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  1. sspirall's Avatar
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    #61  
    Hi, casual webOS user here, interested in contributing to the "brethren uprising" by boosting your forum post metrics...by posting at the very least. BTW, I love the crap out of this forum topic and the sage contributions that all are making. What else do you need li'l old pedestrian me to do "for the cause" if I only own a phone; lately backing it up to HP server very infrequently; and just had no ability to ever own a firesale Touchpad in Canada; but would buy a Gnex or any other unlocked device if the OwOS port were complete for it; and is visiting the webOSnation articles and forums front pages every other day? I'd suggest there are a lot of foot soldiers (of varied webOS proficiency) still quietly enjoying their specific use webOS device like me. Many could be paying attention to this "building out" of your status report data but are being told where to purposefully raise a hand and be counted. The petition is not such a request, page hits tracked by mobilenations servers aren't accurate enough of an active device user count, and I assume HP/gram employees tallied their own numbers of how many devices were attempting auto or manual back up just before the sale to LG had success. Reaching out to specifically connected homebrew developers, or hell, even gram employees that have posted here would contribute tons of mindshare to your status reporting as well. Derek might be able to get you some portion of the mobilenations traffic count data that lead to webOS being left off the imminent site redesign, maybe? No harm in asking for permission to run data mining or for what spike in numbers the recent webOS device giveaways created either; that would have flushed plenty 'o' haiku-appreciating lurkers out of the shrubbery also. Glad to see an accurate pulse being taken either way. Onwards lads, knowledge is power.
    Last edited by sspirall; 05/29/2013 at 03:26 PM.
    Preemptive likes this.
  2. #62  
    Don't be depressed. Ever work in a company with multiple divisions?
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
    Remy X likes this.
  3. #63  
    Initially, the active members of this board are what we have to work with for grass roots user base.

    This can be expanded. Active members here also belong (via passport) to all the Mobile Nations sites and many regular members of this board frequent one or more other MN sites. (I'm spending time on Android Central, for example.) They can promote efforts and recruit others to participate. There are some disaffected former webOS users in those places and others who are interested in advancing mobile as a whole who favor choice. Additionally, there are members here who visit other webOS sites around the world. The Chinese, Russian, French, German and Dutch speakers in particular seem to always have someone in attendance who could possibly be used to take the word "abroad."

    Don't discount the fact that WebOS Internals uses this site as a base. That makes it the true hub of webOS interest...

    BTW: I'm all for some automated data mining. Saves me a lot of work, would be more efficient. I agree that anonymity is crucial. I'll stand by to help with collating any data gathered.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
    Remy X and Preemptive like this.
  4. #64  
    Yes there is a newsletter (however lacking in information it is) I receive it monthly. When you create a "log in" it asks you if you want signed up for the newsletter. This may reach some of the users that dont normally log onto the website but that do actually check their email. Also who is responsible for creating that content (may be worth looking into).

    And no secret slanket wearing for me, I am proud to be a webOS lover!!

    I'm not super techy but will do what I can to raise awareness.
    Preemptive likes this.
  5. #65  
    I think that the problems we've to deal with basically come down to these:
    • data mining
    • certificates
    • apps
    • browser

    I definitely think data mining should be automated, perhaps it's an idea to use Google app engine to run a bot? We should also have bots running for the Chinese, Russian, French, German and perhaps Italian and Dutch webOS communities, in order to get a good picture. Also, de Palm developer forum still has some activity and the last posts on XDA are fairly recently as well.
    In my opinion, the solution for the certificates problem would be to give webOS-ports acces to the OTA update system. This way they good push parts of LunaCE that are in a production state to the regular webOS user and it would give the community the ability to solve issues ourselves and push the solutions to all webOS users, even those who are less tech-savvy.

    The last two major problems we have (apps and the browser) could be solved at once, we'll probably need to make the isis core run on our devices, and isis should include support for the open webAPI (https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI). That way we would be able to run firefox OS apps on our webOS phones. This would also be much easier to port to other devices than ACL.

