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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Probably not, but it would probably not be any worse either.
    i disagree, 300000+ souls out of job is not a good thing.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    i disagree, 300000+ souls out of job is not a good thing.
    I am sure they would find something else to do.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    i disagree, 300000+ souls out of job is not a good thing.

    And that there are so many millions of 'Jobs' without any 'Soul', is perhaps even less of a good thing!


    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
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  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutoidi View Post
    And that there are so many millions of 'Jobs' without any 'Soul', is perhaps even less of a good thing!

    HP's primary business is selling services (EDS) and hardware to large corporations who use it to run Windows and Linux. They have a few sidelines of course such as printers, cheap crappy consumer PCs and Apple knockoffs.

    Doesn't seem like a company with much "soul", particularly the EDS part.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    HP's primary business is selling services (EDS) and hardware to large corporations who use it to run Windows and Linux. They have a few sidelines of course such as printers, cheap crappy consumer PCs and Apple knockoffs.

    Doesn't seem like a company with much "soul", particularly the EDS part.
    this soul thing is not my idea, you guys turned my words. i was talking about 300000 and more workers possibly out of job.
    sledge007 likes this.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Calm down. The post wasn't directed solely at you or an attack against you. I really only focused on one sentence from your post, the rest was just to continue the discussion. The Touchpad was brought up because it has somehow become the scapegoat for HP's or webOS' failure.

    Android is troubled in the fact that it is littered with advertisements and malware. Some of the apps on it don't play well with other apps. Some apps and system components crash or lock-up causing you to reboot your entire system. I can say this from years of experience with multiple Android updates and hardware. In fact I am typing this from CM10 right now. I have a Motorola Photon that is driving me nuts (but it is a world phone, I'm overseas so I need it), my wife has a Galaxy S3, and my daughter has a EVO 3D that I get stuck "fixing" when I'm home. If webOS doesn't return to tablets in some form or another and my Touchpad dies, I'm going to buy an iPad. I don't have that much love for iOS but from what I have seen with the multitude of Android devices that get "abandon" by their manufacturers, the load of trouble setting up simple things on some Android devices (get the APN right for the network I'm on was a PITA), the crashes and software issues on "premier" Android devices, I would rather have Apple's walled garden then Google so called freedom. I keep hoping it will get better but it just seems to get worse and worse.

    If you get a chance, read my post about the trouble I am having with Android in Afghanistan right now. Only reason I'm in CM10 right now is that I am at a place with a 1/2 way decent connection for a few hours so I am taking the time to update some apps on the system. Hopefully they will behave. I probably won't have time like this to do this again for a while.
    Some Windows editions have been ranked among the worst OS for vulnerability and stability. That didn't stop them to conquer 97% of PC market. How many Android devices have been shipped last quarter? How many S4 did Samsung sell in one month? Android is gaining ground each quarter even versus Apple. I understand your point of view as a consumer with bad Android experience. But you cant judge a company strategy based on your very own opinion. If you'd have read carefully my posts you'd see that I'm always referring to HP strategy from a business point, because the OP original rant was towards Meg W. "stupid" declarations. What you or me personally think doesn't matter as long as the consumer market is embracing it. I'm not saying the will have big success with Android, just that going Android at the point they are now make sense. In fact as I stated before the Android position seems for me right now more like a strategic speech. In 6 months or so they announced only 2 Android devices with only one started shipping last month. But before the first Slate even hit stores, the Android news made much for HP financial health.
    HP didn't abandon webOS for windows, they just (temporally) quit the market. They are not abandoning windows for Android or Chrome. How many windows machine did they announce for back to school Vs Android devices?

    You talked about innovation at HP I gave you a short list for recent years.
    I know we're on a fan site, but it would be nice to keep our objectivity and talk about facts.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by WebOS Rocks View Post
    This is just another silly response... you really don't know the history here and it is silly to be spiteful with shallow responses that don't go into the true history of bad decisions around WebOS that started at Palm. Let go of that chip on your shoulder and keep things in perspective for goodness sake.

