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  1.    #1  
    This is a thread to discuss how a webOS user group could work.

    To begin with there are a group of 10 of us who will debate the role of a user group, possible mechanisms and organisation.

    If you wish to join that group, just post (can't stop you!). Please be practical & positive. If you missed it, there is a report on the state of webOS and some previous discussion here: webOS Status Report

    After role & organisation, I guess we can discuss some basic sample policy directions to present to the wider community as examples of what could be debated and decided. Then of course there is the question of recruiting enough members for the user group to have some actual use to webOS and it's community. Those subjects may be on new threads.

    Hopefully it will all be pretty simple and straight forward to start with, so let's kick it off - July 23rd gets ever closer!

    Page one: We all would like to see webOS continue & develop as a viable mobile device operating system with new devices becoming available in the future...
    Last edited by Preemptive; 05/31/2013 at 10:17 PM.
  2. #2  
    I've been following the other thread, with great interest, and would like to get involved.

    One thought that I had: Once we get the group established, maybe a dedicated IRC channel should be one of our primary methods of communication.

    My reasoning for that: 1. We wouldn't have to worry about being censored/moderated by the mobilenations mods. 2. webOS happens to have the greatest IRC client, of any mobile device. (wIRC)
    Preemptive likes this.
  3.    #3  
    Hi bradmeister1,

    Thanks for your proposal. I have added your user name to the contact list.

    Certainly, there has been some criticism of the 'walls of text' on the other thread and perhaps a forum isn't the best means of communication for in-depth discussion. I don't see that anything we talk about will be so controversial as to be censored by mods - it's only an operating system! (just don't mention Leo!) ;-) I think it's wise to have a presence here and hopefully on other forums.

    I'm not much of a user of IRC, so I'll look into it. One problem I foresee is the fact that users are all around the globe, so discussions may get repetitious as contributors 'wake up' to a debate and make points that were maybe already made by someone in an earlier timezone.

    The other issue already raised is that of the language barrier. Some really interesting stuff is being done in China & Russia especially and it would be great if webOS users from elsewhere can be involved. Just recently, there was possibly good news from LG - depending on the quality of the translation from Korean...

    Some websites push comments that are liked nearer the top of the list. Maybe that's an approach and I'm sure there will be more opinions on this.

    I'm now reaching for the phone to download wIRC...

    EDIT: Of course, whatever communication channel we end up with MUST work on every webOS device - if that's possible...
    Last edited by Preemptive; 06/01/2013 at 09:22 PM.
    Remy X likes this.
  4. #4  
    I think IRC would work pretty good or maybe make our own massaging app......I dream big. I also wanted to say that I would like to be a member.

    Maybe we should have regional division like: North America, Europe, Asia.
    Smartphones: Nokia 5230 > Palm Pre 2 > Nokia 701 (returned) > HP Pre 3 > BB Z10 (save me from it) + HP Touchpad
    Cars: 1993 Subaru Impreza AWD > 2007 Saab 9-3 2.0T


    LinkedIn: Matthew Mers
    Twitter: MatthewMers
    Preemptive likes this.
  5. #5  
    Perhaps a mailinglist would work better, as you won't have the time difference problem and they're better suited for those big posts Preemptive makes.
    Preemptive likes this.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by mattmers View Post
    I think IRC would work pretty good or maybe make our own massaging app......I dream big. I also wanted to say that I would like to be a member.

    Maybe we should have regional division like: North America, Europe, Asia.
    While that may be an idea if the group gets large (and I'd suggest linguistic division), I think it can wait until that time arrives.

    I have considered an (Enyo!) app that would notify members of proposals, due dates for votes, the voting system itself and links to documents (e.g. Status report). Maybe an add on to IRC? I don't have the skills to make this. For a massaging app, I set the phone to vibrate... ;-)

    Perhaps a mailinglist would work better, as you won't have the time difference problem and they're better suited for those big posts Preemptive makes.
    Er, thanks! I think mailling list tools are plentiful, so this would be easy for longer stuff or to start with. Oh, yes - the newsletter suggested by SWRHKP!

    Ah, I was going to suggest a Google+ community
    Does it not work in the webOS stock browser?

    Mattmers & Choorp added to the list!
    Last edited by Preemptive; 06/02/2013 at 09:41 AM.
  7. #7  
    you could start a yahoo group as another suggestion, i follow a few amiga/emulation/FPGA ones to leave/read comments from the group.

    heres one i read quite often.

