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  1.    #1  
    As have all of you, I have been watching Léo Apotheker's Palm/HP/webOS drama with great interest, sometimes with amusement, sometimes disdain or anger, often raw horror.

    Horror because I have come to realize how many lives have been affected by Léo's little folly. In one arrogant, thoughtless moment, thousands of careers were changed. People lost their jobs or had their ambitions crushed. Suppliers and distributors had to hustle to save their businesses. Thousands of small companies--moulders, printers, caterers, delivery companies--had to change their plans. And least of all, millions of webOS users like you and me faced the inconvenience of indecision and uncertainty.

    If I accost you on a street and steal $5 from you, I am likely to face months or years in jail, the loss of my reputation, a fine, any number of other penalties. But Léo, in a poorly thought out flick of his wrist, stole something from millions of people like those described above.

    Is there no way this man, way in over his head as CEO, can be charged with a crime? I guess I know there is not. Corporate robber barons and petty thieves operate with impunity, shielded by golden parachutes and lucrative contracts. But Léo Apotheker should stand as a special case, an incompetant fool who may be fluent at 5 languages but who can't see the simple truth of the harm he caused.

    <<edited by staff>> Godspeed, Meg Whitman!
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 11/09/2011 at 11:59 AM. Reason: harsh/unnecessary
    Kyocera 6035 > Samsung SPH-i300 > i330 > i500 > Treo 600 > 700p > 755p > PRĒ Minus > Touchpad & FrankenPre2
  2. #2  
    C'mon, you need to chill out with wishing someone to hell and all... even if you're kidding. You're talking about a freakin phone. There are more important things in life.
    SnotBoogie likes this.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    C'mon, you need to chill out with wishing someone to hell and all... even if you're kidding. You're talking about a freakin phone. There are more important things in life.
    I don't necessarily agree with the OP's conclusions myself, but, he certainly has a right to his/her opinion - you may not be as offended has he apparently was by LA's actions, but, many were, and, the HP shareholders certainly were, and filed lawsuits against HP as a result.

    Just sayin...
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4. #4  
    Ummmm what?? Lol .. Will the real Meg Whitman please stand up!

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
    IGNTNUNLMTD likes this.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    C'mon, you need to chill out with wishing someone to hell and all... even if you're kidding. You're talking about a freakin phone. There are more important things in life.
    Think of it like this.. If you where the one who lost his/her job as a result...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    If I accost you on a street and steal $5 from you, I am likely to face months or years in jail...
    Man, sentencing for petty crime is tough over in the USA.

    Spyke
    SnotBoogie likes this.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    You're talking about a freakin phone. There are more important things in life.
    OP here.

    No, I am not talking about a freakin phone. I am talking about the consequences of Léo Apotheker's actions, which might have been small to each individual (although as sketch42 said some people lost their jobs), but taken as a whole his actions had huge consequences. HP as a company lost billions of dollars in market capitalization. Thousands, even millions, of people each lost a little something, while Léo Apotheker was awarded millions of dollars in compensation.

    Being a CEO is a responsibility--to your Board, to your stockholders, to your customers, to your employees, and to all of us on these forums who are one or more of the above. Léo Apotheker apparantely did not have the character or skill to be a CEO, and his actions bordered on criminal.
    Kyocera 6035 > Samsung SPH-i300 > i330 > i500 > Treo 600 > 700p > 755p > PRĒ Minus > Touchpad & FrankenPre2
  8. #8  
    At most you can hope for a class action lawsuit. He didn't do anything personally criminal to a specific individual or shareholder, and as CEO these decisions are within his mandate, regardless of how stupid/reckless he was in making them.
    [ everythingsablur ]

    Palm lineage:
    PalmPilot Pro -> PalmPilot Pro w/ 2MB OS 3 upgrade -> Handspring Visor Deluxe -> Handspring Visor Prism -> Handspring Visor Prism w/ VisorPhone -> ... (the long hiatus) ... -> HP TouchPad & HP Pre 3 (AT&T)
  9. trwrt's Avatar
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    #9  
    Under this legal theory, no project could ever be shut down no matter how much money it was losing or how poor the future prospects. Heck, even doctors who mess up and kill somebody don't go to prison as long as it was simply a mistake and not malicious or fraudulent.
  10. #10  
    Also keep in mind, a CEO does not inact large-scale, sweeping changes to a company without the involvement/approval of the BOD.

    Leo isn't the only guy to get blame. HPs BOD has shown it is disfunctional and ill-equipped to represent the best interests of the shareholders for the last decade or so.

    In any case, it isn't criminal to fire/lay off a person except in a few, narrow, hotbutton reasons (because they are gay, black, Hebrew, etc.) any more so than it is criminal for an individual person to quit a job. Would you like it if your company could sue you because you wanted to quit and go get a better job?

    -Suntan
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by trwrt View Post
    Under this legal theory, no project could ever be shut down no matter how much money it was losing or how poor the future prospects. Heck, even doctors who mess up and kill somebody don't go to prison as long as it was simply a mistake and not malicious or fraudulent.
    Under this legal theory, the doctor would be legally required to keep operating until he/she brought the patient back to life...