    -WebOS Rocks!
    Please don't change my words:

    1) I told nothing about bad decisions from Palm
    2) You don't know me enought to told if I know something or not
    3) Leo followed the Mark Hurd strategy until lost his control and try to kill the webOS with the pressure.
    4) The HP strategy to webOS was:

    http://i.imgur.com/FkZivnB.png


    Best Regards...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vity Traff View Post
    Then you shouldn't be that happy. The point is that investors are buying on Meg W. Strategy. HP shares jumped 100% in 6 months, even after poor sales report hpq was up 17% yesterday. Of course shares price is not all but for a company that hit it's historical low 6 months ago, restoring confidence is a priority. And the easier and more secure way to go is Android. WebOS would be a smarter move, maybe, but it would have been a strategic bet and the market just don't like uncertainties. Going Android is a positive signal to the market. It doesn't even matter how many Android devices they will sell in the end, right now they are buying themselves time to try to implement the turnaround strategy. If there is something the Street don't give struggling companies, it's time, look at Dell why do you think they are trying to go private? With her diversification announcement Meg easily bought herself a year or so. Also it's a message to Microsoft. Don't forget they caught OEM by surprise with the Surface. HP decided to not produce windowsRT devices and now they are sending a message to Redmond:'' You might need us more than we need you. Because we can find an ecosystems as powerfull as yours". It's something you can't do with webOS right now, it has 0% market share.

    About the devices themselves the Slate7 is a crap but it's a cheap crap and the coming Spilt with Tegra 4 is receiving good feedbacks.
    Trying to analyze a Corp like HP strategy through your biased webOS fan's eyes just don't make any sense.

    About recent innovation at HP a non exhaustive list
    Project Moonshot: don't know if they won't screw it, but this has the potential to change servers business with the release of 64bits Arm CPUs, next gen Atom and low voltage AMD CPUs.
    Officejet X
    Memristor: thought I wonder if it will ever hit the market
    TM2 design: older but damn that thing was sexy
    the original Envy spectre: because I'm tired of all the aluminium alike pcs
    Glasses free 3D tech
    And recent leaks reveal that they had one of the first Transformer Tablet design
    Changes nothing: gonna lost a lot of money!


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Changes nothing: gonna lost a lot of money!


    Best Regards...
    Great sense of argumentation
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vity Traff View Post
    Some Windows editions have been ranked among the worst OS for vulnerability and stability. That didn't stop them to conquer 97% of PC market. How many Android devices have been shipped last quarter? How many S4 did Samsung sell in one month? Android is gaining ground each quarter even versus Apple. I understand your point of view as a consumer with bad Android experience. But you cant judge a company strategy based on your very own opinion. If you'd have read carefully my posts you'd see that I'm always referring to HP strategy from a business point, because the OP original rant was towards Meg W. "stupid" declarations. What you or me personally think doesn't matter as long as the consumer market is embracing it. I'm not saying the will have big success with Android, just that going Android at the point they are now make sense. In fact as I stated before the Android position seems for me right now more like a strategic speech. In 6 months or so they announced only 2 Android devices with only one started shipping last month. But before the first Slate even hit stores, the Android news made much for HP financial health.
    HP didn't abandon webOS for windows, they just (temporally) quit the market. They are not abandoning windows for Android or Chrome. How many windows machine did they announce for back to school Vs Android devices?

    You talked about innovation at HP I gave you a short list for recent years.
    I know we're on a fan site, but it would be nice to keep our objectivity and talk about facts.
    Google's motto when they first started out was "Do no evil". I believe that was directed solely at Microsoft, the so called evil empire. It's funny now that we compare their OS to Microsoft's. Crappy and full of holes but since it is cheap and on just about every platform, that somehow makes it alright. I think we need to demand more from them and hold their feet to the fire so in the end we don't get stuck with something similar to Microsoft's crap taking over the phone industry.

    About 1 hour ago I was talking to my wife long distance on my Android phone. The call dies. I tried to call her back and the phone app would not work. Then the whole device started acting squirrelly. I had to reboot it just to make another phone call. This is not the first time this has happened. I told my wife what happened and she told me that the GPS on my daughter's phone stopped working and Sprint can't figure out why. It is also an Android phone. These are not my opinions on the matter, these are things that are actually happening and more frequently than I would like. I'm having trouble with big named Android phones. Not good.

    It pains me that excuses are made for Android because it is gaining in market share yet if the Pre stuttered once, it was condemned or if the Touchpad had a sound issue that was easily fixed it was condemned. Seems like people are being sheepish fans of a winning team.Plus Android's gains stem from the dozens of companies using it against the one company using iOS. Funny thing is that the one company is holding its own against the onslaught and making more money then all of the Android devices agaisnt it combined (I embellished a little). Apple will release a new iPhone and iPad, then pull ahead again, then dropped back slightly until another product line is released. That is if history repeats itself again. Meanwhile HP has returned to a strategy that it said itself was not sustainable for growth, which is producing hardware in a crowded market (Android and Windows products) for low profit margins. Also not good (in my opinion).

