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  1.    #1  
    I'm just posting this here in case some of you missed it. It's one hell of a read...

    Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge
    Want to keep up with my exciting new projects? You know where to find me.
  2. #2  
    Thanks man... so sad that I feel like I need a tub of popcorn and a box of Kleenex to read this.
  3.    #3  
    Yea, being a webOS guy since the very beginning, it was hard to read. It's amazing how everything that could have gone wrong did. Sigh...
    Want to keep up with my exciting new projects? You know where to find me.
  4. #4  
    Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge


    "It quickly became evident, though, that HP's financiers (up to and including CFO Cathie Lesjak) didn't share Hurd's enthusiasm. At that time, Apple was almost singlehandedly dominating the smartphone supply chain and it took an enormous commitment — the kind of commitment that only a giant like HP could offer — to tip the scale. "We told HP we needed better displays [for the Pre 3]. They'd come back and say, ‘Apple bought them all. Our suppliers tell us we need to build them a factory if we want the displays' and they weren't willing to put the billion dollars upfront to do that," one source said. "The same thing happened with cameras. We'd pick a part, turns out Apple picked the same part. We were screwed left and right." Without HP's full financial support to buy its way into relevance, Palm was essentially left to pick from the corporate parts bin — a problem that would strike particularly hard later on with the TouchPad.

    And while Palm was fighting the battle of dollars and sense on the HP front, Blowfish (webOS 2.0) had become a massive undertaking for the company that spanned the better part of a year. Important people started to leave. Mike Abbott, who'd been instrumental in getting Luna pushed through before the launch of the Pre, left HP for Twitter just days before the acquisition was announced. Then Matias Duarte — the man who in many ways represented the soul of webOS — announced his departure in May to join the Android team under old friend Andy Rubin, a job that he'd turned down two years prior when he came to Palm. Though the HP acquisition may have accelerated his departure, sources tell us that Duarte had one foot out the door even beforehand. "Matias leaving set us back months and months and months," we're told."

    "Another took a more diplomatic view. "Look at what Microsoft is doing with Windows Phone — it's going to be billions and billions of dollars over a bunch of years to buy yourself into third place. I think Hurd knew that and saw that as the future, whereas Léo said no. It's a totally fair decision. [Spending that much money] is a ballsy thing to have to do."

    "The "options" that HP had alluded to in its press release included an outright sale of webOS, which many inside the company saw as the last hope to saving the platform. Among the suitors were Amazon and Facebook, though talks didn't get very far; at the end, the two who came closest were Google and Apple. "There was never an offer in writing, but talks got far enough along so that Google had verbally communicated something to HP," we're told. It's believed that Apple got involved only to drive the price up or keep webOS out of Google's hands altogether."

    Don't blame Leo or Sprint.
    Last edited by barrysanders20; 06/05/2012 at 03:07 PM.
  5. #5  
    <Threads merged>
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
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    #6  
    Interesting behind the scenes history of webOS from The Verge. Have to say the future looks bleaker than I thought, and that was pretty bleak.

    Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge
  7. cgk
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    #7  
    Some very interesting nuggets about the current situation, sounds like the open sourcing is simply a tax dodge:

    "Now that McNulty's gone, I don't know who the hell is left," one source said. Entire departments in the webOS team are said to be empty or nearly empty. Though HP has never technically ruled out the possibility of making webOS hardware again, everyone we spoke to agreed that it no longer had the manpower to do so, even if it wanted to. A comeback would be "almost impossible," we were told.

    And the software situation isn't much better: skepticism is high that the company will still be able to hit its target of September for Open webOS 1.0, particularly in the face of growing layoffs both inside Palm and throughout HP. Multiple sources tell us that there are specific tax benefits to keeping Palm "on the books" until July 1st, the second anniversary of the completion of HP's acquisition, and that Whitman could conceivably drop the axe shortly thereafter — the internal roadmap apparently extends beyond that date, but as always, those plans are subject to change.
  8. #8  
    <<threads merged>>
  9. #9  
    I just have e one question. How much was HP paid buy apple to destroy webos?
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Some very interesting nuggets about the current situation, sounds like the open sourcing is simply a tax dodge:
    Someone told me it will last more than that. But it could be possible, anyways.
    Newness Developments apps:

