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  1. jdlashley's Avatar
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       #1  
    The Palm ads were certainly not that good, and they never really had a central message. If Palm had come up with a marketing campaign of "Think Different" quality, how much closer would they have been to success?
  2. #2  
    not unless they had something as good as the Pre3 to go with it.
  3. #3  
    I don't think the marketing campaign was the problem. If I remember correctly, the campaign was probably appropriate for a cutting-edge gadget like the Pre, something that was never meant for the mass market. The problem was they initially locked themselves to CDMA carriers in the US and the GSM (unlocked) version was not available worldwide till around 1-1/2 years ago. They probably did not think they had fans around the world eager to move-up from PalmOS, and if they did, they didn't care. Look what Apple did, they turned a blind eye to all those jailbroken iPhones being exported out of the US when it was initially launched.

    We all know the story of their decision to geo-restrict the app catalog. That, one can never understand in these days of PayPal and eBay. And then, there is this thing about device activation: something that's right out of the dark ages. I wonder what purpose it serves? The person who came up with that idea needs to be shot.
    Game over!
  4. #4  
    I didn't even know Palm was still in business after the Palm V or so. Until about a week or so before the TouchPad's death, when I started noticing all the TouchPad and Veer ads.

    I'd say that was pretty ineffective advertising.

    All of the stores that I'm aware of have various geo-restrictions. It just seems to be a lot more prevalent amongst people here because there's so few (compared to Android and iOS) users, a much higher percentage of the devices have ended up outside of areas where they were sold legally.
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    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
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  5. cgk
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    #5  
    No - look at where the sector was going in terms of handset design - turning out the same old slider over and over was a recipe for disaster and couldn't be saved by marketing.
  6. #6  
    Yeah, I know for sure I'd have never bought one of these if I hadn't already used the system extensively and fallen in love with it on my TouchPad. Without an army of salespeople putting the Palm phones in people's hands and making them love them, there's no way 3 generations of portrait sliders with some portrait non-sliders and a baby portrait slider thrown in, were going to ever be a rocking success.

    Who the hell thought portrait sliders were a good idea?
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    snip...Who the hell thought portrait sliders were a good idea?
    1: Palm
    2: HP
    3: Many posters on Webosnation
    4: RIM

    History shows all four were wrong.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 02/05/2012 at 06:11 AM.
  8. #8  
    I really like portrait sliders. But admittedly having to slide out a keyboard to reply OK to a text is just silly. So they needed both. And obviously they knew that since they had a vk in the works but didn't finish it.

    Thanks to the homebrew guys for their efforts to enable the vk. It works great especially for just type.
  9. arnott's Avatar
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    #9  
    May be palm was too honest for its own good ?

    Source : Google, Apple and five others probed over antitrust violations - Legal - News - HEXUS.net

    It was also evident from the court filings that other firms, such as Palm, were uneasy over the no-poach requests of Apple, with the once CEO of palm responding to Steve Jobs in an email, "Your proposal that we agree that neither company will hire the other's employees, regardless of the individual's desires is not only wrong, it is likely illegal."
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by arnott View Post
    Their honesty was virtue but irrelevant next to no funds in the bank. I can see why they would want to poach people from Apple, especially after that iTunes fiasco. That was a laugh a minute.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    No - look at where the sector was going in terms of handset design - turning out the same old slider over and over was a recipe for disaster and couldn't be saved by marketing.
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    Yeah, I know for sure I'd have never bought one of these if I hadn't already used the system extensively and fallen in love with it on my TouchPad. Without an army of salespeople putting the Palm phones in people's hands and making them love them, there's no way 3 generations of portrait sliders with some portrait non-sliders and a baby portrait slider thrown in, were going to ever be a rocking success.

    Who the hell thought portrait sliders were a good idea?
    Because of the above, no, advertising was not the MAIN problem. (Though the advertising didn't help).

    Having decent quality hardware, Pre3 sized, and reliable would have given them more breathing room. No Oreos, no repeating keys, no headset switch problems, no loose battery problems, no hairline cracks from the USB port, etc.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  12. #12  
    No. Because no marketing is going to hide that you don't have enough apps that consumers want, that there's only a vertical slider form factor, that there's no slab phone, that the software is missing some features people want and that demonstrate a level of polish, that the software was not as responsive as many people wanted. Bottom line is that fancy commercials or ads wouldn't have make up for all the things consumers found lacking.

    And people seemed to love all the Pacquio and Glee and adds when they first came out. I bought my Pre before ads came out. I bought my current non webos phone before any advertising print or otherwise existed. And if the phone is good enough you don't need ads.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  13. arnott's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Their honesty was virtue but irrelevant next to no funds in the bank. I can see why they would want to poach people from Apple, especially after that iTunes fiasco. That was a laugh a minute.
    It becomes a problem, when Apple and others poach talented people from Palm.
  14. gbp
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    I don't think the marketing campaign was the problem. If I remember correctly, the campaign was probably appropriate for a cutting-edge gadget like the Pre, something that was never meant for the mass market. The problem was they initially locked themselves to CDMA carriers in the US and the GSM (unlocked) version was not available worldwide till around 1-1/2 years ago. They probably did not think they had fans around the world eager to move-up from PalmOS, and if they did, they didn't care. Look what Apple did, they turned a blind eye to all those jailbroken iPhones being exported out of the US when it was initially launched.

