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  1.    #1  
    I'm waiting for any webOS device, from any brand...

    Android was less than trash in first devices, but have great hardware now.

    The Android's compatibility is not saving the Rim, the same way that I don't believe that ACL cannot save any mobile SO.

    The same way, the "hardware's port" cannot save any plataform!

    I see that there is a big mistake to many peoples: "thousands of apps guarantee the plataform's sucess", and this is a wrong idea...

    What give the sucess is: device for sale, price for sale & ads.

    Let's gonna the lessons that we have... in the begining, the IPhone has no apps and was a sucess. Why? Because has the carrier ads (the IPhone ad to carrier was "you can sell the data plan" and; with this idea, the own carrier was speaking about. Before the IPhone, was hard to sell some data plan to customer browse in bad devices. Just try to imagine sell some ilimited data plan to use in Blazer, and compare with webkit...).
    After start in USA, the Apple has sold the IPhone in so many countries that could.
    What do you have here?
    Ads & the customers can buy the device. Apps gave no help.

    The IPad came following the IPhone's sucess; so, has many ads. But the real ad was come not from IPhone, but from Newspapers and Magazines, that was trying to find some way to gain more money, and the IPad was this promisse. Since launched, all press gave the IPad the throne, waiting sell his digital editions to millions... well, good or not, they made many space to IPad in press! I know many dozens that bought the IPad without know what can do or not. To complete, you can find the IPads for sell in any country that you go.
    What do you have here?
    Ads & the customers can buy the device. Apps gave no help.

    The Android begun to sell with bad devices, but many brands begun to create cheap & expensive devices, and sell in so many countries that could. After you can find the devices in all world, everybody begun to stay happy with his "smartphones" (good or not - the "smartphone" name is an ad) and the own Google worked with the brands about ad to Android name.
    What do you have here?
    Ads & the customers can buy the device. Apps gave no help.

    The "thousands of apps" was a good ad, but is nothing that can really save some plataform... the really interesting is have the "right apps" - a GOOD Office Suit, good e-mail, good IM support (Whatsapp today, for example... MSN Messenger, in past), good Social Network support (Facebook, Google Plus, Foursquare, Twitter, Instagram... today, of course), DESKTOP SYNC (the most people that I know like to manage the PIM in desktop or notebook, and is VERY faster transfer your 01GB of videos and photos using the USB and local Wifi than 3G), DESKTOP BACKUP (yes! Everybody like to have his backup in cloud, but EVERYBODY trust more in local restore, because the Internet connection can have some problem!).

    Ok, if have newspaper and magazines is better for tablet than for phone, but is not the most important in begining... buy movies, TV series and books is more interesting. PDF Viewer, too. And; of course, Internet browser.

    All you can see that the Windows Phone have thousands of apps, but is hard to gain space. Why? Because the own system is not simple, is beautifull and not elegant...

    The webOS is simple. Is beautifull. Is elegant. And need have devices.

    Serious, I told and repeat: if the webOS has Portuguese (BR) language, I was selling the Veer to many womans here, in Brazil! Excelent device, beautifull and elegant SO.

    But... let's gonna see the webOS: launched in few coutries, first in CDMA version (hard to use in other carrier than GSM), only in Sprint... and after release the GSM version, was expensive. Putz!

    Just to finish: all you remember the first Samsung Android? His name was "Galaxy". Look all Samsung devices (are so many!) since the original Galaxy until the S3, and try to imagine the webOS making the same from Palm Pre Classic until the Pre 3... and beyond.

    What gave to the Samsung the throne was not the apps... was the devices being sold.

    Yes... sometimes, the brute force can be the best strategy. Ask it to Samsung.

    I don't need of 900+ apps to share my 3G connection... I only need the Freetheter... Think about that...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  2. #2  
    Considering how much I've been playing with Android lately (a lot), and how slow and unintuitive the system is, I just don't even know what the magic is. I guess it's just throwing hardware at the speed problem until it goes away, and having a whole crapton of "barely functional" apps. A big problem on the PlayBook is that not only do the Android apps barely function (but when they do, they are much faster than on a native Android platform!), it's mostly got a huge, huge collection of the absolute most useless garbage available.
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  3. #3  
    ACL is at least an option, dont have to take it, and webOS native apps tend to stand quite firm over the android ones ive made a collection of and rarely use, only ones i use a lot of are tv apps and netflix, those would be my ACL options.
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  4. #4  
    Of course, apps arent as big of a deal.
    BUT, the average joe cares about 200,000 apps, because that's what is advertised. (when Pocket PC makers were competing with Palm, they focused on making specs matter, not the UX.)