    -Suntan
  12. #12  
    Incompetence is not and should not be a crime. The only potential crime Leo might have committed would be intentionally misleading investors. Even if you could show some actions to this effect, I doubt he would be prosecuted for them. These laws are really intended for situations where someone is completely fraudulent, ie a person goes around promising the sky and the moon, gets millions invested and promptly heads to Brazil with the money without even attempting anything which had been promised. The closest you would likely find with Leo would be him talking up webOS while having sent some emails looking into shutting down the operations. I doubt someone is going to take on prosecuting that case.

    Gargoyle
  13. #13  
    Well, we don't know if Leo's strategy would have worked in the long term since he was so abruptly cut off. It's a marathon, not a sprint, after all.
  14. #14  
    I suspect that L.A. allowed his EGO to get in the way of rationality.
    He could probably and successfully plead 'insanity'!

    I for one can not even remotely imagine what it must feel/be like, to 'sit at the top' of a MASSIVE Corporate Pyramid such as HP.. but if on a 'bad hair day', something (like Touchpads & webOS not being well recieved in the reviewer/open marketplace, largely due to your own incompetance) 'gets your goat', then unfortunately, as 'God' at the top of that pyramid.. you probably would be blind as to the total knockdown effects of your own seemingly 'rational' decisions?

    Clearly the BOD were also aghast at his decisions and apparently then essentially PAID him to 'exit'.. rapidly!

    So yes.. would the 'real' Meg please stand UP, (for webOS)!

    Last edited by Mutoidi; 11/09/2011 at 12:32 PM.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutoidi View Post
    ...
    ...Clearly the BOD were also aghast at his decisions and apparenlty then essentially PAID him to 'exit'.. rapidly!


    Would this be the same Board of Directors that dumped Walter Hewlett from the board 'cause he disagreed with the (bloated) Compaq acquisition? The same board who executed a witch-hunt for Mark Hurd (who increased bottom-line by 247% in less than 2 years), got rid of him, and hired LA without due diligence?

    I would say HP deserves all it is getting, and while I agree with the OP that LA should be held accountable for NOT following through on public statements of Strategy, I feel the entire board probably needs to be treated in a similar fashion.

    /rant

    russ
    crutzulee likes this.
  16. Honis's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    If I accost you on a street and steal $5 from you, I am likely to face months or years in jail, the loss of my reputation, a fine, any number of other penalties. But Léo, in a poorly thought out flick of his wrist, stole something from millions of people like those described above.
    That analogy does not fit what happened. Leo was the leader of the company. It's more like this:

    You add someone as a signatory to your bank account and then the worst happens, they drain it into an account where you are not a signatory. What the person did to your money is 100% legal and not considered stealing because you gave them permission to handle your account. This is why a lot of divorced people I know tell me they will never again add their next spouse to their personal bank account (usually the account the paychecks are deposited and savings).

    Who's fault is it the account got drained? The person who trusted the second signatory, not the person who took advantage of the situation. In this case it falls on the Board of Directors at HP because they picked Leo for the spot. Maybe even rolling it back to the decision to kick Hurd.


    If you want "to get" Leo, you'll need to check if he bought or sold stock after the decision for the new direction and before the decision became officially public. (Insider Trading, good luck, I doubt anyone VP and up would be stupid enough to do this).
    Last edited by Honis; 11/09/2011 at 01:21 PM. Reason: english
    I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
    Device history: *free feature Phone*x3 -> LG Rumor -> Palm Pre -> HTC Arrive (3days) -> Samsung Nexus S 4G (28 days) -> Samsung Galaxy S II Sprint Epic 4G Touch -> Palm Pre -> Pre 3
  17. #17  
    HP Dust and Dust Mites

    "All my tomorrows start today" -Paulo Coelho
    But at HP, "All yesterdays start tomorrow"

    Leo Apotheker for Dummies
    and much more : Leo Apotheker's Biography "My Life" (see Google :-))

    You are welcome!

    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world – the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -Bernard Shaw
  18. #18  
    Looks like HP just dropped another 5.4%..

    Maybe it doesn't now matter much whose 'in charge'?

  19. Honis's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutoidi View Post
    Looks like HP just dropped another 5.4%..

    Maybe it doesn't now matter much whose 'in charge'?

    Well, you need to look at trends, not individual days (not entirely true of course since markets can crash in minutes, companies can make stupid decisions, etc). HP has been trending upward for about a month (October 3rd). It's up nearly $3 in the last month, +11.9% including the drop today.

    Most of the market took a dive today. Of the stocks I watch (16 total) for fun, HP, Dell, Caterpillar, AMD, and Microsoft lost more than the Dow. All 16 lost at least 1.2% with Northrup Grumman losing 1.24%.
    I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
    Device history: *free feature Phone*x3 -> LG Rumor -> Palm Pre -> HTC Arrive (3days) -> Samsung Nexus S 4G (28 days) -> Samsung Galaxy S II Sprint Epic 4G Touch -> Palm Pre -> Pre 3
  20. #20  
    Yes.. indeed.. but as you say, a lot can happen in a day!

    It will be interesting to observe now what the 'knock on' effects of an apparently rapidly destabilising EU 'trend', will be upon Global Stocks!

    Perhaps I am sensing that the existing and creaking Global Financial System really can not successfully prop itself up for very much longer.. whomsoever is 'running in the race'?

    Time will tell I guess!

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