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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    hysterical. maybe somebody with an accounting background can clear this up but I don't think it is a "tax write-off" no matter what.

    I think, as a sunk cost, it would count against their profits for tax purposes, lowering taxable profit. But it would seem to me it would have the same effect whether they kept/buried WebOS or open sourced it. either way, they lost money that counts against their profits.

    Correct? Close?
    You are correct from my understanding.

    The open sourcing of it wouldn't change their ability to write it off. Now donating some or all of webOS to a recognized charitable organization (US charity with federal tax ID number) would give them an additional write off, but the loss is a loss. You would only get the additional write off if it were a donation to an applicable charity.

    Here's the kicker, the "value" of said charitable donation would be reduced based on the "loss" taken on the product. So you are effectively devaluing the donation in conjunction with the donation.

    Not sure what the limit is on charitable donation for a corporation or the rules around all that.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  2. cgk
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    hysterical. maybe somebody with an accounting background can clear this up but I don't think it is a "tax write-off" no matter what.

    I think, as a sunk cost, it would count against their profits for tax purposes, lowering taxable profit. But it would seem to me it would have the same effect whether they kept/buried WebOS or open sourced it. either way, they lost money that counts against their profits.

    Correct? Close?

    The sunk cost is one thing but they also mentioned a 1 billion cash charge in their q3 earnings when they took WebOS out back behind the woodshed.
  3. #103  
    Tell me where the woodshed is... I'll collect their garbage...


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  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    if open source is not profitable i don't see how it is "the right" thing to do. They are not a charity.
    Sad that you seem to equate "the right thing" to do with money/profit. How about showing a bit of loyalty to both the internal and external developers (and users) by letting the platform some spent years of their life on live on and even expand rather than just shutting it down?
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    The sunk cost is one thing but they also mentioned a 1 billion cash charge in their q3 earnings when they took WebOS out back behind the woodshed.
    Their charge was only for shutting down the hardware, to my knowledge it didn't include WebOS itself. If they decide to shutdown WebOS they could charge that out as well. But if they OpenSource it they wouldn't be able to take the charge. At least that is my understanding of it...
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
    Sad that you seem to equate "the right thing" to do with money/profit. How about showing a bit of loyalty to both the internal and external developers (and users) by letting the platform some spent years of their life on live on and even expand rather than just shutting it down?
    Well, isnt whole thing based on profit? HP shut down webOS becouse of loss. Anyway,
    you should explain your point to HP board, not to PC member
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
    Sad that you seem to equate "the right thing" to do with money/profit. How about showing a bit of loyalty to both the internal and external developers (and users) by letting the platform some spent years of their life on live on and even expand rather than just shutting it down?
    The only selfish person is you.

    It's a dead platform. These webos app developers have mortgages to pay and kids to feed --- don't try to drag these people into a deeper hole.
  8. #108  
    "Looking for a better model"--said DeWitt to the channel about webOS.

    Don't know what this means. Thank precentral member Akitayo for finding this article.

    http://forums.precentral.net/hp-webo...webos-psg.html

    http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/He...Franco-288386/
  9. #109  
    sad that they are getting rid of it so soon, considering the vast majority of people just found out about it at the end of august.

    maybe they should have done a fire sale when they first got webOS, then enough people would have known about it early enough that they wouldn't have to kill it now. sad.

    oh well let's celebrate it's 2 month lifespan nonetheless
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by mistermojorizin View Post
    sad that they are getting rid of it so soon, considering the vast majority of people just found out about it at the end of august.

    maybe they should have done a fire sale when they first got webOS, then enough people would have known about it early enough that they wouldn't have to kill it now. sad.

    oh well let's celebrate it's 2 month lifespan nonetheless
    ?? They are not "getting rid of it" read my post above yours. Its ambigjous but talks about a better business model, not a beheading
  11. #111  
    Well, let's see if we can figure out what "looking for a better model" means. I figure there have been three milestone events since August.