    But to be honest, I don't think HP will give ports access to the OTA system and neither do I think that the webAPI will ever be implemented into isis.
    Preemptive likes this.
  6. #66  
    @Jan: But that is impossible because unlike 3.0.5 the phone versions were never open sourced. So if they don't even wanna open source the phone versions why would they give webOS Ports OTA access? For 3.0.5 they might.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    @Jan: But that is impossible because unlike 3.0.5 the phone versions were never open sourced. So if they don't even wanna open source the phone versions why would they give webOS Ports OTA access? For 3.0.5 they might.
    For the phone versions, OTA updates have to be vetted and approved by the wireless carriers, regardless of the fact that some phones are sold unlocked... So it's a logistical fail either way

    Verizon here would have never approved v.2 for the Pre+, which shipped with 1.4, regardless of the fact that Palm made it available. It's a common problem with Android also, one that has even Google cursing over its apparent powerlessness
  8. #68  
    A problem which Apple solved by basically using exactly one version of the software for everything, and virtually identical hardware for everything. And by having an absolutely ridiculous market share for the longest time.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  9. #69  
    It's an interesting idea. I looked at the main forum page where the useful info is and the number of visitors was just over 1000, 123 of which were registered. I think the first question is, how often should a snap shot be taken to be useful? If the answer is 'not often', then this may be feasible. However, as Remy X commented earlier, there are all kinds of levels of interest. The two snap shots we have suggest that 90% of visitors are not registered.

    Oh, another interesting figure: Most users ever online was 2,221, 11/12/2012 at 02:00 PM. Assuming that 10% were registered, then we're looking at a max of 222 - not total registered users, but the most that were ever here at once. Given that is 'post Apotheclypse', It might be of slight interest to search that date for what was happening, but it was probably an angry birds app giveaway or maybe the fire sale created a rush of new users. Incidentally, that 2221 is only about 100 more than those on the petition.

    The registered 10% are at least named in the box below and I'd say we would have to collect those names. The hundred odd users present one day could be a different 100 the next. In other words we have to connect numbers to names to account for churn and get a true idea of total registered users. Although webOS nation are publishing this data on the page, there might be slight privacy concerns (yes, it's only avatar names, but..) about us collecting it, but I guess that's what Alexa is doing - even if what it publishes is anonymised. I guess logging in and checking threads could take up to an hour. reading a lot and commenting maybe more. Some will drop in and some will be permanently logged in on a browser tab while they do other things. Also, as visitors are international, snap shots will be needed over 24 hours.

    Including me, 10 people have commented on this thread, so if we go for full on tracking, it's 24 snap shots with names per day for 30 days. 720 samples. Even assuming all 10 of us are willing and er... unemployed, the chances of us being evenly distributed in the world's time zones is slim. So to do serious analysis, I wonder if there is a way to automate this - well, there is, but do we know how? (I basically, don't) If so, then we could get a picture of the total number interested enough in webOS to visit, Registered users who still visit and I suppose frequent registered visitors. Another point is that I've been surprised about how many other sites are still out there. There maybe a lot more users on bbs.zoopda for example.

    On the other hand, the figures we are interested in are: Total webOS users (the potential market), visitors (the interested), registered users (the very interested) and those willing to participate. I'd say the most important numbers were the first and last. We may still have to guess at the first, but the last will be clear as it will be those who sign up to the group. Making a big assumption about the contributors here, that number is currently 10.

    After all that, I have no conclusion, but I hope this is useful feedback.

