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  1. #121  
    No not really... because the people buying tablets care about apps and presentation, not specs. It's not a blind spot, it's just a fact.

    No one is wondering which tablet runs their Kindle app the fastest, they just want to make sure it *has* a Kindle app.
    I beg to differ. Prior to the TouchPad being released I got into an argument with some of my non-techie friends about specs. One of my friends insisted that he would not buy a tablet until it had the same specs as his laptop. He wanted a tablet with an Intel dual-core processor and at least 4 GB of RAM. My other friend wondered why tablets were so underpowered, since he netbook had better specs. They argued that tablets were just toys until they had the horsepower that standard PCs had. I had to explain to them that mobile devices used totally different operating systems than PCs. The OS and apps were made to run well on low powered processors to save battery power. The OS and apps were made to run on low memory (256MB to 1GB). They still balked at me. My only saving grace was that I installed Linux on both of their computers in a dual boot mode with Windows. They love Linux and gushed over how fast it was. Especially on the netbook. Linux doesn't require a lot of resources to run, which is why both Android and webOS use Linux as their core OS. So I explained to them that most mobile OSes are based on Linux and they finally got it.

    They aren't the only ones who argue over specs. We do it all the time here and if you go into BestBuy, the little pimply faced kid trying to sell you a laptop will go over specs with you in detail. Every phone review or tablet review on major tech sites get into specs also, so it is something that can't be ignored.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  2. #122  
    I agree. I think the electronics consumer market has changed due to its rapid growth. Now it's dominated by people who don't know a processor from a port. They could care less about specs as long as the product is easy to use and works to their satisfaction. Only Apple seems to have recognized that. Half the people I talk to aren't even sure what OS they're using on their PC's. They know it's Windows or Mac but they don't even know the version. I have a friend that recently bought a Droid Bionic 4G. She returned it within a month and got an iPhone 4 3G because the Droid was too complicated to use. The specs aren't even close.
    There are two different types of consumers, the ones who care about specs and everyone else. Most families have both types of consumers. In those families the ones who don't care about specs rely on the advice of the ones that do. When you have that situation, you have consumers buying products based on specs even if they don't understand them. Case in point, when the iPhone first came out, no one knew what the user experience was going to be like. Those folks that stood in line on day one for the first release of the iPhone were there because they like the specs (4 inch capacitive touchscreen, proximity sensor, accelerometer, GPS). They talked so much about the specs on it to their friends and family. Those folks didn't want to be "left out" so they bought one also. Thankfully for Apple, they are easy to use, which keeps a lot of customers. However no one would have even walked through the door if it wasn't for the specs.

    Some reviewers didn't get the specs right on the TouchPad at the beginning. There were folks who assumed that the TouchPad had slower hardware then the iPad because apps launched slower. They didn't even look at the hardware specs furnished by HP. It amazed me that as soon as the TouchPad went to fire sale, everyone was all of a sudden focused on the specs. It would be "the fastest Android tablet if coders figured out a way to put Android on it".

    Specs matter when we talk about the future of a device. Devices that have higher specs are more upgradeable in the future. User experience matters also. A good device has killer specs and a good user experience.




    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    Last edited by k4ever; 11/27/2011 at 09:45 AM.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    Apparently, sales matter a lot more than specs to the future of a device.
    Not to anyone producing tablets that aren't called iPad. Sales are dismal, yet they are still in the game.
  4. cgk
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Not to anyone producing tablets that aren't called iPad. Sales are dismal, yet they are still in the game.
    For how long? Some of those tablets sell less than 10,000 per region, I can't see some of the current players sticking around in the tablet sector for much longer unless that changes.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I beg to differ. Prior to the TouchPad being released I got into an argument with some of my non-techie friends about specs. One of my friends insisted that he would not buy a tablet until it had the same specs as his laptop. He wanted a tablet with an Intel dual-core processor and at least 4 GB of RAM. My other friend wondered why tablets were so underpowered, since he netbook had better specs. They argued that tablets were just toys until they had the horsepower that standard PCs had. I had to explain to them that mobile devices used totally different operating systems than PCs. The OS and apps were made to run well on low powered processors to save battery power. The OS and apps were made to run on low memory (256MB to 1GB). They still balked at me. My only saving grace was that I installed Linux on both of their computers in a dual boot mode with Windows. They love Linux and gushed over how fast it was. Especially on the netbook. Linux doesn't require a lot of resources to run, which is why both Android and webOS use Linux as their core OS. So I explained to them that most mobile OSes are based on Linux and they finally got it.

    They aren't the only ones who argue over specs. We do it all the time here and if you go into BestBuy, the little pimply faced kid trying to sell you a laptop will go over specs with you in detail. Every phone review or tablet review on major tech sites get into specs also, so it is something that can't be ignored.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    The above post does not provide a good example of non techie. How do you get into tech argument with a non techie?

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    and if you go into BestBuy, the little pimply faced kid trying to sell you a laptop will go over specs with you in detail.
    It's really strange that any person that goes to a forum to discuss there favorite product, be it webos or some other item, would actually walk into a Best Buy and interact enough with a salesperson to actually get a sales pitch.
    When you walk into a B&M, you should already know what you are going to buy, because you did your homework in advance.
    If you must interact with a salesperson, these are a couple of the only things you need to say:
    Where is this product?
    Do you have anymore of this in stock?
    Where do you pay for this?

