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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyuepik View Post
    Because I am an active developer and read the developer forums religiously. Not here to troll, but do you actually read the release notes of the updates. Most of the fixes are to Enyo, not the OS.
    They go hand in hand.

    And, Im a total pragmatist - Im not setting myself up for disappointment - I'm recognizing fact versus fiction, and, in that regard, there are certainly many, MANY here who appear to not only wish, but want to prepetuate the failure of WebOS in its entirety by predicting its demise predicated on, well, opinions that they present as fact.

    Again, more often than not, its what we do NOT know that is of the most value.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    "there will be always people here and internet spreading lies about webOS state" reminds me a lot of the people that used to talk about how the "naysayers" were wrong and that the TouchPad was actually selling well and the Pre 3 was still going to come out by the end of summer.
    Nope, but nice try.

    There was an article on the internet somewhere that suggested that the TouchPad was actually selling quite well, according to the author's sources.

    Most here (inlcuding myself) took articles like that with as much a grain of salt as they did other baseless rumors, regardless of their bias.

    I take exception to anyone who states as fact something that is nothing more than their opinion, and, I believe I, and many others, see that as a behavior pattern for someone with other motives than to just share information, support and learn from one another about WebOS, which, might I remind everyone is the stated goal of PreCentral.

    Take a look at this thread, and how those "naysayers" factually predict the failure, downfall, obsolescence of WebOS, based on pretty much their limited knowledge... none of us have enough knowledge to KNOW what did, is and will REALLY happen, but we can certainly opine on it, and state as much, and and discuss it.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  3. #83  
    There is one of standard webOS screwups- Touchpad's problem with sound! Device with great codec that isn't utilized at all! and not only that sound is not pumped as it should be and as it can be, TP is periodically loosing sound! I mean, what kind of negligence is that?
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    I know what I would like to see - work on hardware acceleration of visual elements.
    This is a mixed bag. On one side you have the single-threaded nature of Javascript, on the other the webkit implementation. Using node (the proper node version, not the one that's bundled with webOS <= 3.0.2, which is pretty limited) you can make your app "multithread" using background services for data processing. This (if used by devs) should practically eliminate the smoothness problem.

    And then, webkit, for more and better support for animations, and so on. I know they were on it, don't know if it has changed.
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  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Nope, but nice try.

    There was an article on the internet somewhere that suggested that the TouchPad was actually selling quite well...

    well, sales were bad, but not worse than other tablets (except IPad). HP played whole thing dumb from start, but that's ancient history....
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Nope, but nice try.

    There was an article on the internet somewhere that suggested that the TouchPad was actually selling quite well, according to the author's sources.

    Most here (inlcuding myself) took articles like that with as much a grain of salt as they did other baseless rumors, regardless of their bias.

    I take exception to anyone who states as fact something that is nothing more than their opinion, and, I believe I, and many others, see that as a behavior pattern for someone with other motives than to just share information, support and learn from one another about WebOS, which, might I remind everyone is the stated goal of PreCentral.

    Which is fair.

    But I think the question here is what is there to defend anymore? HP has been letting employees go. There is no webOS hardware being manufactured. Developers aren't jumping on board (the Dropbox petition thread is now 2 years old!). HP doesn't even bother getting the October issue of Pivot -- the most consumer-facing webOS feature of theirs (that requires the least amount of effort) -- out and we're halfway through the month.

    Why pretend this thing is still alive and kicking when there's so much evidence to the contrary?
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    There is one of standard webOS screwups- Touchpad's problem with sound! Device with great codec that isn't utilized at all! and not only that sound is not pumped as it should be and as it can be, TP is periodically loosing sound! I mean, what kind of negligence is that?
    Frankly, I haven't missed sound on the Touchpad, and basically I use it for browsing, testing and movies. My wife's Pixi tends to do it, though. I know I've read it several times here, so it must be a real issue, and probably is related to my wife's Pixi issue.
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  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    This is a mixed bag. On one side you have the single-threaded nature of Javascript, on the other the webkit implementation. Using node (the proper node version, not the one that's bundled with webOS <= 3.0.2, which is pretty limited) you can make your app "multithread" using background services for data processing. This (if used by devs) should practically eliminate the smoothness problem.

    And then, webkit, for more and better support for animations, and so on. I know they were on it, don't know if it has changed.
    They have made some work towards it using the chrome acceleration model.

    It is actually the single threaded nature of their JavaScript that causes me the most headaches. If they had just had the time/desire to put the rendering on a separate thread, I actually think there might still be a TouchPad.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Which is fair.