    P.S. It's no longer the case, but for a while, this was the top trending thread, and I was top and most thanked poster! I'd like to bragg about it, but in reality, it shows how little activity there is.
    I think that there are many people like myself who do not always log into our account in order to check what is going on in the forum. We are the "lurking ones", who because of lack of skills, time or major finances to contribute, do not tend to be as directly active in the forums. But, we still have a keen interest in Web OS, and would like to see it continue as a viable operating system, including new hardware that is Web OS specific. Many of us would contribute financially, even if it was in a small way, to some things that are concrete in nature regarding the advancement of Web OS. And, many of us would most likely purchase something as well. I for one am interested in the Android emulator software, even though I have the Android co-boot on my Touchpad. I appreciate the effort being made here to organize our community to help push Web OS forward. I think it is a wonderful constructive idea. Thanks for undertaking it, and thanks to all who have been contributing to help Web OS and the fellow users of it.

    Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    SWRHKP and Preemptive like this.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    For the phone versions, OTA updates have to be vetted and approved by the wireless carriers, regardless of the fact that some phones are sold unlocked... So it's a logistical fail either way
    Yeah, I was more aiming at unlocked devices. If we're gonna look at it from that perspective than webOS Ports cannot the Touchpads either because of the 4G ones...
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    A problem which Apple solved by basically using exactly one version of the software for everything, and virtually identical hardware for everything. And by having an absolutely ridiculous market share for the longest time.
    Actually, that is not true. The iPhone 5 uses slightly different hw here in The Netherlands to support our new 4G network which isn't supported by the iPhone 5 but they said to KPN (one of our biggest carriers) that they are gonna make a small hw change to support the bands necessary and the modified version wil be available starting this summer.
    Last edited by Vistaus; 05/28/2013 at 04:13 PM.
  12.    #72  
    It's nice to see so many posts and expressions of interest.

    I assume the following posters are willing to join a first group to see if we can get traction for a broader user group: Remy X, Vistaus, RumoredNow, ananimus, janthiemen. Feel free to correct any er... preemptive assumptions! ;-)

    Declared members: SWRHKP, sspirall, kbman2, Preemptive.

    If you've posted and feel I should have included you, then please correct me and obviously any viewers or lurkers who want to join in, please say so.

    Regarding commitment, as previously stated, it will be more about practical discussion and planning at least at first, should projects requiring more effort be proposed, they will stand or fall as they do now, on the level of voluntary effort.

    The first question I have is, should I start a new thread to discuss user group proposals that we can present to the wider community? This thread would remain to update the status report. Or perhaps you think that would dilute the discussion and we should try to cover everything on this thread. Comments please.

    For a while I've been wondering about including webOS-Internals as an entry on the report. They are obviously very important, but not a specific project, so I can't really offer a status other than "in existence"! I could put in Preware 2 as "in progress". Any thoughts?

    I can't find a way to get the webOSnation newsletter, so maybe I missed the boat at sign up. Obviously, the user group isn't webOSnation. I have noted it as a proposal to produce a user group newsletter.

    If we are to ask webOSnations for permission to collect basic data, Derek Kessler would be the obvious first contact. I'm willing to send a message, but if anyone with a bit more community status wants to that, please do. I think we're clear about what data and the period of a month. We might want to resample at future dates - probably to measure decline! ;-)
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    ...I assume the following posters are willing to join a first group to see if we can get traction for a broader user group: ...RumoredNow...
    Count me in, Brother.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
    Preemptive likes this.
  14. #74  
    Count me also in!
    Preemptive likes this.
  15. #75  
    webOS is dead...so long, if we're honest!!!

    But I love it

    However, and to be honest: I have no interest in the project "Open webOS" because it NOT TAKE SERIOUSLY AT ALL to the old devices!!! I have no faith in LG or their purchase of webOS and HP is the most disgusting company in the mobile's world!!!

    That and all, I'm with webOS Internals and those interested in the beautiful existing devices now (Pre-, Pre+, Pre2, Pre3, Pixi, Pixi+, Veer, TouchPad!!!

    My regards!!!
    El Sendero del Samurai: Lealtad, Paz Interna, Paciencia y Meditar a los pies de Buda

    Samsung Galaxy S4 + Root / HP TouchPad 4G + CM10 / iPod Touch 5 + Jailbreak 6.1.3
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by sshaka View Post
    webOS is dead...so long, if we're honest!!!