    Anymore than that and you deserve what you get.

    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    Apparently, sales matter a lot more than specs to the future of a device.
    I second that.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 11/27/2011 at 10:13 AM.
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    #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Every phone review or tablet review on major tech sites get into specs also, so it is something that can't be ignored.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    Well, we could say that one can ignore the marketing of specs and still land 97% of the tablet market. Determine the user experience, develop the software, and spec BALANCED hardware. In other words, if you can double processor speed by halving battery life, be smart enough NOT to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Not to anyone producing tablets that aren't called iPad. Sales are dismal, yet they are still in the game.
    I guess it comes down the definition of "still in the game". Losing money hand over fist for a fraction of 1% of the market is "still in the game"?
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    For how long? Some of those tablets sell less than 10,000 per region, I can't see some of the current players sticking around in the tablet sector for much longer unless that changes.
    At this point I don't know. Everyone is having problems breaking into this market behind Apple without losing money. HP was the first to take a dive. RIM is diving now. Samsung, Motorola, Acer, and others just aren't selling well at all (behind HP). Amazon came into the market with a device that is sold at a loss. The situation is bleak for everyone but Apple.

    However, tablets are starting to undercut laptop sales, so the tablet market is too important to be a one horse show. If HP and others don't get a foot into this market now, they are going to watch as their core businesses are slowly devoured by Apple.
    bluenote likes this.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmless View Post
    Well, we could say that one can ignore the marketing of specs and still land 97% of the tablet market. Determine the user experience, develop the software, and spec BALANCED hardware. In other words, if you can double processor speed by halving battery life, be smart enough NOT to do it.



    I guess it comes down the definition of "still in the game". Losing money hand over fist for a fraction of 1% of the market is "still in the game"?
    You use ever weapon in your arsenal. You highlight the things that make your device special. You make people want your device. You dazzle them with so much B.S. that by the time their head stops spinning, they are firmly in your camp and singing your praises. Apple did this. Their web browser was flawed because it lacks the plugins that have made the web enjoyable for over 20 years. They got around that by making web sites apps, placing all their apps in a centralized location, then launching a campaign saying "there is an app for that". This was at a time when their competitors (BlackBerry, PalmOS, and Windows Mobile) had over 1000x more apps than them. The campaign made folks think that Apple had more apps when they didn't. It gave their fledgling app store momentum. All from tricking the public away from their shortcomings. They also made up an excuses for their lack of true multi-tasking and functionality by saying that "it saved battery life" and people bought it. Not only that but every time they add something to their devices that others have had for years, they hit us with an add campaign that makes everyone believe that their devices are the only ones that have it. If questioned about it, instead of admitting that Apple did not do it first, the faithful counter with Apple does it better. Bottom line: it is HP's job to advertise the strengths of their devices and turn their weaknesses into strengths. Having a clear advantage over their competitor in the spec department and not exploiting it was foolish. It would be like Chevy not exploiting that the engine in one of their muscle cars has 25 more horse power and 35 more feet of torque than Ford's comparable muscle car. Does this matter to driveability? Not really, but it is something that people identify with.

    Read my comment to CGK about that 1% of the market.
    Last edited by k4ever; 11/28/2011 at 09:39 AM.
  9. palmless's Avatar
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    You use ever weapon in your arsenal. You highlight the things that make your device special. You make people want your device. You dazzle them with so much B.S. that by the time their head stops spinning, they are firmly in your camp and singing your praises. Apple did this. Their web browser was flawed because it lacks the plugins that have made the web enjoyable for over 20 years. They got around that by making web sites apps, placing all their apps in a centralized location, then launching a campaign saying "there is an app for that". This was at a time when their competitors (BlackBerry, PalmOS, and Windows Mobile) had over 1000x more apps than them. The campaign made folks think that Apple had more apps when they didn't. It gave their fledgling app store momentum. All from tricking the public away from their shortcomings. They also made up an excuses for their lack of true multi-tasking and functionality by saying that "it saved battery life" and people bought it. Not only that but every time they add something to their devices that others have had for years, they hit us with an add campaign that makes everyone believe that their devices are the only ones that have it. If questioned about it, instead of admitting that Apple did not do it first, the faithful counter with Apple does it better. Bottom line: it is HP's job to advertise the strengths of their devices and turn their weaknesses into strengths. Having a clear advantage over their competitor in the spec department and not exploiting it was foolish. It would be like Chevy not exploiting that the engine in one of their muscle cars has 25 more horse power and 35 more feet of torque than Ford's comparable muscle car. Does this matter to driveability? Not really, but it is something that people identify with.

    Read my comment to CGK about that 1% of the market.
    Ah. Be Apple. Why hasn't someone already thought of this?
  10. #130  
    Ah. Be Apple. Why hasn't someone already thought of this?
    That is not a good question. The question should be why has no one executed this well?


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    That is not a good question. The question should be why has no one executed this well?


