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  1. gbp
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    #241  
    Quote Originally Posted by cheburashka View Post
    I would disagree. Combined with uberkernel oc at 1ghz and a few other tweaks my sprint Pre is very fast, and very stable too. However I believe what palm/hp could have done is work with the devs of those patches and tweaks and such to include them naitively in webos. 90% of work was already done for them by the devs. why was that so hard to do!? I just don't understand it. Those patches gave so much functionality to webos, exactly what many didn't like about it, that it felt half baked.
    Agree, I was "" close to abandoning my Sprint Pre-. The 1 GHz helped me stay put. However webOS needs to catch up with Android and iOS on the responsiveness. Period.

    According to the recent CNN survey about 99.999999% folks have no time to fiddle with the patches and tweaks
  2. gbp
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    #242  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    Patches and OC kernels can't make webOS smooth or fast. It could run faster and smoother than out-of-the box, but compared to other OS's it is slowest even after patching.
    I can still see posts how new webOS devices also have to be restarted to obtains stability! I havent restarted my Ipad2 in months. I haven't restarted my Android phone in weeks.
    The fact that we need to patch or tweak tells that webOS is not perfect. Its 90% done, which means it will remain 10% behind iOS and Android forever.
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  3. #243  
    The fact that we need to patch or tweak tells that webOS is not perfect. Its 90% done, which means it will remain 10% behind iOS and Android forever.
    And what about Android custom roms?
    Newness Developments apps:

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  4. #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    The fact that we need to patch or tweak tells that webOS is not perfect. Its 90% done, which means it will remain 10% behind iOS and Android forever.
    Your comment indicates that both Android and iOS are done ... However, they are far from being done or perfect. I do admit webOS is far behind them. However, to push webOS, HP needs to start strategy to build up user-base.

    I guess shelling out money to get important developer to port famous applications is what they need. I bet you if they set a pool every month and found what the user are looking for and they got that application ported, we would have some different discussions by now.

    Many people I know abounded or didn't consider the platform because of tens of famous applications which are considered vital for them ...
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    #245  
    I can't see how the ability to patch with webOS is indicative of anything. Palm/HP are allowing their users to tweek their devices as they see fit. Some of these things are improvements some are additional features. You don't have to do it but I enjoy being ablt to do it. People jail break their iOS devices and I don't think people would legitimately argue that they do so because of a failure from Apple.
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  6. #246  
    Aaaahhh... c'moooonnn...

    WHO talk about OC and Patches are the same that use Jailbreak and Customs Roms...

    "-Everybody show his medals gained in war, but nobody show his 'back' full of bullet's holes!"


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
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  7. gbp
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    #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    And what about Android custom roms?
    Lets talk something different. What percentage of the total android user base change their phone with a custom ROM ? I hope we get an answer from someone, Google, xda....

    My hunch is that very few enthusiasts do the custom ROMS and tweaks. May be few hundred thousand. That's drop in a bucket in the total Android userbase.
  8. cgk
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    #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Lets talk something different. What percentage of the total android user base change their phone with a custom ROM ? I hope we get an answer from someone, Google, xda....

    My hunch is that very few enthusiasts do the custom ROMS and tweaks. May be few hundred thousand. That's drop in a bucket in the total Android userbase.
    I could be wrong but I think that everything I've seen say that it's pretty consistent across user populations @ 5-10% or so (the hobbyist/geek type) - that might be higher for WebOS because in many countries, you had to make a special effort to get hold of the hardware. For something like WP7, I don't think we have accurate information.

    One stat I did see was that @12,000 TP users had opted into to provide CM7 feedback - so that gives you an idea of what sort of numbers are hacking android onto the TP (of course what percentage that is will depend largely on what sales numbers are accurate).
  9. gbp
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    #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by CvvB View Post
    Your comment indicates that both Android and iOS are done ... However, they are far from being done or perfect. I do admit webOS is far behind them. However, to push webOS, HP needs to start strategy to build up user-base.

    I guess shelling out money to get important developer to port famous applications is what they need. I bet you if they set a pool every month and found what the user are looking for and they got that application ported, we would have some different discussions by now.

    Many people I know abounded or didn't consider the platform because of tens of famous applications which are considered vital for them ...
    This is a chicken and egg scenario.
    FWIW, here is my strong belief. Its the device first, Apps will come later. Case in point, iPhone/Android and even the iPad never had all the apps ready at lauch. The device should sell first. Which means it has to be perfect i.e. both hardware and software.

