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  1. gbp
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by loopytee View Post
    maybe it will be an exclusive (temporarily) licensing deal with HP for use of webOS. This would allow amazon to not have to buy the platform and would give HP webOS a a major push back into the market. If amazon with all the size, clout and advertising is investing in webOS as a platform then I would think other manufacturers might be less skidish about taking the risk and licensing webOS.

    oh and ruby is on the board at amazon, he could be coming back to HP and taking his platform back!
    I believe that. Specially with a larger phone Amazon could enter the market in few months with webOS.

    The other big reason is being protected by the patents. Amazon does not want to pay the Microsoft Toll.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    yup, the Fire is missing many features.
    The Fire has a crappy email client ( from what I have seen on videos). It is also missing bluetooth feature.
    You can add features using apps. Also, you don't have to use the default email client, get another one from the Amazon App Store. Yesterday, Amazon Free-App-Of-The-Day was Enchanced Mail.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    yup, the Fire is missing many features.
    The Fire has a crappy email client ( from what I have seen on videos). It is also missing bluetooth feature.
    You can add features using apps. Also, you don't have to use the default email client, get another one from the Amazon App Store. Yesterday, Amazon Free-App-Of-The-Day was Enchanced Mail.
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Right, the Amazon Appstore is really more of a loss-leader type of thing to get people buying the higher margin stuff. And it's not a bad strategy - when you buy a Kindle Fire, you're guaranteed popular titles like, say, Plants vs Zombies or Netflix; stuff that isn't available on webOS. Stuff that people care about.

    But back to the point... when Amazon is making money selling services on their forked version of Android, why would they need webOS?
    They don't need anything, but they may want something as an alternative. In 5 years or less, Google may look a lot more like Amazon then most people realize. Their ability to monopolize the market will make Microsoft's troubles look like a pre-school squabble. And should scare the pants off of Amazon

    They pretty much own: mail, search, voip (with google voice) the dominant mobile platform in Android (or will shortly ... sorry Apple fans), now pushing into hardware, music services, office productivity, social media....

    Do you think the Amazon folks can't see the writing on the wall. What if (in a few years) Google decides it is in their best interest (after achieving 75% market share, perhaps) to change their distribution arrangement for apps, or even their outlets for hardware. Even if just as a bargaining chip, having something up the sleeve will be valuable.

    For the typical media consumption user there are only a handful of apps needed: a video player, music player, an e-reader, e-mail, a clock, a calendar. For gravy thrown in a doc editor, and a cloud storage platform, and you've pleased close to 90 percent of the market. Remember, the biggest selling class of tablets are actually the sub-tablets (Kindle variants and Nooks). If they can read, and check e-mail, they are happy (my wife is one of those with her Nook color)

    Apps are important, but if you can sell a few million units, the developers will follow because the want to make money. Most end users care less about what the OS of a device is than what it will do. All Mobile OS makers typically sell the devices capabilities because you have to come to them for the hardware. The only reason Android is marketed as a platform is because Google has no choice since they don't have a complete package to market (hardware AND software).

    ... oh wait, they soon will (insert evil laugh here).
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  5. #45  
    This might be moot anyway. Forbes is reporting:

    Channel checks suggest the Amazon smartphone will have a 4-inch touch panel display, an 8 mega pixel camera, and adopt a Microsoft operating system. The phone will probably run on a Texas Instruments OMAP4 processor and Qualcomm’s dual mode 6-series standalone baseband.
    Which is just as silly as ditching Android for webOS so, hey, there's hope!
  6. #46  
    Seeing those dev TouchPad units running Android on them now make sense doesn't it? I think the Cynaogen Mod team got to the party before intended though...

    Oh and this link adds some interest to the "Fire" so to speak: http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touc...ad-no-2-a.html
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    This might be moot anyway. Forbes is reporting:

    Channel checks suggest the Amazon smartphone will have a 4-inch touch panel display, an 8 mega pixel camera, and adopt a Microsoft operating system. The phone will probably run on a Texas Instruments OMAP4 processor and Qualcomm’s dual mode 6-series standalone baseband.

    Which is just as silly as ditching Android for webOS so, hey, there's hope!
    Wow! One has to wonder what they are getting in return.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    But it doesn't matter. What Amazon is selling are portals to their stores so you can buy their content. One of the Kindle Fire's selling points is being able to access Amazon's curated apps. Switching to webOS on phones means they give up the Amazon AppStore that they've built over the past year and they'll have to hope their customers don't notice how barren the webOS App Catalog is. It also means they'd completely sever all compatibility with Kindle Fire, at best, or have to maintain two app stores at worst.

    Who would want to do that?
    Why would Amazon do that? That makes no sense at all. Amazon would clearly write their own code to allow access to their own market. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out.
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  9. #49  
    Forbes is just speculating like us:

    Mahaney doesn’t specifically say, but I would presume that he’s imagining an Android phone; though I suppose it is not out of the question that the company could adopt Windows Phone 8; a longer shot would be to buy WebOS from Hewlett-Packard.

    Link: Amazon: Next, A Smart Phone? - Forbes
  10. cgk
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    Why would Amazon do that? That makes no sense at all. Amazon would clearly write their own code to allow access to their own market. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out.
    But why start a new product line on one platform and then change for the second generation? Organisations change when a) forced to, b) because of declining sales or c) because the alternative provides something better.

    None of those are true for the product line that the Amazon fire is the first of - moreover, unless WebOS is skinned so it looks like an evolution of the GUI that is currently available, then you have problems with the current user base.

    This all seems part of the increasingly odd mind-set we get here - Amazon using android as the base for their new tablet and setting up an android store and developing their own custom android apps is somehow taken as evidence that they are about to swop to WebOS. Forgetting all the rumours and guesswork, on the basis of what amazon is actually doing, it's far more parsimonious to assume that they will continue using android based devices (which doesn't preclude them buying WebOS for patent reasons).