    As for the innovative HP products you mentioned, I never heard of them so I did not comment. I know from speaking with other consumers that HP was not known for innovating anything until they announced producing webOS devices. I also know that I am not a business major nor try to speak like one. I'm a consumer and from that stand point I have no faith in HP or their Android strategy. I would say that I wish them luck, but right now I hate everything that they stand for.

    I also did not agree with the OP's personal attack against Meg and let it be known in my first post on this thread.

    Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2
    Remy X, Rnp and geekpeter like this.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vity Traff View Post
    Great sense of argumentation
    Yes, I agree!


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
    p41m3r likes this.
  12. #32  
    It is sad that there are many here that harbor anger or hate... the reality is that WebOS lost... get over it. Move on. #keepperspective.

    I'd be willing to wager that HP will sell more of their new coming Android Slatebook X2 in the same amount of time as the HP TouchPad... anyone want to make that bet?

    Personally, I look forward to WebOS running on Android!

    WebOS Rocks!
  13. #33  
    "Anger"? "Hate"? I'm having fun a lot!!! Hahahahahaha

    For other side... "reality"? "lost"? Until now, there is nothing "RIP" the webOS.

    Look, the webOS is in LG hands. So, if you have no one information from inside the Korean brand, nobody can inform if is lost or not, right?

    And sorry for I don't share you fatalism... my sky is not falling in my head!


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by WebOS Rocks View Post
    It is sad that there are many here that harbor anger or hate... the reality is that WebOS lost... get over it. Move on. #keepperspective.

    I'd be willing to wager that HP will sell more of their new coming Android Slatebook X2 in the same amount of time as the HP TouchPad... anyone want to make that bet?

    Personally, I look forward to WebOS running on Android!

    WebOS Rocks!
    So you post on a webOS forum that we should get over webOS? Really? Wonder how far that's going to go...

    Since we don't have the actual number of TouchPad's sold and HP probably won't release the number of Slatebook X2 sold (did they release the number of Slate 7 solds?), it would be rather hard to prove who wins the wager if you were taken up on your bet.

    How are you going to run webOS on Android? I thought PIC stopped that project and now favors running Android apps on webOS? Maybe run webOS on Android hardware??

    I believe that harboring hate towards HP is warranted, give the situation. It is a natural reaction to what has transpired.
  15. #35  
    I have now moved onto android
    Motorola is my preferred hardware maker

    If hp ever makes the best Android device ever, I'm still not buying

    If hp is the last android device maker left, I'm leaving android

    Yes, I hate hp

    Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX, but webOS is always in me...
  16. #36  
    Ever since the aquiring of Compaq, we have seen, that HP's strongsuit is not being in front of everything, but rather tagging along in the rear of the field. The demise of iPAQs is but one example, that even before Leopocalypse HP was never able to understand the possibilities of the assets they've aquired. Palm/WebOS is just another example in a long line.

    So no, I am not surprised, that HP jumps on the Android bandwagon long after Android is already established. They do not have the courage, strength, agility, general shape and stamina and farsightedness to cope with something as revolutionary as WebOS was. It's like giving an electron microscope to a farmer and ask him to make something out of it. He might probably use it as a plow ...

    So instead of being innovative and courageous, HP rather starts doing things, that nearly everyone else does, thus only joining the party years too late.

    That's HP.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
    k4ever and RumoredNow like this.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
    Ever since the aquiring of Compaq, we have seen, that HP's strongsuit is not being in front of everything, but rather tagging along in the rear of the field. The demise of iPAQs is but one example, that even before Leopocalypse HP was never able to understand the possibilities of the assets they've aquired. Palm/WebOS is just another example in a long line.
    That is true. The (symbolic) Silicon Valley founder was once one of the top innovative tech companies from the beginning developing signal generators, test and scientific research equipment, to the early PC years. That began to change with a shift from the so-called HP Way - a decentralized leadership model - and the board's decision to recruit fresh leadership from outside the company. The new focus was on CEOs who were press/camera savvy and who were believed to be the cut-throat types ready to do anything to compete in a new dog-eat-dog era. Gone were the knowledgeable, capable but clumsy-looking geek types who placed emphasis on innovation and R&D.