    The iPhone sold because it was well marketed, and was more fashion-y than functional.

    webOS is not the simplest, i have my doubts some people would want to spend 30 seconds learning those gestures.

    The smartphone market has changed since the iPhone arrived. I frankly don't need all those apps, but that's just me.


    The biggest thing is advertising though. Palm's and HP's print ads were terrible. (in that i never saw them, except for the "Everybody On" one with the Veer. Which was bad)
    the creepy lady was terrible
    the VZW calendar one with granny was TERRIBAD
    and Everybody On was TERRIBAD-ISMAL (they said nothing about the product)
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  5. #5  
    For me, until ACL is actually released, it's vaporware. OpenMobile said they should have it released "Q3 2012" which ends on Sept 30th. We'll see.... Anyhow, I agree with the OP that hardware is the most important item for the webOS future right now. Get it running on some great devices and the devs will follow.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 09/03/2012 at 02:29 PM.
    T-Pad, geekpeter and Rnp like this.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    Considering how much I've been playing with Android lately (a lot), and how slow and unintuitive the system is, I just don't even know what the magic is. I guess it's just throwing hardware at the speed problem until it goes away, and having a whole crapton of "barely functional" apps. A big problem on the PlayBook is that not only do the Android apps barely function (but when they do, they are much faster than on a native Android platform!), it's mostly got a huge, huge collection of the absolute most useless garbage available.
    i find even when reading user reviews of android apps that their good comments and an apps general awesomeness only seems to apply to an earlier particular patch/version, then i find several patches/updates later their actually suddenly crap or dont work properly, and you get more users slowly mentioning the same over time.

    so yeah i read and read and read and check forums/app stores and find a "good app" and it may have been good onec but by the time ive got it, its been updated and turns to rubbish, that or it was made for an earlier version/flavour of android or for a specific set of devices and more issues arise.
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  7. #7  
    Q3 ends on Oct 1st. Maybe you are thinkng about trimesters. Not that it matters. I will be shocked if it happens and works as advertised.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    HelloNNNewman likes this.
  8.    #8  
    webOS is not the simplest, i have my doubts some people would want to spend 30 seconds learning those gestures.
    Wrong. The webOS can be used only as touch. Try, and you gonna discover that gestures are only options. Anyway, the tutorial is there.

    In the end, apps is only important if the people have some device to use. Without devices, the best app is nothing.


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
    Vistaus likes this.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Wrong. The webOS can be used only as touch. Try, and you gonna discover that gestures are only options. Anyway, the tutorial is there.

    In the end, apps is only important if the people have some device to use. Without devices, the best app is nothing.


    Best Regards...
    Oh yea, I was thinking of the phones. My bad.
    even though the up gesture is not required, there isnt really a back gesture replacement in 1.x-2.x
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    Q3 ends on Oct 1st. Maybe you are thinkng about trimesters. Not that it matters. I will be shocked if it happens and works as advertised.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Doh... you're right. It ends Sept 30th (I just thought Sept). Post updated
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by xandros9 View Post
    Oh yea, I was thinking of the phones. My bad.
    even though the up gesture is not required, there isnt really a back gesture replacement in 1.x-2.x
    The back gesture on the Pre 3 is a bit flawed though. Sometimes it recognizes it as up or very rarely as an app switch. So it does need some work. Up is working flawless though, never had a time that up didn't recognize right.
  12. #12  
    Its really hard to define what necessary components are for platform to be successful. I believe its not related to apps only. Today's mobile platforms are something like media consumption portals and less phones with powerful PIM. So, if platform is isolated from various media content, no useful apps, intuitive UI or good performance will save it.
  13. #13  
    This is like what I've been thinking. Android is a horrible programming software. But I'm pretty sure once hardware makers make hardware I think Application makers will make a bunch more stuff for webOS.
  14. #14  
    Rnp, you've made a good point. Apps alone are not the main problem (although in the past "where are the apps?" has been a problem when trying to convert outsiders to webOS).

    Hardware is the number one issue facing webOS at this time.

    Having more Apps does help. It goes back to the marketing you talked about. It IS a selling point.