    HP stopped making webOS hardware, then followed it up with a round of layoffs to prove they were serious.
    The VP of dev relations quit after less than a year of overseeing webOS with no replacement announced.
    HP moved webos under the purview of the "Office of Strategy and Technology," a department that may not exist after November 1, when the man who headed said department retires.

    So when DeWitt says they're "looking for a better model" for webOS, they're doing it without anyone selling (or even working on) hardware, nobody to oversee developer relations, and there isn't even anyone formally in charge of webOS. Does that sound like a company that considers webOS to have any strategic importance or commercial appeal?

    I think "looking for a better model" is code for "we're going to try to strip it for parts before we put it on the shelf for good."
  12. #112  
    If they are auctioning it off, why is DeWitt running around the channel suggesting new business model?
    Maybe HP is trying to make a deal with the buyer that HP still uses webOS or perhaps Enyo apps for SMB-- those ultra light notebooks mentioned in the article?.
    Pieces don't fit. Jaaksi still deeply working on the O/S. Biz software like picsel and companion link arrives. Enyo gets put onto phones.

    On the other hand, Kerris leaving suggests he either doesn't like the new buyer or the supposed new strategy or worse yet, they announce a decision for PSG soon but webOS still in limbo while they figure things out or negotiate with new buyer.

    As for strategy head of HP leaving, they could easily announce shortly which dept webOS will be shuffled to. And those engineers still making the PSG products, they could make for webOS also, couldn't they? Didn't I read that HP is committing to ARM servers?

    edit: one thing is sure, HP better settle this before the holidays.

    edit 2: whoops I meant DiFranco is running around the channel. Come to think of it, where is DeWitt in all of this, he was all over the airwaves in July and now he is nowhere to be seen?

    edit 3: i bet kerris goes to Nokia
    Last edited by bluenote; 10/26/2011 at 09:59 PM.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    The only selfish person is you.

    It's a dead platform. These webos app developers have mortgages to pay and kids to feed --- don't try to drag these people into a deeper hole.
    I'll assume you are being sarcastic... Hopefully you don't think by HP OpenSourcing WebOS and giving the developers an opportunity and choice to continue developing for an OS that would live on rather than just get shut down is detrimental to them and selfish of me???
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    #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
    I'll assume you are being sarcastic... Hopefully you don't think by HP OpenSourcing WebOS and giving the developers an opportunity and choice to continue developing for an OS that would live on rather than just get shut down is detrimental to them and selfish of me???
    I remember listening to the webosroundup's podcast immediately after HP's announcement of killing the TouchPad --- the host just said it plainly, as a proprietor of a webos news website and as a fellow webos app developer, he would not in good conscience advocate anyone to develop for webos at the moment.

    That's how responsible adults think.

    Why don't you go to haiku and look at their progress of recreating BeOS 10 years later? They just got wifi encryption a couple of weeks ago.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post

    I think "looking for a better model" is code for "we're going to try to strip it for parts before we put it on the shelf for good."
    Bad business model= investing billions with zero return. Better business model= investing zero dollars with zero return!?
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by residentcomedian View Post
    lol lol lol, this sounds like the season finale/cliffhanger to a T.V. drama, lol.
    forgot to add one thing:
    Pivot Oct issue created but not released by HP. If there was business continuation (by them or new buyer), it would have made sense to release Pivot. That and Kerris leaving, seems ominous.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
    Sad that you seem to equate "the right thing" to do with money/profit. How about showing a bit of loyalty to both the internal and external developers (and users) by letting the platform some spent years of their life on live on and even expand rather than just shutting it down?
    HP is a for profit business. It's in their charter. It's the purpose of the business. It's not a non profit. It not a government agency that serves the public good. When you judge what is "right" i don't see a world where that is done from the perspective of someone that doesn't own the asset. That's like saying the "right" thing for Coke to do is just give all their Cokes away free. That's not the "right" thing for the business and honestly, that's the perspective that will determine what happens. Not some pie in the ski world where companies give away 1.2 billion dollar assets out of the goodness of their hearts. It's not about equating "right" with money or profit. It's about understanding that this is a business in a business context not a fantasy world where everything is free. In business the issue is what's right from a business standpoint. It may be nice for sprint to just give everyone free wimax and LTE but they won't because they paid for a huge chunk of Clearwire and even though it's not working they aren't giving it away for free. They have a business to run.