    But I think the question here is what is there to defend anymore? HP has been letting employees go. There is no webOS hardware being manufactured. Developers aren't jumping on board (the Dropbox petition thread is now 2 years old!). HP doesn't even bother getting the October issue of Pivot -- the most consumer-facing webOS feature of theirs (that requires the least amount of effort) -- out and we're halfway through the month.

    Why pretend this thing is still alive and kicking when there's so much evidence to the contrary?
    Again, seems they're firing only hardware related people. On the other side, DevRel is more active than ever.

    October Pivot issue probably welcomes new webOS version (looking all the rummorology about 3.0.3/4 coming)... As you said, it's a valuable marketing tool, and bolding a new version of webOS on it seems reasonable.

    The problem (which is absolutely understandable) right now is that every move (no matter if little or big) they make (or don't do) as expectable on keeping the platform alive will always send us the "this is the end, guys" message.

    But that's how uncertainity works...
    Newness Developments apps:

  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    well, sales were bad, but not worse than other tablets (except IPad). HP played whole thing dumb from start, but that'sancient history....
    I agree with you, honestly.

    I never believed that a "tablet" market existed, which is why every tablet pretty much failed in the market in comparison; having said that, though, I definitely do not believe that tablets will permanently erode laptop and desktop PC sales - these things are designed to be consumption devices, whille laptops/PC's are production tools, and there is a world of difference between them, that I believe will come full circle within the next year or so - HP getting rid of the PSG group would be, IMO, a very, very stupid move, but I digress.

    I DO believe that we have an "iAnything" phenomenon, currently. Anything with the little "i" in front of it is a "gotta have" by the masses. Its a trend, and, like all trends, it too will come to an end, but, Apple has enjoyed a tremendous success with it, and they DO make good, interesting products, but, the consuming public is pretty fickle, as a group, and I believe, just like past trends throughout history, will tire of the expensive "iAntyhing" products and move on to other things that will be the new flavor of that time.

    The iPad and iPad2 are really nice devices, but, so is the Playbook, and the TouchPad. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, regarding being cunsumption devices. For me, the TP has many advantages over anything else due to its incorporation of WebOS for multitasking, integration with the Pre 3/Veer, and use of Touchstone charging.

    Its the best consumption device I have tried, personally, and at $159, I became an owner, DESPITE the knowledge that HP wont be making them anymore, and that WebOS's future is still an unknown variable.

    Last edited by LCGuy; 10/14/2011 at 07:39 PM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyuepik View Post
    They have made some work towards it using the chrome acceleration model.

    It is actually the single threaded nature of their JavaScript that causes me the most headaches. If they had just had the time/desire to put the rendering on a separate thread, I actually think there might still be a TouchPad.
    Your solution is Node. I'm working my only Enyo app to keep the app side as a UI manager only, and moving all the processing stuff to Node, and every webOS dev should do the same.
    Newness Developments apps:

  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Which is fair.

    But I think the question here is what is there to defend anymore? HP has been letting employees go. There is no webOS hardware being manufactured. Developers aren't jumping on board (the Dropbox petition thread is now 2 years old!). HP doesn't even bother getting the October issue of Pivot -- the most consumer-facing webOS feature of theirs (that requires the least amount of effort) -- out and we're halfway through the month.

    Why pretend this thing is still alive and kicking when there's so much evidence to the contrary?
    For me absence of hardware doesn't have to be sign of imminent death if developers have right stuff in focus.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Which is fair.

    But I think the question here is what is there to defend anymore? HP has been letting employees go. There is no webOS hardware being manufactured. Developers aren't jumping on board (the Dropbox petition thread is now 2 years old!). HP doesn't even bother getting the October issue of Pivot -- the most consumer-facing webOS feature of theirs (that requires the least amount of effort) -- out and we're halfway through the month.

    Why pretend this thing is still alive and kicking when there's so much evidence to the contrary?
    See, you see it as "defending" while I, and most others see it as "we just don't know, and because we don't know, and DO see signs of perpetuation, we still have some HOPE", because we feel that it has such great potential.

    Then, naysayers come along and say that we are "setting ourselves up for disappointment", etc, etc, etc.. like they know something we don't, which, of course, isnt the case.. they know what we do, but, instead of being a fan of the OS, they arent, have their own motives, and forcefully shoot down anything that relates such openmindedness and hope.

    See??