    Ports is not a selling point. Telling someone they have to find the right hardware and modify it themselves to get a working webOS turns off too many consumers.

    webOS needs more than one OEM with deep pockets that want to push and push to get a unique approach recognized in the market. 5 models minimum... That sounds about right at a guess. Big $$$$ to affordable. A spectrum of phones being offered with Open Source webOS. Part of the Palm/HP marketing model failure was the single entry. It was always I have this one phone it is pretty cool. That is the Apple model and, IMHO, a fluke that it ever worked. Android thrives on multiple new hardware releases every quarter. Consumers want choice or lockstep. Individuality to a degree (Android) or the security of feeling that they have a best possible effort and a consistent experience from a singular device (iPhone).

    Apple built a juggernaut out of reliability and consistency. Hard to fight that model from humble beginnings.

    How many OEMs would it take to get 5 or 6 phones into the market that run webOS right out of the box? More than one, unless it was Samsung. I don't look for S to take on webOS, despite akitayo's philosophy of wanting to court them. Their money is tied up in Android and why would they vacate that throne?

    If we could convince deep pocket players like Sony, LG, HTC to produce one or two webOS handsets that would be a good start with a chance. And tablet makers like Acer, Panasonic and Archos to make a model or two...

    Apple should not be the prime target. Android and Samsung should be. Get those who want a bit of individuality and originality. Others will follow and perhaps some Apple-heads as well. It's about choice, yes? Isn't that the best selling point we have?

    My (long winded) two cents.


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  15. #15  
    i dont see it as the chicken OR the egg first, we need both.

    (hardware+apps, or at least dev interest leading into eventual apps)
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  16.    #16  
    Rumored,

    Until where I can see, the HP was with the perfect strategy: small, middle, big and premium phone, small and big tablet. (Veer, Pre 2, Preł, "Windsornot", TP Go, TP).

    This way, you can go to market and sell to all kind of customers. Serious, the Samsung are crazy trying to make the same (Galaxy 5, y, mini, etc, etc, etc), and the Sony too.

    Geekpeter,

    You can have hardware with apps, but cannot have apps without hardware. So; yes, the (good) chicken need come first, with the most important eggs together... leaving other eggs for a second moment...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
    geekpeter likes this.
  17. #17  
    Suddenly I am hungry...

    It tough to get started with a new ecosystem now that the sheeple have been spoiled by so many apps available for iPhone and android phones, even while most are completely unnecessary. I use maybe 3 or 4 apps regularly, even though I have installed many.
    xandros9 likes this.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Rumored,

    Until where I can see, the HP was with the perfect strategy: small, middle, big and premium phone, small and big tablet. (Veer, Pre 2, Preł, "Windsornot", TP Go, TP).
    Right... Palm had a few models out there, but they were generational.... 1+1+1... released over time... NOT "Look at these 3 models coming next quarter!!!"

    HP's marketing model of Veer, Touchpad, Pre 3 and Go with planned release for the same 6 month span, more or less, is exactly the saturation needed for effective repetition in the short term memory of consumers that translates to long term memory retention so they REMEMBER webOS when it comes time to purchase. It's a pity this was cut so violently short.

    One company, adopting Open webOS, is unlikely to throw more than one device out there to test the waters. It won't make a large enough splash...

    However, a Sony phone, two LG phones, an Archos tablet, an HTC phone, two Panasonic tablets... all in 6-12 months. All those ripples add up and make a small wave that consumers will have to see and take note of.

    I'm not saying that is likely to happen. I'm simply asserting that is what is needed for Open webOS to take hold in the marketplace and have a viable chance at succeeding.

    Witness RIM. They, like Palm, rely on proprietary built, generational release rather than some type of saturation through multiple OEMs. We all know the state of RIM today. I repeat that the Apple model is a fluke and hard to duplicate. Especially at this point in the mobile game. Conditions are radically different than 2007 and consumer expectation is rather more informed and demanding.
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  19. cgk
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    #19  
    But your post explains why it is never going to happen - those companies are not all going to adopt webOS without a vibrant ecosystem and nobody seems willing to put down the money to do so. It is even less likely in a world where Google and amazon are releasing tablets at cost or a slight loss - who wants to compete against that? The other option to try and take on apple and Samsung at the top end - best of luck with that.

    WebOS is going to be a really fun hobbyist os and people should enjoy it for what it is not what it could have been.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
  20. #20  
    We've done this chicken and egg dance before...

    You say all the mobile OEMs not making money will just die off or wander away from the marketplace in disgust.

    I say that companies don't readily abandon a chance at such riches and will want to fight for a share.
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