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  1. cgk
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post


    You mistake a new version of Android with a totally different OS.
    To support new generations of apps they only need to support the APIs that new apps require - and the original Android is still open source. Amazon can merge the necessary changes back in.
    Right - unless Google changes the model, then cannot stop Amazon simply grabbing what they need for updates. ICS is now available, nothing to stop Amazon running the next version of the fire on that with their custom interface over the top.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Right - unless Google changes the model, then cannot stop Amazon simply grabbing what they need for updates. ICS is now available, nothing to stop Amazon running the next version of the fire on that with their custom interface over the top.
    When it was reported that the Kindle Fire was based on Gingerbread, I was not worried. I knew that within a couple of months Amazon could and more then likely release and OS upgrade based on ICS. Also Amazon could enable Android APIs that are currently disabled. I've have read reports that ICS has included APIs that aloud for better intergation of customized UI which will lead to quicker updates of current Android devices when Google updates the OS.

    Most users will not notice the behind-the-scene changes. All they will notice are the increased number of apps in the Amazon App Store; and better quality of the apps.
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  3. cgk
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
    When it was reported that the Kindle Fire was based on Gingerbread, I was not worried. I knew that within a couple of months Amazon could and more then likely release and OS upgrade based on ICS. Also Amazon could enable Android APIs that are currently disabled. I've have read reports that ICS has included APIs that aloud for better intergation of customized UI which will lead to quicker updates of current Android devices when Google updates the OS.

    Most users will not notice the behind-the-scene changes. All they will notice are the increased number of apps in the Amazon App Store; and better quality of the apps.
    Right - which leads us in a circle - what do they need WebOS for? If they want a full-functional tablet OS, they have it in ICS, available now and for no cost.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    They want to make it easier for the developers to port the apps they want to see for their consumption devive which is why certain categories of apps are prohibited.

    Sent from my touchdroid using Tapatalk
    I doubt it.

    It is far more likely that certain categories of apps are prohibitted because Amazon didn't want Google in the equation so Google took their mobile components out.

    Also, if they bought a closed source OS they don't have to publish their source code.

    This Kindle Fire thing will be completely different than Andorid within a year or two, and they will have totally different developers so why should they continue with an aging Android base that requires them to post their source code and make it simple for people to totally circumvent all of the effort that they put into axing Google from their ecosystem in the first place?
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
    When it was reported that the Kindle Fire was based on Gingerbread, I was not worried. I knew that within a couple of months Amazon could and more then likely release and OS upgrade based on ICS.
    If Amazon wanted to update, why would they have started with 2.3 and not 3.0? I think it's a stretch to assume they will want to update to 4.0.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Apple *is* in the music business. They make money from selling music.
    Amazon is not trying to make money from tablets. To Amazon tablets are *not* the product - just a means to an end.
    If you go to a bricks and mortar shop - the shop is not the product. The shop is the place where you buy the product. To Amazon the tablets are shops.

    Obviously. I didn't say that Amazon is not trying to make their tablets successful. Starbucks makes nice looking cozy cafes - to sell you coffee.

    You are correct that Amazon is investing in the app market - it's just not supporting your argument about Amazon being a mobile hardware vendor to be a mobile hardware vendor.
    They just make their "shops" look attractive enough.




    So pretty much like a large percentage of Android phones - many (most?) of which never get updated to recent versions.



    You mistake a new version of Android with a totally different OS.
    To support new generations of apps they only need to support the APIs that new apps require - and the original Android is still open source. Amazon can merge the necessary changes back in.



    You are defeating your own argument. With an Android fork they have to do a bit of maintaining their own version. Most of the work is done by Google for free.
    With webos they would have to do it all.

    It makes no sense.

    A year or 2 ago Amazon *might* have been interested in webos - if it could get it cheap enough.
    Now it would only hurt them to switch out the OS.



    The Kindle fire is already a fully functional tablet. It has apps and a browser - that's all you need (if well done and well supported).

    In your opinion - what would Amazon actually gain by using webos?
    More apps? - nope
    Multi-tasking? - Not important on Kindles - and already available in Android.
    Attractive UI - Amazon already reskinned their Android fork to their own liking.