    The years since Fiorina have underscored the new approach of acquisitions and follow the leader, and that has been reflected in the company value. The story has been the same under successive spineless CEOs (although R&D investments under Hurd seemed to have paid dividends) and board members who wasted money on ill-advised, poorly executed or failed acquisitions (Compaq, 3Com, Voodoo, EDS, Autonomy, Palm).

    That HP's current prices are worse than those under Fiorina is just pathetic. I thought it was near impossible to out-do her.

    Back on topic, the Android gamble alone wont result in increased value for HP. In a market of me-too software peddlers, the emphasis has to be on superior innovative hardware and services; so far HP has not shown that. Their approach to mobile seems to be patterned after their PC model and thats bad since the division is shrinking. 7% margins may have worked for PCs with their scale, but Im not sure whats going to happen here (a repeat of webOS-gate?).

    One thing is clear: if an Android titan like HTC is said to be in freefall then HP will need much better game.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    RumoredNow likes this.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by p41m3r View Post
    That is true. The (symbolic) Silicon Valley founder was once one of the top innovative tech companies from the beginning developing signal generators, test and scientific research equipment, to the early PC years. That began to change with a shift from the so-called HP Way - a decentralized leadership model - and the board's decision to recruit fresh leadership from outside the company. The new focus was on CEOs who were press/camera savvy and who were believed to be the cut-throat types ready to do anything to compete in a new dog-eat-dog era. Gone were the knowledgeable, capable but clumsy-looking geek types who placed emphasis on innovation and R&D.

    The years since Fiorina have underscored the new approach of acquisitions and follow the leader, and that has been reflected in the company value. The story has been the same under successive spineless CEOs (although R&D investments under Hurd seemed to have paid dividends) and board members who wasted money on ill-advised, poorly executed or failed acquisitions (Compaq, 3Com, Voodoo, EDS, Autonomy, Palm).

    That HP's current prices are worse than those under Fiorina is just pathetic. I thought it was near impossible to out-do her.

    Back on topic, the Android gamble alone wont result in increased value for HP. In a market of me-too software peddlers, the emphasis has to be on superior innovative hardware and services; so far HP has not shown that. Their approach to mobile seems to be patterned after their PC model and thats bad since the division is shrinking. 7% margins may have worked for PCs with their scale, but Im not sure whats going to happen here (a repeat of webOS-gate?).

    One thing is clear: if an Android titan like HTC is said to be in freefall then HP will need much better game.
    I globally agree with your analysis (one on very few written with sense and objectivity in this thread). However I'm choked by the aura surrounding Mark Hurd. Ok on HP's CEOs standards he's among the best, but he has his responsibility on the company decline. He was mostly responsible for R&D cut. Look at this chart, you'll see the decline under his tenure: HP's R&D Spending - Business Insider.
    he's been prayed for the company success but people forget the growth was mostly on costs save. The company went crazy on cost saving attempt. After massive layoffs they were at a point were local bureau were trying to save on light bulbs and office supplies! His HR management was just a shame. He has his own dog acquisitions as well: EDS, Palm...
    On R&D expenses, yes it declines but they are in line % wise with others OEM & assemblers and they total amount is lower but not so far from software Cos and original designers. The problem is not actually how much they spend (Apple has been spending far less) but how and where they spend it. In fact the ”research" is still good at HP is the 'development" that is questionable.
    Your chart is really unfair to Meg W. You can't blame her in any way for the big fall that led to the historical low. If you look closely you'll see that it's a direct consequence of Leo's August 18, and the massive write downs for EDS, Palm (acquired by Hurd) and Autonomy(Leo). The fact is hpq is the best 2013 best DOW performer so far (100% rise in 6 months), investors confidence is being restored, even bitter analysts start to say the turnaround might be working. Of course the road is still long with huge challenges
    Last edited by Vity Traff; 05/29/2013 at 10:43 AM.
  19. #39  
    Thx!
    Re Hurd's tenure, well put!
  20. #40  
    The problem is not actually how much they spend (Apple has been spending far less)
    For other side, the Apple has a lot of patents that fall as "pseudo value"... fall fast in any judgment...

    But... hey! Hurd was in HP when the global crisis begun. Of course, he had to cut something... everybody was cutting...

    The fact is hpq is the best 2013 best DOW performer so far (100% rise in 6 months)
    When you're get down fast, is more easy grow your shares fast... remember: he company lost $ 28bi in one week...

    Hurd was not an "angel"; of course, but he seemed to have some idea...

    In the end, nothing about is really important... I'm (and I believe that there is more members here) worried is about I have more interesting devices with webOS...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
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