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  • 1 Post By p41m3r
  • 1 Post By nhavar
  1.    #1  
    Seems like even with all of the webOS expenses written off, things are not much different in HP land. It wasn't the OS nearly as much as it was the management, folks - current quarter, same as the last quarter:

    (Good management would have made sure that they presented their best product, hardware and software wise)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/te...nd-profit.html

    C
    Last edited by C-Note; 02/22/2012 at 08:57 PM.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  2. #2  
    Im sure its probably working out better than it would, had the events of last August not occur. IOW, they probably lost less this quarter, which resulted in higher profits. Keep in mind they did meet their forecasts.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    (Good management would have made sure that they presented their best product, hardware and software wise)
    Had they presented their best products (read: most profitable) the list would likely have enterprise services at the top, followed by printers, accessories and PCs. webOS products would not have even placed.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by p41m3r View Post
    Im sure its probably working out better than it would, had the events of last August not occur. IOW, they probably lost less this quarter, which resulted in higher profits. Keep in mind they did meet their forecasts.

    Had they presented their best products (read: most profitable) the list would likely have enterprise services at the top, followed by printers, accessories and PCs. webOS products would not have even placed.
    Right answers, wrong reason.

    Not sure what articles you are reading, maybe they met their projections but they didn't meet the even modest projections of many analysts. See the reaction of the stock market as proof.

    Wonder why Meg is talking about recapturing the spirit of innovation and releasing product that capture the imagination of the consumer. Because printers and cookie-cutter PC's will not do that. But I doubt that Android or Windows products released in the same fashion as their webOS efforts were would either.

    Do you think that if they had released the same product (the Touchpad) as an Android device at the same price it would have done better? Apparently that was their plan before acquiring webOS since I doubt that they build the infamous Android kernel after the decision to shut down webOS in August of last year.

    Do you think if they had release the Touchpad as an iOS product at the same price as the iPad 2 it would have sold at all?

    If they had rolled out a decent product (and made good decisions to that point)... perhaps webOS would not have been losing money. But, if you want to count all of the setup and startup costs of the Touchpad launch, lets be consistent. Since they didn't sell the first HP branded product until June or July... a whole 60 days worth of sales behind 9 months of inadequate planning, let's apply the same yardstick to the Autonomy purchase.

    I'd suppose with the increase in software revenues they are only 9.9 billion in the hole now for the autonomy deal. But wait, some of that was due to their existing software business so the purchase doesn't even get credit for all of the increase.

    (by the way percentages are very deceptive, see the below from CBS Marketwatch, - a 108% growth in services and only a 30% growth in revenue overall - hmmmmm)

    Software revenue grew 30% year over year with a 17.1% operating margin, including the results of Autonomy. Software revenue was driven by 12% license growth, 22% support growth and 108% growth in services

    The yardstick in business is sales compared to the same time time last year. Let's see how much the autonomy deal is making HP as compared to what they did independently (their 'scale' should make it slam-dunk success)

    Additionally, if they are coming out with a Windows tablet, lets see how well that will sell. I know the current one isn't doing very well.

    Nobody is saying (at least not me) that webOS as they had presented it and cared for it was going to take the world by storm, but the concept that webOS was the cause of HP's woes is simply not factual.

    HP was like the couple having marital problems who think having a baby will make things better. They couldn't give the proper attention to the baby and so it make everything else worse.

    If they had given it up for adoption to a good family, the baby would have had a better future. Instead, they tried to sell the baby to recover their cost, and when that failed, they put it in a basket on the curb, hoping a stranger will come by and take it in (open source).

    C
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  4.    #4  
    Straight from the horses mouth... In her own words: (from Network World article)

    Whitman gives HP harsh report card, outlines recovery plan

    Hewlett-Packard has underinvested in its business and become "too complex and too slow," President and CEO Meg Whitman said Wednesday, offering a three-part turnaround plan to get the ailing company back on track. ...

    It was a tough three months for HP, which saw its profit dive 44 percent and revenue decline by 7 percent. Its giant Personal Systems Group, where revenue skidded 15 percent, needs to build more innovative PCs, Whitman said.

    "The fact is that, for all that's right with PSG, we underinvested in innovation in the last several years and we've been late to market too often," Whitman said.

    She blamed last quarter's performance on the economy and on an industrywide shortage of disk drives. But she also admitted there are deeper problems at HP that need to be fixed.

    "For years, we've been basically running our business in silos. Under that model, we've built some of the biggest franchises in technology, but it's also made us too complex and too slow," Whitman said. .....

    Whitman implied she's in the latter camp. "We didn't make the investments we should have in the last few years to stay ahead of customer expectations and market trends," she said on the conference call. "As a result, we see eroding revenue and profits today." ...

    Next, HP must address the "ongoing problems" with each business unit, she said. That includes investing in technology for the future and streamlining processes and support services.

    The last part is to capitalize on what Whitman sees as dramatic shifts in technology, especially around cloud computing, information management and security, she said.

    It's a big challenge, not least because HP must find the money to reinvest in its businesses while continuing to deliver a profit to shareholders. "We have to save so that we can invest," Whitman said, meaning HP has to cut costs and become more efficient to get the money it needs to rebuild.