    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/chameleon_64/
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  8.    #8  
    Thanks for the suggestion, I've added you to the list.

    I notice there are social groups on this site. They seem little used - I assume they are just private forums, but we could set one up just to see if there are any benefits...

    For a bit of clarity, we are discussing:

    1. The Role of a webOS user group.
    2. Communication & Decision making mechanisms.
    3. Organisation & Administration.

    Mostly no. 2 at the moment. Someone may want to suggest a deadline to decide on the shape of a group (a prototype), then we can look at possible agendas before inviting a broader membership.
  9. #9  
    I'd say, before this thread gets long and heavy to process too (as the status report) ― outline the purpose of the user group. What would the members be members for? I have no clear perspective on a user groups purpose, as I've never been part of one ― unless it's really just like a club ...

    {I never liked playing with cards — until webOS made it useful}
    Preemptive likes this.
  10.    #10  
    Well, you're a member now autodidact! ;-)

    Firstly, back to post #1: Page one: We all would like to see webOS continue & develop as a viable mobile device operating system with new devices becoming available in the future...

    The question you're asking is about the role of the group, which is one of the things we are deciding. Maybe something roughly like this?

    Potential Role of the webOS user group:

    * To gather data on the state of webOS as a whole and maintain a status report on this.
    * To suggest practical scenarios for the continued development, updating and use of webOS and associated devices by the 'webOS community'.
    * To construct an agenda for enabling the above ideas to be achieved.
    * Where necessary, to campaign, support, lobby, develop projects and fund raise for the agenda.
    * To issue a regular newsletter to members with updates of the report, details and news, proposals and voting results.
    * To notify the wider community of activities so they might choose to get involved.
    * To advise and consult with other groups on projects and policies related to webOS.

    In short: Research -> Strategy -> Action

    Comments welcome...
    Last edited by Preemptive; 06/02/2013 at 01:17 PM.
    RumoredNow and autodidact like this.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion, I've added you to the list.

    I notice there are social groups on this site. They seem little used - I assume they are just private forums, but we could set one up just to see if there are any benefits...

    For a bit of clarity, we are discussing:

    1. The Role of a webOS user group.
    2. Communication & Decision making mechanisms.
    3. Organisation & Administration.

    Mostly no. 2 at the moment. Someone may want to suggest a deadline to decide on the shape of a group (a prototype), then we can look at possible agendas before inviting a broader membership.
    I earlier proposed using the social group format already set up on the site... The advantage is only those interested need read the "walls of text." It is true that social groups get underutilized on forums. I have quite a bit of experience with them actually. They are hard to sustain activity in, but remain out of view and don't clutter a site. The pros and cons are about even, IMHO...

    1) Was summed up nicely in one of your other posts: Research > Strategy > Action

    2) Communication and Decision Making are really two separate concerns.
    2 A) Internal Communication - I still say a social group is the best venue. It is here, can be made private from non participants and is very expandable. One drawback is post length, but that can be worked around via multiple posts.
    2 B) External communications - should have 2 components: webOS Nation threads as needed/appropriate and "Evangelicals" who spread the word outside this board (be it via blog or on other boards).
    2 a) Decision making should be by committee. At first a committee might only have one member!!! All committee decisions need to be ratified by either a vote from members or an executive committee after input from members regarding committee recommendations. Votes are more inclusive. Exec committee keeps a tighter grip on the helm for a steadier direction.
    2 b) Committees would have permanent or temporary status as needed. Temporary ones work around current issues and permanent ones cover basic areas like Executive Decision, Technical Support for Projects, Communications, Membership, etc. Committee assignments would most likely be multiple and overlap due to member skill and participation level.

    3) Is heavily dependent on the internal communication venue...
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
    Remy X likes this.
  12.    #12  
    At the moment, I think we're just considering internal communication, though external communication will be required (as dictated by the agenda). This forum is semi-public of course and hopefully acting as a shop window...

    Your idea of sub committees, executive committees etc. may be valid for a large organisation. However, I think that question can be decided by the group itself should it's membership become large enough to become unwieldy. Projects of course will need leaders - likely those who propose the projects as a default.

    Any real power will come from a large membership that includes some 'movers & shakers' in the community (listed in the report) as well as a significant chunk of the average, interested users (like me!). At the moment our best guess for numbers is in the high hundreds / low thousands. It might not be enough to require much beaucracy.