    But I love it

    However, and to be honest: I have no interest in the project "Open webOS" because it NOT TAKE SERIOUSLY AT ALL to the old devices!!!

    [...]
    What do you mean?

    Because LunaCE for the Touchpad is the most that can be backported to old devices from open-source webOS, the rest is dependent on having the closed source code that HP does not plan on releasing... so the volunteers that are working on Open webOS are quite powerless in bringing its half-baked goodness to old devices..

    And besides, Open webOS lacks a lot of the stuff that the older devices do have (it has not been written yet)... No Synergy, no media file support, no app store...

    The Open webOS project is still only half-way to completion, but it will bear fruit by the time the old devices are no longer usable
    Preemptive likes this.
  17.    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by sshaka View Post
    webOS is dead...so long, if we're honest!!!

    [...]

    That and all, I'm with webOS Internals and those interested in the beautiful existing devices now (Pre-, Pre+, Pre2, Pre3, Pixi, Pixi+, Veer, TouchPad!!!

    My regards!!!
    So that's a no... or maybe a yes? ;-)
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    What do you mean?

    Because LunaCE for the Touchpad is the most that can be backported to old devices from open-source webOS, the rest is dependent on having the closed source code that HP does not plan on releasing... so the volunteers that are working on Open webOS are quite powerless in bringing its half-baked goodness to old devices..

    And besides, Open webOS lacks a lot of the stuff that the older devices do have (it has not been written yet)... No Synergy, no media file support, no app store...

    The Open webOS project is still only half-way to completion, but it will bear fruit by the time the old devices are no longer usable
    You're right! But for me, when old devices have already expired and webOS open is "theoretically" complete and working...a move to a new OS will have been final and irreversible!!!
    El Sendero del Samurai: Lealtad, Paz Interna, Paciencia y Meditar a los pies de Buda

    Samsung Galaxy S4 + Root / HP TouchPad 4G + CM10 / iPod Touch 5 + Jailbreak 6.1.3
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    So that's a no... or maybe a yes? ;-)
    I'm with webOS and the old devices...only for that...when they are no longer available, maybe because I've joined the ranks of a new OS...
    El Sendero del Samurai: Lealtad, Paz Interna, Paciencia y Meditar a los pies de Buda

    Samsung Galaxy S4 + Root / HP TouchPad 4G + CM10 / iPod Touch 5 + Jailbreak 6.1.3
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    I take it back. This:
    LG gaat telefoons uitbrengen op basis van een derde platform - Nieuwsbericht - All About Phones

    ...appears to be an outright denial of future webOS use. This is very depressing.

    I don't get it. For LG:
    * Tizen = Samsung - your direct & superior competitor = dumb move.
    * Firefox = Basic system that also happens to be 85% funded by Google and could therefore be stopped by Google. They probably won't stop it as long as it send users to Google services & advertising, but if the power of Google concerns you, = dumb move.
    Mozilla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    * Ubuntu = Maybe a better system.
    * Sailfish = Looks good.
    * webOS = YOU ALREADY OWN IT AND ARE DEVELOPING IT!
    LG as a whole dont own and use webOS, LG's TV division do and only them, never assume 1 company fully shares an interest in the tech all their combined divisions have access too, they are by and large utterly seperate.

    Unfortunatly any talk of "LG" and webOS is totally unrealistic if people are expecting new webOS phones/tablets, when we say LG and webOS it means nothing but televisions and has never even been hinted at otherwise.

    HP didnt share resources/tech between their divisions, commodore didnt, and lots of other infighting/dumb companys who are essentially split as totally seperate and individual entities will do exactly the same.

    As much as i dont like it, its just as pointless expecting a webOS LG phone as it is an HP one, we should stick to expecting results from any porting teams out there and thats about it.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
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