    Here's a question for someone more in the know (because they are an american only company I know very little about) than me - why in all of those conversations we are having about Amazon are we not talking about Barnes & Noble? Doesn't everything that people have claimed about Amazon's need for WebOS apply to them?
    Last edited by CGK; 11/19/2011 at 06:09 AM.
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  11. #51  
    it's entirely possible to merge the android and the webos to create a superior operating system designed to work well with both ecosystems.

    what makes you think that time and effort can not be exchanged for success?
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  12. cgk
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    it's entirely possible to merge the android and the webos to create a superior operating system designed to work well with both ecosystems.

    what makes you think that time and effort can not be exchanged for success?
    But amazon already have a success using the android platform, that's what is myopic about the commentary here - it's based on a wonky premise that the fire has failed or is failing and needs webOS to swoop in and save the day - WebOS internals estimates that across every device and in that in the three years since it was first released, four million WebOS profiles have been set-up (most of which will be now be inactive), Amazon fire is estimated to hit five million units within two months. As for the WebOS ecosystem, it doesn't exist beyond a app market largely populated by small-time developers, it provides no advantage to content giant Amazon.

    Why does spending $500 million or more on buying WebOS make more sense than spending that money on their fork that is already more successful than webos has ever been?
  13. #53  
    Any move Amazon makes towards buying WebOS in my opinion would be to strengthen their IP position so that they have bargaining chips if someone tries to sue them for infringement in the future... or who knows what suits are pending against them now. Large corporations like to stay out of court: Strong IP portfolios help them do that because they can cross-license to other companies. [Of course, Patent trolls are another story: they just come after the money.]

    ~~~
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  14. cgk
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by All4fun View Post
    Any move Amazon makes towards buying WebOS in my opinion would be to strengthen their IP position so that they have bargaining chips if someone tries to sue them for infringement in the future... or who knows what suits are pending against them now. Large corporations like to stay out of court: Strong IP portfolios help them do that because they can cross-license to other companies. [Of course, Patent trolls are another story: they just come after the money.]

    ~~~
    That's how I see it - what's interesting is the current Barnes and Noble vs. Microsoft court-case, it seems we will finally see what those patents are that microsoft claims that android infringes.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But amazon already have a success using the android platform, that's what is myopic about the commentary here - it's based on a wonky premise that the fire has failed or is failing and needs webOS to swoop in and save the day - WebOS internals estimates that across every device and in that in the three years since it was first released, four million WebOS profiles have been set-up (most of which will be now be inactive), Amazon fire is estimated to hit five million units within two months. As for the WebOS ecosystem, it doesn't exist beyond a app market largely populated by small-time developers, it provides no advantage to content giant Amazon.

    Why does spending $500 million or more on buying WebOS make more sense than spending that money on their fork that is already more successful than webos has ever been?
    They also have a very low price point, and infinite resources. WebOS still has NOT had the "infinite resources" "game plan" that Amazon has. Look, I'm not saying Amazon will buy webOS and immediately forget what they've already done, so don't put words in my mouth that others have said. If they were to buy it (which I believe they want to), they would most likely converge with their existing ecosystem. Go ahead and keep making snarky remarks "it provides no advantage to giant Amazon..." it doesn't make your argument stronger (which, it was never strong to begin with). WebOS is beneficial in multitudes of ways, most of which need not be said.

    Just because they are successful right now does not mean they are close minded like you.
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  16. #56  
    Plus webOS is just better than Android and Amazon would make more money if they SHOWED how it is better, unlike HP has done.
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  17. cgk
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    Go ahead and keep making snarky remarks "it provides no advantage to giant Amazon..."
    em.. I never said that, go back and read it again, I said 'content giant amazon' - which was a specific point about the benefit of amazon buying an ecosystem that doesn't actually have anything in it (beyond a small app market).

    Just because they are successful right now does not mean they are close minded like you.
    It's a bit early in the conversation to run out of ammo and have to resort to ad hominem attacks, but I'll forgive you. Let's stick to discuss the matter at hand in a rational fashion, no?

    it doesn't make your argument stronger (which, it was never strong to begin with).
    Well unless amazon buy and start using webos, it seems pretty strong to me as it reflect the actual reality we exist in.

    Anyway, I'm off to the pub, so I bid you good day, sir.
    Last edited by CGK; 11/19/2011 at 01:24 PM.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Anyway, I'm off to the pub, so I bid you good day, sir.
    A bit too early for us on the west side of the pond...

    Thanks for the support on my prior post. I work for a big company and have seen how the IP game works. Lots of quid pro quo to keep the litigation out of court.

    ~~~
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    #59  
    I did get a Kindle Fire and it has not impressed me... yet. The interface is very 'one app at a time-ish' like the iPad/Pod/Phone products. It would become a very different device with cards, taskbar and notifications.

    I feel locked into the Amazon world - which was what they were trying to do - they succeeded.

    But I like our world much much more!
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  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by SmartKidsOnTheRun View Post
    I did get a Kindle Fire and it has not impressed me... yet. The interface is very 'one app at a time-ish' like the iPad/Pod/Phone products. It would become a very different device with cards, taskbar and notifications.

    I feel locked into the Amazon world - which was what they were trying to do - they succeeded.

    But I like our world much much more!
    Exactly.

    Kindle has always been about focus... do a few things really well. So they are not coming from a multi-tasking mindset. As they move to devices that look like full-blown tablets like the Fire, they may have to rethink that mindset.

    And I think most all the OS providers want to lock you into their own ecosystem... Therein lies the annuity stream after the hardware sale.

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