    As another example I use Touchpad, which is a DOA. But look at the app store. I am one of the original Palm Pre-, I can tell you Touchpad attracted more developers than the Palm Pre. Why ? because the thing sold well ( firesale it may be).

    It gets on my nerve when anyone from NYT to Engadget says , "well they don't have many apps". Whoever say apps are missing should be sent to heaven. Steve Jobs will tell them a thing or two about "device first, apps will follow" strategy.
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  10. gbp
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    #250  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I could be wrong but I think that everything I've seen say that it's pretty consistent across user populations @ 5-10% or so (the hobbyist/geek type) - that might be higher for WebOS because in many countries, you had to make a special effort to get hold of the hardware. For something like WP7, I don't think we have accurate information.

    One stat I did see was that @12,000 TP users had opted into to provide CM7 feedback - so that gives you an idea of what sort of numbers are hacking android onto the TP (of course what percentage that is will depend largely on what sales numbers are accurate).
    I refuse to believe its 5-10% for iOS and Android. That's few million consumers who have nothing better to do than hack their devices.

    I believe you on the CM7 for Touchpad. But that is still 1% ( assuming that 1 million TPs got sold).

    HP should focus on 99% not the 1%
  11. gbp
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    #251  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    It's the customer who decides what device they are going to buy. If one of the main reasons they are buying a smartphone is to use apps like Words With Friends, Epocrates, Netflix or whatever, then app availability is going to figure into their decision.

    Perhaps a device manufacturer could offer an explanation that they are putting out the device first and worrying about the apps later but I don't think that will do much to persuade the consumer these days.
    Perhaps you need a lesson from the master Steve J ,

    Though the consumers are smarter these days, the device comes first. Folks look at Nokia Lumia first before jumping to see the windows App store. Developers can be given incentives once the device gets sold well. Follow closely what Microsoft is doing now you will understand. The original windows phones were duds.Nokia went back to the drawing board and came up with the Lumia.Many folks who otherwise stick around with Andorid/iOs are now tempted to try new.
  12. #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    This is a chicken and egg scenario.
    FWIW, here is my strong belief. Its the device first, Apps will come later. Case in point, iPhone/Android and even the iPad never had all the apps ready at lauch. The device should sell first. Which means it has to be perfect i.e. both hardware and software.

    As another example I use Touchpad, which is a DOA. But look at the app store. I am one of the original Palm Pre-, I can tell you Touchpad attracted more developers than the Palm Pre. Why ? because the thing sold well ( firesale it may be).

    It gets on my nerve when anyone from NYT to Engadget says , "well they don't have many apps". Whoever say apps are missing should be sent to heaven. Steve Jobs will tell them a thing or two about "device first, apps will follow" strategy.
    I am not talking about the amount of applications. I am talking about certain applications that form the modern necessity in mobile industry. We are no longer in an era where a mobile device can survive with how well it was advertised or how well it was built only. We are in an era where you need some services to be in your product as people need it. Therefore, you can view these aspects as part of the mobile device "functionality". People tend to ask when they buy about certain services "I won't call them applications anymore" as Skype, Flash, WhatsApp, Microsoft Office Editor ... etc.

    I might be wrong with what services I am trying to get into the picture. But nevertheless, these services has to be in the mobile device "as application" so people can even consider purchasing that device.
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    #253  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    I refuse to believe its 5-10% for iOS and Android. That's few million consumers who have nothing better to do than hack their devices.

    I believe you on the CM7 for Touchpad. But that is still 1% ( assuming that 1 million TPs got sold).

    HP should focus on 99% not the 1%
    You're probably right but I think that percentage is the same amount that followed the "Get Started" guide for WebOS. Look at how many views there have been on that thread. That's not a 140,000 different people looking at it but how many times it's been viewed. I've probably viewed it over a dozen times myself for me and others. Think of the 95% or more of Touchpad owners who only know how well their tablet runs out of the box.

    My Mytouch 4G was/is faster with the stock Sense ROM than the tweeked WebOS, let alone stock. CM7 is much faster on my phone than stock but I can see why few people follow the steps on how to root....it's a pain. WebOS is great but for the average person that doesn't do tweeks then Android is a much more polished/faster OS. If were comparing tweeked WebOS vs CM7 on Android first devices then it's very clear which one is faster.