  11. #11  
    I just finished reading the entire article... So sad. It literally was a perfect storm of epic proportions. Looking back, it's no wonder everything went so badly. A tiny team with no resources kept producing and producing, and kept getting stabbed in the back from multiple sources, both internally (HP's incompetent Leo) AND externally (Verizon). And to add more insults, even products that they did manage to complete in such a toxic environment didn't even get released.
    bluenote likes this.
  12. #12  
    How I hate to be right...
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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    How I hate to be right...
    thx for the link to that other thread and the other article. i've not been on the forums much lately so i haven't been following the webOS news. now having read both the latest article from The Verge and the NYT articles, i'm getting a better sense of what happened.

    i have a feeling the reason that Matias Duarte doesn't want to comment on anything webOS related has a lot to do with the NYT article. basically, palm was in a difficult position where they had a deadline that they'd committed to, with a vision that they wanted, but without the technology to deliver that vision.

    the path that palm took was to focus on the UX and the vision, and then go back and fix/swap out the scaffoldings holding up the grand palace. the problem was that they were hit by multiple storms (Verizon backstabbing, lack of time & resources, sale to HP, still lack of time & resources at HP) that kept making it worse and worse.

    Mercer's actually kind of right in that using webkit as a foundation wasn't the right choice, but it did get palm noticed and the funding it needed to give it a shot.

    having said that, using Mercer's java framework would've meant that the pre and whatever the OS was to be called wouldn't have made it to market in the summer of 2009. based on The Verge's account of how difficult it was to nail down the user experience using the java framework, what would have webOS (or whatever it'd been called) been like? ah... we'll never know :-)
  14. #14  
    jarring article. Some tidbits we didn't know about. Really a sad story and being a webOS faithful from the start it is really depressing to read this but it does seem to be a honest account from sources. Have CM9 installed on Touchpad but can still dual boot for nostalgia. There's no doubt this is the best gui interface with the cards that you slide and toss, how can the whole world not get it???? Mind-boggling

    Explains a lot too - for example why the touchpad looked like old iPad 1 parts that no-one wanted - sounds like HP wouldn't let them have more $$ to get better parts. Lotsa of bad decisions. Confirms rumors too i.e. the slab device stingray codenamed we had heard about

    It really does seem like the end now. I'm glad I've jumped ship to Android [Samsung Epic 4g w/keyboard] as of 9/2011 (wow, can't believe its been that long already) - seems nothing has really been acccomplished in the last 9 months of major significance. Article quotes "sources" who are skeptical about the 9/2012 open webos deadline and who wouldn't be after all these ppl have left including mcnulty too now. TechTray, What's Shaking and EasyPulse will live on the Google Play Store Thanks to phonegap. (Time unfortunately is limited and the versions are not as complete.)

    It'd be awesome if someone like cyanogenmod (Or webosinternals??) can take the good parts of webOS and create a interface for android (SImilar to Touchwiz by Samsung) to skin webOS onto android devices
  15. #15  
    "And yet…

    One of the things that makes technology fun is that it’s full of surprises, and even the smartest folks among us are unable to see the future clearly. If you’d been pondering the fate of Apple in 1996 and had wondered aloud if the nearly-moribund company might welcome Steve Jobs back, start making portable music players and phones and tablets, and become a massive distributor of music and movies — and if it might all lead to Apple becoming, by some measures, the most successful company on the planet — you would have been loony. And right.

    So even now, it feels extraordinarily unlikely, but not completely unthinkable, that WebOS could bounce back. All it requires is a series of unlikely events which nobody can predict. Wouldn’t it be cool if it happened?"

    WebOS: Dead? Oh, Sure, Almost Certainly — But Not Definitely | Techland | TIME.com
  16. #16  
    Holy cow, just read this below about win8 having apps and browser pages take up full screen and I just don't believe it is over for webOS, this past week I needed 5 cards open to send some emails on the touchpad, it would not have been possible with an app taking up full screen, i would have had to go to hard copy. Something is really going to have to shift once win8 hits...