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    Indeed, how hard can it be? They make it look so easy... hmmm... could be that it is several orders of magnitude more difficult than just cranking up the specs?
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmless View Post
    Indeed, how hard can it be? They make it look so easy... hmmm... could be that it is several orders of magnitude more difficult than just cranking up the specs?
    We have talked in detail about more things then just specs, in this thread and others. I listed my thoughts on strategy a few pages back if you want to read them.
    Last edited by k4ever; 11/28/2011 at 02:34 PM.
  13.    #133  
    ??
    According to zdnet blogger at HP Discover, HP apparently to integrate Autonomy's advanced search, analysis, augmented reality into the consumer devices. At HP Discover is touting new "stunning" technology for printers, don't know what this means yet. Wonder if webOS is involved.

    Autonomy plots HP-spanning tech | ZDNet UK
  14. cgk
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    #134  
    I don't think WebOS is mentioned anywhere at Discover?
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    #135  
    Of course webOS seemed like an after thought at the Discover event in June. Was not a good sign IMHO. Their Discover daily publication had way more information about Apple in it than it did about their own webOS material. Utterly absurd. I sent a remark on twitter about it and was told that document was created using some sort of algorithm and it was not manually edited, at least in selecting topics/articles. If I was spending a billion dollars or so on a new product launch and this is what marketing was doing I would have wanted resignations for incompetence immediately.
  16. #136  
    CES 2012: HP to announce new windows 8 tablet. HPīs tablet strategy would be announced briefly. webOS ?

    Updating the news :

    Despite burying the TouchPad, the company is planning on new tablet devices as soon as the new year.
    HP’s managing director in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA) has told Cloud Pro there will be more tablet devices coming from the company, with the first just a few months away.

    Yves De Talhouet, who used to run HP’s French division, was coy about whether WebOS would be involved, but did reveal a Microsoft tablet running Windows 8 would be launched at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) to be held in Las Vegas in January.

    HP launched its first tablet device - the HP TouchPad - earlier this year but soon ditched it after disappointing sales and a market still dominated by Apple.

    De Talhouet admitted mistakes had been made with the device, telling Cloud Pro: “We certainly have made an attempt to answer the [desire for] tablets,” he said.

    “We thought we had a good asset with WebOS and thought we could combine WebOS with a good hardware, [but] we retreated from that because of the economic conditions to enter that market.”

    Although he was reluctant to give any more details, De Talhouet said HP’s tablet strategy was “being worked on and would be announced briefly.”

    The MD also admitted HP had not dealt with the announcements around the Personal Systems Group (PSG) - and the possible spin off - well.

    “We probably didn’t handle that announcement in the best possible way, but it is also natural at board level [to] look at our activities and make sure everyone adds value,” added De Talhouet.

    “There was a choice point. We had just acquired Autonomy [so asked] do we need to push the whole portfolio or constrain it. The answer [to constraining it] was no.”

    Source: HP Windows 8 tablet to launch at CES | Cloud Pro

    IMO a webos decision might come after the HP Discovery 2011 Vienna event which ends DEC 1st

    https://h30406.www3.hp.com/campaigns...enna/index.php

    There are some news around the web about Meg keynote at the event but she didnīt say anything about webOS at all.

    http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/it-strat...over-40094536/
    Last edited by akitayo; 11/29/2011 at 06:51 PM.
  17. #137  
    Doesn't look good for WebOS is what I am getting.

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by etphoto View Post
    Doesn't look good for WebOS is what I am getting.

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    Yeah at this time when WebOS app development chief flees to Xobni nothing amazing is coming .

    Post: http://forums.precentral.net/hp-webo...ml#post3254122
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by akitayo View Post
    Yeah at this time when WebOS app development chief flees to Xobni nothing amazing is coming .

    Post: http://forums.precentral.net/hp-webo...ml#post3254122
    Just clean up the os and fix the remaining issues.. that guy wasn't working on any code, he won't hinder getting a few last minute updates to tie us over. We want as much as possible before there is nothing left.. maybe a few team members will even continue some work (if allowed) after HP leaves the webos community hanging.

    To be honest if HP tries to close up shop and shut down the servers, they should have to at the very least release a true stable ICS version, maybe even an upgrade path to win8. Obviously the win8 route would cost a few bucks to the end user, but I think many would take that option as well. The ICS option should be a free update to anyone who wants it.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by stumblinh View Post
    Just clean up the os and fix the remaining issues.. that guy wasn't working on any code, he won't hinder getting a few last minute updates to tie us over.
    He was also the development lead, as seen right here in his LinkedIn profile, so I wouldn't be so quick to be so sure of yourself that he wasn't involved at all in coding.

    Development leads, even if they don't code--and I do, as a dev lead where I work--are pretty vital to steering the development wheel by developing and enforcing coding best practices and unifying different groups to ensure a quality, well-tested product goes out.

    I'm more curious to know if they transitioned someone into the webOS 2.x role or if they're just going to let it go in favor of 3.x from now on--a very real possibility. There's been no whisper of a phone update to 2.x since the last release went out. None at all.
    Last edited by independent1; 11/29/2011 at 10:41 PM.
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