNex on OwOS... If Ports then got the N4 going, I'd flip-flop that.


    Quote Originally Posted by TouchPadPro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow
    If I were an LG decision maker, I'd get webOS ported to the Nexus 4 and be set to release it this fall when Google moves on to the next Nexus phone... It costs them so little to do. And not 3.1.0... 4.x... It would be a departure from what has gone before. I'd base it on 3.x, but take a clue from Android and bring the phone and tablet back together in the release...
    Any remote posibility that this would occur? What is LG doing right now with webOS
    regards,
    Antonio
    Lima-Peru
    It's just my pie-in-the-sky, pipe-dream, wishful-thinking hope that I keep posting around the forum. I would love for it to happen, but have no evidence that it will.

    LG is using webOS to build an AppleTV/GoogleTV slayer. It will eat the others for breakfast and then **** out their diodes...

    Then they might put it on your dishwasher/clothes washer-dryer/refrigerator/etc...
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
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