    ttp://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/06/windows_8_microsoft_s_radical_operating_system_redesign_will_aggravate_you_to_no_end_.html
    the constant switching was annoying enough. But the effort it took to switch was even more trouble. If you’re using a touch-enabled computer, going from one open Web page to another requires swiping from the top of the screen to bring up icons of your open tabs, then tapping on the tab you want—a swipe and a tap, which feels like too much for a simple data entry task. But it’s even worse with a trackpad. To bring up the list of open tabs in Windows 8’s browser, you’ve got to hit the trackpad with two fingers, and then you have to switch back to one finger to choose the tab you want. This sounds easy, but if you’ve got to do it a half dozen times in a minute, the choreography becomes wearying. Things were especially difficult when I tried to mix selecting and copying text into the tab-switching routine. Then, for some reason, my fingers would frequently bring up the tab-switcher instead of selecting text or vice versa. The whole thing was such a mess that I eventually gave up and decided to switch my accounts using my Windows 7 desktop.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    Thanks man... so sad that I feel like I need a tub of popcorn and a box of Kleenex to read this.
    I couldn't agree more HelloNNNewman, I had to stop reading this article when I got to the point of that goof-ball ***** Leo Apotheker and his dislikes about the Palm WebOS Team and the brand itself. It was such a tragic sad story that I almost went down in tears almost like if I was there in the meetings with the WebOS team during those hard times. I had to take a break, even saved it on my ReadItLater Pro app to finish reading it later.....I couldn't reach the end of the story just saying......


    It's no wonder why the HP TouchPad failed big time, with the lack of funding and the scrapes they were getting to built components for the device out of whatever factory in Asia caused its demised. Plus, teams leaving and lack of talented teams with knowledge of the foundation framework that WebOS was built upon........ also caused it to failed, the random restarts and bugginess of the device was a killer to me when I first started the device.

    It's sad truth, and makes me ponder if Apotheker wasn't too much enthusiastic about the Palm WebOS....What makes us think that Mrs Whitman isn't any different ? Seeing that she doesn't want to make hardware(wants only Windows 8 tablets), people leaving to work to Google leaving the WebOS team in a pile of smoke without the necessary to finish this project off when the deadline hits in September, what's left out this thing of making WebOS open source ? Will they ever release it in a proper fashion, or will it be a Palm Pre Launch fiasco ?

    I'm in the mood to grab my torch, gasoline tanks and pair of matches and just head down to HP Headquarters to burn that place down in flames Lol....SO MAD!!!!!!!!!! HATE HP, HATE HP, HATE HP..... If webOS fails because of them(mrs whitman/HP) I hope that HP goes down as well like Palm went into Bankruptcy...there is nothing left for me to express than just hatred for HP.
    Owner of an HP TouchPad (32GB) and a brand new Palm Pre 3 (16GB) for VZ wireless.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    "And yet…

    One of the things that makes technology fun is that it’s full of surprises, and even the smartest folks among us are unable to see the future clearly. If you’d been pondering the fate of Apple in 1996 and had wondered aloud if the nearly-moribund company might welcome Steve Jobs back, start making portable music players and phones and tablets, and become a massive distributor of music and movies — and if it might all lead to Apple becoming, by some measures, the most successful company on the planet — you would have been loony. And right.

    So even now, it feels extraordinarily unlikely, but not completely unthinkable, that WebOS could bounce back. All it requires is a series of unlikely events which nobody can predict. Wouldn’t it be cool if it happened?"

    WebOS: Dead? Oh, Sure, Almost Certainly — But Not Definitely | Techland | TIME.com
    it took a legendary visionary like Jobs to revive Apple. they don't come by that often unfortunately. It would really take someone like Zuckerburg of Facebook to sweep up openwebOS and use it for their fabled facebook phone....

    And the big all mighty apple may in fact suffer the same fate as palm. All tech giants are vulnerable. Without Jobs, they too will suffer problems with innovation, bloat and bureaucracy. I predict It's almost inevitable (look at almost any industry)...giants too will fall/falter some day. Lets name a few in any industry = Yahoo, GM, CompUSA, Mitsubshi Big Screen TV's, Novell, WordPerfect, Lotus, Myspace, Gateway computers...
  19. #19  
    They've made all their milestones to date on openWebOS so I'm not ready to say that open WebOS will not come out in Sept.
    Whitman said a 3-5 year plan. The article seemed to say that she was very common sense and meant what she said.

    That said, she also wanted to see milestone successes such as 3rd party hardware developers and software devs too.

    Frankly, HP needs to have the option of its own OS in mobile as what if win8 sees sluggish adoption or poor adoption or what if it gets so commoditized that HP is slugging it out in the mud with the cheap hardware manufacturers?

    She gains more by keeping webOS alive as a wild card albeit with low investment. She doesn't gain anything by dropping it now, would hardly make a difference to the bottom line.
  20. #20  
    It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Google or Apple had actually purchased webOS. As the article says, Apple showed interest most likely to drive the price up and out of Google's interest range. But would either have simply absorbed it and shelved it, or pulled items to incorporate. Would have been interesting.
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