    To begin with, we need members. Members need to buy in and for that they will need to feel their voices are heard and that their ideas count. So in the spirit of webOS being open to modification and now open source, to begin with I favour open direct democracy.

    Obviously, there may need to be a way to filter frivolous proposals, but that comes under point 3.
  13. #13  
    For now, i'd say we can go with RumoredNow's idea of forum groups. They have their issues, such as the members not being notified of activity (unless you subscribe by email), but the upside is that it stays within the forum, with the forum threads being 100% public and the groups somewhat more private, depending on configuration.

    The forum itself is vital to keeping the conversation going, considering how many readers don't even register, preferring to lurk instead. If we leave the forum, we might be tempted to take the whole conversation with us.

    So the trick is to somehow balance the "wall of text" issue against having a visible communication thread, to separate brainstorming from a dry, bureaucratic status report, and still have some way for the lurkers to chime in if they choose to.


    As for IRC, i think that might work, but at the same time, it can turn into a bit of a timewaster for me personally... so don't take it wrong if i fail to log on without first coordinating the time in a forum thread
  14. #14  
    I don't personally have any experience with using Forum Groups but from everyone's descriptions, it sounds like a good solution, that may work well for our anticipated needs. (We could always try something else if we run into issues, down the road)

    As for the proposed newsletter - I think we should try to limit it to a weekly or bimonthly email, which summarizes the groups current activities, upcoming deadlines, etc. If we send them out too often, we run the risk of spamming the group. If we send them too infrequently, we run the risk of losing our audience's attention. A newsletter may also resolve Remy X's concern about the forum not notifying everyone of new activity. (The week's activity would be summarized in the newsletter)

    I think we need to get a better grasp of how many interested members we have or will have in the near future, before we can effectively design the group's decision making apparatus. If we only have a handful of members, then implementing a large bureaucracy may be counterproductive.

    Also: we should start working to address the cert issue, as soon as possible. July-‎23-‎13 4:30:48 PM will be here before you know it.
    Remy X and Preemptive like this.
  15.    #15  
    Also: we should start working to address the cert issue, as soon as possible. July-‎23-‎13 4:30:48 PM will be here before you know it.
    I pretty much agree with the above. If we can't get a decent number on board, there's no point. So something quick and simple that will work is all we need and a larger group can start worrying about managing themselves. When we have a range of suggestions for each area, I'll list them and we will vote. Then we can knock up a basic agenda to present to the community.

    Hopefully, this will happen soon enough to be able to offer some response to... whatever happens on the 23rd of July!

    If anyone wants to propose some deadlines, please do. I probably won't have time to post for a day or so.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    ...Projects of course will need leaders - likely those who propose the projects as a default...
    That's why you are in charge right now. It's your idea and others are looking to you for direction/decision.

    It may also be why ideas are slow in coming. Putting out the idea makes you responsible for the work load.

    In that spirit, if you would like me to set up a Social Group just shoot me a PM with the go ahead. Formatting can always be redone at a later date if the setup I use is not acceptable to the majority.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
    Alan Morford likes this.
  17. #17  
    I think we should form a webOS trust or foundation. The goal would be for webOS' continued grow. I think we should have a 3 level hierarchy
    Hierarchy:
    -Executive Committee: Should be composed of "high ranking" webOS fans, "high ranking" webOS developers, webOS ports, webOS internals and Finally webOS related Companies (HP, LG, PIC, etc.)
    -General Committee: Composed of people who particapate very often with the webOS community
    -General Member: anyone can join (will have a basic input but no vote and will be kept up to date with the situation.)

    And I think the social group will work for now but maybe in the future we could use team box.
    also for external communication, where is bbm for webOS when you need it haha.
    Smartphones: Nokia 5230 > Palm Pre 2 > Nokia 701 (returned) > HP Pre 3 > BB Z10 (save me from it) + HP Touchpad
    Cars: 1993 Subaru Impreza AWD > 2007 Saab 9-3 2.0T


    LinkedIn: Matthew Mers
    Twitter: MatthewMers
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    ...

    For a bit of clarity, we are discussing:

    1. The Role of a webOS user group.
    2. Communication & Decision making mechanisms.
    3. Organisation & Administration.
    ...
    A very interesting proposal. I'm not sure, what I can contribute, having work and family and basically being a WebOS hobbyist, but let me try to add my view to the discussion of above points:

    1) Role
    I would see such a group as a communication and information gremium, a sort of "bonding substance" for the community, where you can exchange information, tips and help.

