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  1. #21  
    A fun idea to play with, but if everyone who made a stupid decision were indicted and put on trial....

    (Maybe I should buy some prison stocks?)
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  2. gbp
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    #22  
    Trust me with this, A German cannot run A Big American corporation. There is a big culture difference.
  3. #23  
    Hey I'm an HP stockholder as well and I'm hurting too. Anyway....
    We should just sue Italy and Greece.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    As have all of you, I have been watching Léo Apotheker's Palm/HP/webOS drama with great interest, sometimes with amusement, sometimes disdain or anger, often raw horror.

    Horror because I have come to realize how many lives have been affected by Léo's little folly. In one arrogant, thoughtless moment, thousands of careers were changed. People lost their jobs or had their ambitions crushed. Suppliers and distributors had to hustle to save their businesses. Thousands of small companies--moulders, printers, caterers, delivery companies--had to change their plans. And least of all, millions of webOS users like you and me faced the inconvenience of indecision and uncertainty.

    If I accost you on a street and steal $5 from you, I am likely to face months or years in jail, the loss of my reputation, a fine, any number of other penalties. But Léo, in a poorly thought out flick of his wrist, stole something from millions of people like those described above.

    Is there no way this man, way in over his head as CEO, can be charged with a crime? I guess I know there is not. Corporate robber barons and petty thieves operate with impunity, shielded by golden parachutes and lucrative contracts. But Léo Apotheker should stand as a special case, an incompetant fool who may be fluent at 5 languages but who can't see the simple truth of the harm he caused.

    <<edited by staff>> Godspeed, Meg Whitman!
    You have not said a single thing that amounts to an indictable offense. He's not going to be charged with a crime based on what you said because its not a crime to be an unsuccessful CEO, get fired, and get paid a fat severance to leave. It's almost the norm.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    If I accost you on a street and steal $5 from you, I am likely to face months or years in jail, the loss of my reputation, a fine, any number of other penalties.
    No you won't. And in California where HP is there's is massive jail overcrowding and you won't even spend a night in jail. It's hardly worth the cost of incarcerating you. They won't even send you to the morgue to hang out with Lindsay. And she stole something with thousands. And is a repeat dumb-***.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    But Léo, in a poorly thought out flick of his wrist, stole something from millions of people like those described above.
    I don't get that. I hardly know what that means. A flick of the wrist? What was he doing by flicking his wrists? Regardless he hasn't stolen anything. No matter how much you may disagree with HP's business decision. Bad decisions don't equate to theft. And he surely didn't make bad decisions unilaterally.

    Not only that, it is by no means an obviously bad decision for HP to making webos devices. WebOS devices weren't making money, they've never made money under Palm or HP, and only hope has them making money in the future. Momentum was not on their side. Not a sure thing at all. They have not just jumped up and said "oh we were so wrong to shut down webos." On the contrary. If it was obviously a wrong decision they'd have reversed it and announced a new commitment to new devices already. But it's not obviously wrong. Spinning off PSG? Yeah they had a change of heart. WebOS? No, it's far from conclusive to the unbiased observer that shutting it down was an error. Which is why they continue to figure out what to do with it. It may have been a very sound business decision. People that like webos may not like it but they are not unbiased. All they want is a phone at any cost. That's not the standard for if a business decision is sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    Corporate robber barons and petty thieves operate with impunity, shielded by golden parachutes and lucrative contracts.
    Golden parachutes and lucrative contracts don't protect robber barons or petty thieves. Both are crimes and you can prosecute. A parachute is merely a payment on leaving and a lucrative contract is nothing more then a right to receive a fat salary. They don't immunize people from a claim of criminal liability. What protects a CEO in this case is the nature of the corporate entity that shields an employee from being personally liable from the huge majority of their activities on behalf of a corporation.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    OP here.
    HP as a company lost billions of dollars in market capitalization.
    HP lost billions because it pre announced a big miss for the 3rd Quarter and then actually announced a large Quarterly loss, Then gave guidance that they were going to have a worse then expected 4th Quarter, And were going to effectively lose 1/3 of there revenue by spinning off PSG. HP did NOT lose it's market capitalization merely because they canceled WebOS, devices that where costing PSG more then half of it's already declining quarterly profits. A companies share price it an evaluation by the market that based on the profits they expect in the future the price it's at is fair. As soon as HP says, next quarter will suck; oh and buy the way were permanently going to spin off 1/3 of our profits to a separate business, the profits expected in the future decline drastically and a stock sells off until it's price comes in line with what buyers expect is fair based on the, then, new readjusted earnings outlook. Couple that with the notorious sign of real problems, pre announcing a bad quarter and HP was never not going to plummet. For example Just like Netflix's share price plummeted when it merely announced a bad quarter and coupled that with declining subscriptions making analysts thing the future wouldn't be so bright as they thought. The stock adjusted. That's how it works.


    And that decline started well before this announcement. April 23rd, 2010 HP was at a high of 53.90 and was falling. by the Time Hurd left in August of 2010 it fell to 40 dollars. So he too had a 20% decline on his way out. The problems with HP didn't start with Leo nor did the stock decline. It's a company with no new products that enough people will buy and largely in stagnant or declining markets.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBears View Post
    his actions bordered on criminal.
    so far nothing i've heard is even close to criminal but rather were completely within the scope of his employment and completely lawful. Merely saying "criminal" over and over doesn't make something a crime. It's one thing if there are allegations of something like a plot to not report debt or a claim that he commingled his funds with HP funds or even made improper loans to himself from HP coffers but I've heard nothing of the sort.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 11/15/2011 at 11:12 PM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
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    #25  
    Leo is the "easy" target but no one should be surprised by his actions. The guy basically came in with the premise of turning HP into SAP - a SOFTWARE vendor. He tried to do just that.

    HP board hastily replaced the prior CEO and was shocked when Leo wanted to make good on his commitment so abruptly. It sucks for webOS user base, but criminal charges/death/etc are by no means warranted
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