    When you judge what is to be done with a corporate asset i think it's rather naive to think that a company would spend 1.2 billion dollars to acquire an asset and then give it away for nothing

    And here is reality check and i'll be blunt so as there is no misunderstanding. I have NO loyalty to any company phone or set of developers. Not HP, Palm, Apple, Microsoft, Google, not the Samsung flip i had before, not the Sanyo i had before that, not to my old jeep or my old honda, or my Playstation 1, or my xbox 360 or whatever. And surely not developers. No offense to them. They do good work and contribute lots but I don't know these people. These developers. We aren't buddies and i don't owe them anything. If they are Palm people they got paid to work. If they are not palm people then they are choosing to do work without pay or to get paid by selling an app and that's their choice. It's not my obligation. If I buy an app i paid for it. I don't owe them squat except to pay if they are charging. They don't put food on my table. They don't pay my medical bills. When i my leg broken in 2 places and my knee destroyed they weren't in rehab with me learning to walk normally. They weren't around when my family members died of cancer or got shot. Loyalty? Get out of here. Loyalty is for your family. It's earned. You want to give them extra cash? You feel a duty to them? That's on you. That's a personal choice. I can respect that. I understand. But i'm on a Pre minus. Have been for a while. I got left behind long ago. I haven't added a new app in almost 20 months. I think the last app i added was facebook or maybe Twee. Those developers haven't updated my phone with anything i was looking for in years. And i've had problems with Webos in general as long as i've had this phone and Palm's internal developers haven't fixed many of those things. Loyalty? you get zero from me. I'm loyal to my friends. I'm loyal to my family. WebOS may be some sort of idealistic crusade for you that you need to keep going. That's your choice. But to me it's just a phone.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 10/27/2011 at 06:05 AM.
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  18. #118  
    hmmn, not to muddy the waters but Apple is working hard to get my loyalty. Sure is cheaper for them to have me buy more of the apple ecosystem than it is for them to convert a non apple user. Now HP seems to be talking about a unified brand and consumerization, just like apple is doing...I,vevbeen using an hp phone, and bought 2 successor phones AND I bought a tablet AND accessories foe each item AND software. Will they take advantage of this or sell their webos asset to someone who does? Or won't they? Tune in next month, same batty time, same batty channel.
  19. #119  
    yep kerris went to nokia .marcoagenti welcomes him via twitter
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    HP is a for profit business. It's in their charter. It's the purpose of the business. It's not a non profit. It not a government agency that serves the public good. When you judge what is "right" i don't see a world where that is done from the perspective of someone that doesn't own the asset. That's like saying the "right" thing for Coke to do is just give all their Cokes away free. That's not the "right" thing for the business and honestly, that's the perspective that will determine what happens. Not some pie in the ski world where companies give away 1.2 billion dollar assets out of the goodness of their hearts. It's not about equating "right" with money or profit. It's about understanding that this is a business in a business context not a fantasy world where everything is free. In business the issue is what's right from a business standpoint. It may be nice for sprint to just give everyone free wimax and LTE but they won't because they paid for a huge chunk of Clearwire and even though it's not working they aren't giving it away for free. They have a business to run.

    When you judge what is to be done with a corporate asset i think it's rather naive to think that a company would spend 1.2 billion dollars to acquire an asset and then give it away for nothing
    Your analogies are way off. It would be more like saying the right thing for Coke to do is give away Coke that it planned on dumping out anyway. Or saying the right thing for a restaurant to do is give away left over food rather than putting it in the trash.

    Again, you are missing the point. If HP can not sell of WebOS, then the "right" thing to do to opensource WebOS rather than just let it die and shut it down completely.
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