    2) Mechanisms
    If it has to work on WebOS devices, I would stick to the Web. A Forum, maybe Tapatalk-enabled would be my suggestion. Social Media is a bit hairy, seeing the state of the Facebook-for-WebOS app (not to mention the G+ prototype). Maybe, as additional information- and communicationchannel I would suggest Twitter.

    3) Org
    I smell committee. A small base of (forum)Admins and Mods that stay in close contact and decide, which way to go with this. Too many cooks spoil the dish (read: will lead to second guessing, navel gazing, decision delaying).

    So far my thoughts on this.
    Hope this helps a bit.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by mattmers View Post
    I think we should form a webOS trust or foundation. The goal would be for webOS' continued grow. I think we should have a 3 level hierarchy
    Hierarchy:
    -Executive Committee: Should be composed of "high ranking" webOS fans, "high ranking" webOS developers, webOS ports, webOS internals and Finally webOS related Companies (HP, LG, PIC, etc.)
    -General Committee: Composed of people who particapate very often with the webOS community
    -General Member: anyone can join (will have a basic input but no vote and will be kept up to date with the situation.)
    Please explain your reasoning?


    Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I had expected the proposed group to unite and inspire the fragmented webOS masses. To maybe prove to the world, and potentially to the respective copyright holders, what we already know: That webOS represents a vastly untapped potential; both in terms of an enthusiastic, motivated user base and as a world class, extremely versatile operating system.

    1. How can it possibly be in our best interests, to promote any sort of group which is designed to disenfranchise participants based on arbitrary standards?
    2. How can we expect to unite anyone around our "open" operating system with a pretentious, aristocratic mentality?
    3. How would we be better served by further empowering those who have oppressed webOS? (HP wants nothing to do with us and would wash their hands of webOS, if given the opportunity. LG's motivations remain to be seen, but aside from employing a few of our brethren, they have made few contributions to our community.)

    This group needs to reinvigorate the silent majority of faithful, webOS users! Frankly, I believe that your proposal lacks the open principals which drew many of us to become fanatical users. If this is the vision that y'all have for the group, than you will surely alienate more potential members than you will ever attract.


    Note: Please don't take any offense to my commentary, I was merely hoping to convey my passion for webOS and to further the dialogue, regarding the group's mission.
    Last edited by bradmeister1; 06/04/2013 at 03:09 AM. Reason: Corrected a typographical error.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by bradmeister1 View Post
    Please explain your reasoning?


    Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I had expected the proposed group to unite and inspire the fragmented webOS masses. To maybe prove to the world, and potentially to the respective copyright holders, what we already know: That webOS represents a vastly untapped potential; both in terms of an enthusiastic, motivated user base and as a world class, extremely versatile operating system.

    1. How can it possibly be in our best interests, to promote any sort of group which is designed to disenfranchise participants based on arbitrary standards?
    2. How can we expect to unite anyone around our "open" operating system with a pretentious, aristocratic mentality?
    3. How would we be better served by further empowering those who have oppressed webOS? (HP wants nothing to do with us and would wash their hands of webOS, if given the opportunity. LG's motivations remain to be seen, but aside from employing a few of our brethren, have made few contributions to our community.)


    This group needs to reinvigorate the silent majority of faithful, webOS users! Frankly, I believe that your proposal lacks the open principals which drew many of us to become fanatical users. If this is the vision that y'all have for the group, than you will surely alienate more potential members than you will ever attract.


    Note: Please don't take any offense to my commentary, I was merely hoping to convey my passion for webOS and to further the dialogue, regarding the group's mission.
    That was all referring to if it was a webOS trust. I think that if the group is completely open then communication often fails and that the majority of users do not want to spend and hour or two helping out, they want to participate but may not have the time. I saw this a PIC where they got a lot of volunteers but a large group was more interested in watching the events unfold more then work to get stuff done or provide there services. I think it would be ok to let all members have a vote but I think some groups have a larger stake in webOS and should have an equivalent vote. No offense taken, we are here to figure out what we will do and a different view point is good.
    Smartphones: Nokia 5230 > Palm Pre 2 > Nokia 701 (returned) > HP Pre 3 > BB Z10 (save me from it) + HP Touchpad
    Cars: 1993 Subaru Impreza AWD > 2007 Saab 9-3 2.0T


    LinkedIn: Matthew Mers
    Twitter: MatthewMers
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