    "We know what we have to do, we have a plan to fix it, but it will take time," Whitman said. "This is a multiyear effort."
    Maybe she is hoping that the baby will still be on the curb 2 years from now when they are ready to invest again. Since as things stand right now, the future (in terms of growth) is in mobile technology (tablets outselling PC, iOS devices out selling pure MacOS devices, etc.) ... not in desktop systems.

    C
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  5. #5  
    I agree in general and I dont think that webOS was their problem. As was the case w/ Palm, Inc., HPs issues began years prior. My dislike for them began w/ the Compaq handling then grew w/ Voodoo and later Palm (their many mistakes and resulting policies re personal systems didnt help either). My point is that the damage over the years finally caught up to them and at the height of a cash hemorrhage, they had to slash and burn. Palm simply got caught up in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Wonder why Meg is talking about recapturing the spirit of innovation and releasing product that capture the imagination of the consumer. Because printers and cookie-cutter PC's will not do that. But I doubt that Android or Windows products released in the same fashion as their webOS efforts were would either.
    Its amazing how people can come to certain realizations after finding themselves up the creek.

    Do you think that if they had released the same product (the Touchpad) as an Android device at the same price it would have done better?
    Thats obvious; a quick look at the state of the Android tablet market - then and now - reveals all.

    Do you think if they had release the Touchpad as an iOS product at the same price as the iPad 2 it would have sold at all?
    Now this is interesting!
    There are so many variables - their mismanagement being the biggest - but I'd guess on the positive side. Not to digress, but such a device, already on a platform having major mind share, could have thrived as a faster enterprise model (no need for GPS or rear camera) w/ 2x the RAM and a beefier CPU. Who knows? Mindshare means a lot and presently, Apple mindshare seems to mean everything.

    ...let's apply the same yardstick to the Autonomy purchase.
    The Autonomy CEO was about the only one who thought the company was not way over value. Then again, being a seemingly rational guy, the straight face probably collapsed once the cameras went off. Again, I agree: bad decisions. I was under the impression that the many acquisitions were to create a webOS ecosystem. Turns out they had only the enterprise in mind.

    Maybe she is hoping that the baby will still be on the curb 2 years from now when they are ready to invest again. Since as things stand right now, the future (in terms of growth) is in mobile technology
    Unless they plan and build that infrastructure now, when that day comes, they will still be behind the curve; especially so if other manufacturers chose to invest in that baby in the meantime. I think there were too many mistakes to rebound from and the market is sometimes very unforgiving, but Meg looks like the kind of chick that works for her money, so HP may do it after all.
    Last edited by p41m3r; 02/24/2012 at 02:59 AM.
    C-Note likes this.
  6. #6  
    Thing is that PC business in general is in bad shape and not one company is doing well. HP is simply following this negative trend as anybody else except Apple. We can see everywhere this gigant disproportion between ravenue and profit.
  7. nhavar's Avatar
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    #7  
    These companies are failing to learn from the failures of others in the industry. Palm rested on it's laurels and failed BIG. Blackberry took it's place as king and then followed nearly the same path. Nokia? HP? Dell? Look at how fast companies can go from top of the heap to filing for bankruptcy. Lenovo just took second place in the PC market leapfrogging some of its competitors. HP has seen a dismal year and they're still looking at efforts one to two years out, based on the same plans they had two or three years ago. The mobile market is killing the old PC/Laptop market and probably even eroding the printer market; After all why would you need to print something if you can carry it electronically on any of your mobile devices. HP has essentially killed their mobile effort, or at least delayed it by a year or more. Meanwhile all of their competitors are refocusing to more and more mobile devices.

    The silverlining for HP is that they had some good growth in software this last year. Let's hope that they can leverage that growth and eventually get back on track with hardware. I don't see HP surviving as a software/service company only. There are too many better and more experienced players out there.
    C-Note likes this.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    These companies are failing to learn from the failures of others in the industry. Palm rested on it's laurels and failed BIG. Blackberry took it's place as king and then followed nearly the same path. Nokia? HP? Dell? Look at how fast companies can go from top of the heap to filing for bankruptcy. Lenovo just took second place in the PC market leapfrogging some of its competitors. HP has seen a dismal year and they're still looking at efforts one to two years out, based on the same plans they had two or three years ago. The mobile market is killing the old PC/Laptop market and probably even eroding the printer market; After all why would you need to print something if you can carry it electronically on any of your mobile devices. HP has essentially killed their mobile effort, or at least delayed it by a year or more. Meanwhile all of their competitors are refocusing to more and more mobile devices.
    So true, but as the proverb goes "to a carpenter, every problem requires a hammer". History is full of companies that doubled down on the basis of past glory and were blind to the changing market.

    So when I hear how HP is banking on the 'Ultrabook' to reverse their fortunes, it makes me shudder. It just tells me they will 'probably' never get back to being strong enough to do anything with webOS.

    And their planned forays into the mobile space look to be more of the "me-too" products that helped to put them into the position they are now struggling to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    The silverlining for HP is that they had some good growth in software this last year. Let's hope that they can leverage that growth and eventually get back on track with hardware. I don't see HP surviving as a software/service company only. There are too many better and more experienced players out there.
    It's why the 30% growth in software and services is good but not great. Some is better than none, but when you start with a dollar in your pocket, 30 cents is a big increase. But how much of that growth was bought as opposed to earned we won't know for sure until we see how they do in renewing service contracts and fending off competitors... and how deeply they discount to keep a foothold against stronger competitors.

    C
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )

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