    We all know the story of their decision to geo-restrict the app catalog. That, one can never understand in these days of PayPal and eBay. And then, there is this thing about device activation: something that's right out of the dark ages. I wonder what purpose it serves? The person who came up with that idea needs to be shot.
    Yup the activation is a pain. Releasing a GSM version would be nice, but not enough.

    Here is what they could have done in three months after the initial Pre minus

    1.Acknowledge the issues with Pre minus and release a Pre 2 on Sprint + Verizon
    2.Release a bigger powerful Pixi , and called it something business sounding

    Next three months
    1.Release a GSM Pre2 + the bigger Pixi
    2.Release a 4 inch slab
    3.Announce Touchpad

    So by December 2009 if they did all above, they might had some chance to fight or even survive. Sticking with Sprint hoping that it will be the next iPhone is a mistake.
  15. #15  
    If I'm not mistaken, Ruby commented in an interview back in late 2009 that he wasn't looking for big sales to match that of Apple. He was targeting a niche market... and the ads reflected that view. You either got what was being said, or you didn't. There was no in-between.

    The pre and webOS was more utilitarian than a fashion accessory. What the pre could do, it did well. You had synergy and a multitasking environment. You had gestures that made sense which made the experience more intuitive to the user. The apps available were not as much as others, but you had decent games, entertainment, utilities, and social networking apps.

    More fault lies with manufacturing than marketing. The pres don't hold up as well to long term use... something that was finally corrected with the pre 2 and pre 3.

    What palm and HP needed to do to make the product more accessible would be to make them all available on all US carriers. Granted, that's no small task. It took Apple until the release of the iPhone 4S to be available on the top 3 networks (and globally). It's the idea that a customer finds the phone and features they want, then can choose the cellular service to provide the voice and data backbone. Making Android and Windows phones that are locked into one network makes the consumer to make 2 choices - the hardware (phone) and the service (cell company).

    To gain wide appeal from the customers, the hardware needs to be functionally identical no matter what service the customer has. Win the battle of the networks, and it becomes much easier to market to the people.
  16. #16  
    The thing is, it might have helped, but the build quality and responsiveness issues might have been a bit too great for even Apple to overcome.
    Also, they needed to educate people on how to use it, and how its better. A "this is the back gesture" may have helped people know what it is, or something fast and to the point. The creepy lady was... kinda decent/bad ish? "Everybody On" didn't really mean anything.


    Also on the honesty point, webOS in itself is a bit too honest. (a bad thing for the general public, i personally don't mind) iOS appears faster with splash screens and using icons for the switcher. (normally, you can't tell if its running. which it probably isn't if its a low RAM model, like the iPod touch 4) It also has a lot of work done under the hood to keep it going.


    More on topic: With a really good, widespread ad campaign, (probably would be more expensive) I believe they would have lasted a bit longer. But indefinitely, I highly doubt it. Probably with more transparency, people would know to bear with them etc...?
    m505 > Z|71 > T|C > T|T3 > LifeDrive > iPod touch 4 >
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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by arnott View Post
    It becomes a problem, when Apple and others poach talented people from Palm.
    Wasn't it Apple trying to get Palm to agree to no poaching? And if you do a google search you will see Palm had it share in poaching.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberpmg View Post
    More fault lies with manufacturing than marketing. The pres don't hold up as well to long term use... something that was finally corrected with the pre 2 and pre 3.

    What palm and HP needed to do to make the product more accessible would be to make them all available on all US carriers. Granted, that's no small task.
    I don't think long term durability was really what kept people from buying it in the first place. They could barely know if a phone breaks until it's quite a while into the use.

    They didn't sell well on the carriers they were on. And it's not like carriers where beating down their door for their phones. In some countries in europe they couldn't get a single carrier i believe. But point is i'm not sure being on every carrier matters when you can't sell the phone on the carriers you do have. The iphone was the top phone on the carriers it was on in the states before it made it to Sprint and Verizon.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 02/07/2012 at 03:20 AM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  19. jdlashley's Avatar
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       #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberpmg View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, Ruby commented in an interview back in late 2009 that he wasn't looking for big sales to match that of Apple. He was targeting a niche market... and the ads reflected that view. You either got what was being said, or you didn't. There was no in-between.
    I'll give them that, but the niche ended up being much too nichey to sustain a business.
    Cyberpmg likes this.
  20. cgk
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    #20  
    It's also just more talk - if you look at what they actually did, depending on who was speaking that 'niche' was soccer mums (which is why the Pre had a mirror on the back of the slider), people who were moving up from a feature phone, teenagers, business people who were looking for productivity etc.

    Palm's 'niche' in reality was to be a solution looking for a problem.
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