    So - on the down side
    * confusing market with 2 incompatible OS.
    * paying several hundred millions
    * Additional investments in time and money to adapt webos to their Kindle needs
    * maintaining a complete OS by themselves, a lot of which they have no use for (not going into smartphones, not interested in open tech, etc...) instead of just maintaining their delta on source provided for free by Google

    On the up side (for Amazons purposes)
    * nothing
    This whole mess is just dumb.

    Apple was in the hardware business, now they are a content provider as well, they did this to have a closed ecosystem.
    Amazon is a content provider trying to have a closed ecosystem, they need to have hardware to do it.

    And you are trivializing the whole OS thing, I don't know what you do for a living but it is pretty obvious that it has nothing to do with software development.
  7. cgk
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdale View Post
    If Amazon wanted to update, why would they have started with 2.3 and not 3.0? I think it's a stretch to assume they will want to update to 4.0.
    That was never an option for them - Google never open sourced it (although I believe it is now available because of the release of 4.0). because they didn't want people try to cram it onto phones. That's also CM7 will leap to CM9 because CM8 is reserved for a honeycomb release that will never come.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    And you are trivializing the whole OS thing, I don't know what you do for a living but it is pretty obvious that it has nothing to do with software development.
    Funny. :-)

    Maintaining an OS is not a trivial thing - and you won't find a place where I said that.
    * Maintaining an Android fork - or regularly rebasing patches on new Android versions is not trivial.
    * But neither is maintaining webos

    So the choice is: Having to invest work and also pay for it (to buy the rights to webos) or having to invest work and not pay for it (by using Android for which they don't have to pay several hundred mio $$).

    Again - what's the advantage for Amazon in buying webos? They already have a tablet and an OS to run on it. And plenty of apps to go with it.

    You need to recheck your Obvious-O-Meter - software development pays my bills. ;-)
    Last edited by tholap; 11/16/2011 at 06:16 PM.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    That was never an option for them - Google never open sourced it (although I believe it is now available because of the release of 4.0). because they didn't want people try to cram it onto phones. That's also CM7 will leap to CM9 because CM8 is reserved for a honeycomb release that will never come.
    Honeycomb will likely never be open source because Google took shortcuts when making it that they don't want to reveal but ICS is open and the code is out there.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by frmorrison View Post
    Honeycomb will likely never be open source because Google took shortcuts when making it that they don't want to reveal but ICS is open and the code is out there.
    Actually, all the Honeycomb source was released along with the Ice Cream Sandwich source a few weeks ago.

    My thought has long been that Amazon could make far more use of WebOS than merely its patents. I believe they could make WebOS Kindle Fire type devices while retaining the investment in their App Store and keep their users happy.


    The key is a product called Alien Dalvik that allows Android apps to run on non-Android operating systems. RIM uses Alien Dalvik in some of their products.

    Alien Dalvik would allow Amazon to keep their Android app store as it is, perhaps allowing WebOS apps as well. Most Android apps would continue run the same, so most customers would have never even notice that their core operating system had changed.

    This - I think is the very best case result we can hope for. Though were I betting on the outcome, I'd say that just before Christmas, Whitman will announce that WebOS will is being End Of Life'd. If we were very, very good children this year, she may open-source the whole shebang. (fingers crossed)
  11. #51  
    If we were very, very good children this year, she may open-source the whole shebang. (fingers crossed)
    All projects open source only survive when do you have a "Big Player" working...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    All projects open source only survive when do you have a "Big Player" working...


    Best Regards...
    While that's true for many large open source projects, it's not true for all of them. Were HP to open source the OS, they'd probably apply some level of investment to the project. So HP would take the roll you describe.

    I believe a open source WebOS would do quite well. A number of well known FOSS advocates have been (much) less than thrilled with the level of openness offered by Android. An open sourcing of WebOS would be their chance to put their money where their mouth is.

    Were WebOS to be open sourced, I expect it would soon be one of the most favored FOSS projects on the planet. There is nothing hotter than smart phones, and a truly open source smartphone OS would receive tremendous attention.
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