    On the apps side, if you think the apps are more than adequate on the WebOS side then you're missing out. It's like saying the software you bought 10 years ago works just fine and you don't need anything more. That might be the case but there is so much better out there.
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  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    This is a chicken and egg scenario.
    FWIW, here is my strong belief. Its the device first, Apps will come later.
    I agree absolutely. And for me, über device is union of great hardware and great software. IMO, webOS failed to deliver such device not only because poor hardware decisions but also because neglecting some important software aspects.
    I really hope webOS will not be killed, but if HP plans to keep it, throwing just another billion or two on it without vision, idea, and strategy it will be same as killing it right now.
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  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Perhaps you need a lesson from the master Steve J ,

    Though the consumers are smarter these days, the device comes first. Folks look at Nokia Lumia first before jumping to see the windows App store. Developers can be given incentives once the device gets sold well. Follow closely what Microsoft is doing now you will understand. The original windows phones were duds.Nokia went back to the drawing board and came up with the Lumia.Many folks who otherwise stick around with Andorid/iOs are now tempted to try new.
    But I think people buy into platforms with a certain expectation of being able to do the things that are important to them. WP7, with its tens of thousands of apps, is at the point where the things you want to do are most likely possible -- and customers know that. Microsoft makes sure of that by constantly broadcasting the milestones they hit.

    In contrast, RIM and HP couldn't sell their tablets at full price because of the perception that there's just not much third party support for them.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  16. #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    Patches and OC kernels can't make webOS smooth or fast. It could run faster and smoother than out-of-the box, but compared to other OS's it is slowest even after patching.
    I can still see posts how new webOS devices also have to be restarted to obtains stability! I havent restarted my Ipad2 in months. I haven't restarted my Android phone in weeks.
    I haven't had to reboot my Droid 2 in months... because it reboots itself regularly. When I go to my recently used programs and they are all gone, I know that is has rebooted. And that phone is newer than my Pre plus. And it's my second Droid, because I needed one that would get the OS update to make it more compatible with Exchange ActiveSync, so I gave away the first one.

    I'm not a webOS apologist, I well know it has faults, but to say that other OS's do not is pretty inaccurate.

    I also have a Blackberry and I always hear how great the battery life is. But that is only because the device is so feature poor, I don't use it nearly as much as either of my other smartphones. When I do, it doesn't last very long at all.

    At the end of the day, it is what you value (or need) most that determines what you are willing to tolerate in any OS.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
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  17. #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by kalel33 View Post
    You're probably right but I think that percentage is the same amount that followed the "Get Started" guide for WebOS. Look at how many views there have been on that thread. That's not a 140,000 different people looking at it but how many times it's been viewed. I've probably viewed it over a dozen times myself for me and others. Think of the 95% or more of Touchpad owners who only know how well their tablet runs out of the box.

    My Mytouch 4G was/is faster with the stock Sense ROM than the tweeked WebOS, let alone stock. CM7 is much faster on my phone than stock but I can see why few people follow the steps on how to root....it's a pain. WebOS is great but for the average person that doesn't do tweeks then Android is a much more polished/faster OS. If were comparing tweeked WebOS vs CM7 on Android first devices then it's very clear which one is faster.

    On the apps side, if you think the apps are more than adequate on the WebOS side then you're missing out. It's like saying the software you bought 10 years ago works just fine and you don't need anything more. That might be the case but there is so much better out there.

    DIsagree to one point -- webOS 3.0.4 on a otherwise completely stock TouchPad at 1.2Ghz -smokes- Cm7 alpha 3 on the same TouchPad, in "seat of the pants" measurement, since we obviously have no real benchmark to test between them.
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  18. #258  
    Quote Originally Posted by CvvB View Post
    The market decides what is the best Ecosystem not the best OS.
    The iphone and did not start with an ecosystem other than itunes. Android started with no real ecosystem. But you're entitled to your opinion.
    Vistaus and gbp like this.
  19. #259  
    ***any news yet???***

    I'm bored ...or maybe just tired. Vegetating. Just had organic final (yet another allnighter).

    I need some good news and I'm looking at you, HP
  20. #260  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    One thing I will never understand is an idea that has permiated this forum for years - that if one is late to the market then the bar is somehow lower for your product meaning that you only have to exceed what other companies did when they were starting out. In the case of Palm/webOS, every successive reboot means that the market is simply looking for them to produce a solid first year device. Insane.
    Yeah. It's the same thinking that leads to stuff like "it's a marathon, not a sprint," which, if you think about it for a few seconds, is just so profoundly untrue.
    sinsin07 likes this.

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