    Trust me, when something definitive is disclosed, Im all over at, as most here are.

    Right now, WebOS IS being developed, updated on all devices, encouraged with contests, communicated with encouragement to developers, and is showing a growing number of applications.

    I think that's reason enough for a pragmatic person to have hope for at least its survival, if not its growth.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Your solution is Node. I'm working my only Enyo app to keep the app side as a UI manager only, and moving all the processing stuff to Node, and every webOS dev should do the same.
    I actually use the PDK/hybrid and pthreads, but that doesn't fix the problem completely. The issue is that every time you access the DOM a render is triggered. What Chrome and Safari do is batch those operations, and allow the rendering code to run in parallel, webOS still causes a lock. Same goes with the more complicated software rendering.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyuepik View Post
    I actually use the PDK/hybrid and pthreads, but that doesn't fix the problem completely. The issue is that every time you access the DOM a render is triggered. What Chrome and Safari do is batch those operations, and allow the rendering code to run in parallel, webOS still causes a lock. Same goes with the more complicated software rendering.
    But you can enqueue your DOM tasks. It's far from the ideal solution, but it's a workaround. I've found that enyo.nextTick() helps a lot in some cases

    But, of course, I don't know with what stuff you're working, so maybe you've tried and discarded it.
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  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    But you can enqueue your DOM tasks. It's far from the ideal solution, but it's a workaround. I've found that enyo.nextTick() helps a lot in some cases

    But, of course, I don't know with what stuff you're working, so maybe you've tried and discarded it.
    I will try enqueueing the DOM tasks next time, I had not thought about that.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardWiz View Post
    Yeah, that's not really how contracts work, companies just don't write ambiguous open ended contracts, especially for products on a platform that they have no interest in supporting or updating. And if it was really a contractual obligation then it would most likely have been done long ago when the rest of the contract was fulfilled. If you don't think that this could (even remotely) possibly have anything to do with showing potential buyers the viability of Enyo than you are surprisingly sillier than even your comments make you appear.
    Who said it was an open-ended contract? Contracts start at a designated period, and end at a designated period. Obviously whatever contracts HP/Palm had with certain developers have not expired, since HP did not expect to pull the plug on webOS when they did (that would be your open-ended contract, one that could be terminated at any time without penalty). No one wants to continue pouring manpower into a dying platform, so they are obviously doing it out of some other obligation.

    And yes, HP wants the platform to still appear viable, I never denied that -- I actually said that was one of the reasons updates were still coming in an earlier post. However, this assumes that potential buyers are stupid and have not researched the past and present of webOS devices, so it's not much of a strategy. But more power to them -- I hope webOS survives, competition leads to innovation.

    Anyway, everything is just speculation pertaining to webOS for right now, since HP is staying mum on the issue. I think more signs point to it going away than point to it being kept alive, and you see it differently. Funny how that works, people seeing things differently.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    Who said it was an open-ended contract? Contracts start at a designated period, and end at a designated period. Obviously whatever contracts HP/Palm had with certain developers have not expired, since HP did not expect to pull the plug on webOS when they did (that would be your open-ended contract, one that could be terminated at any time without penalty). No one wants to continue pouring manpower into a dying platform, so they are obviously doing it out of some other obligation.

    And yes, HP wants the platform to still appear viable, I never denied that -- I actually said that was one of the reasons updates were still coming in an earlier post. However, this assumes that potential buyers are stupid and have not researched the past and present of webOS devices, so it's not much of a strategy. But more power to them -- I hope webOS survives, competition leads to innovation.

    Anyway, everything is just speculation pertaining to webOS for right now, since HP is staying mum on the issue. I think more signs point to it going away than point to it being kept alive, and you see it differently. Funny how that works, people seeing things differently.
    Yeah, I don't think HP had ANY contractual obligations to any developers, that much I can assure you. Full time developers don't have guaranteed contracts. Contractors don't have guaranteed contracts either, they can end at any time.

    As far as the viability of webOS going forward, I have stated that I think that Palm will be bought for patents, although the whole patent litigation and Android actually makes it a more viable platform.

    As big of a company as Google is, they are acting very childish when it comes to these patent issues. I can't believe that a multi-billion dollar technology is not only absolutely clueless when it comes to patents, but acts as if they don't have to do anything about it either. If it continues down this road, Android will be gone very soon.
  19. #99  
    I think the only one that could pull it off is Amazon. They don't need to position the OS with the established Kindle brand. Otherwise, who ever picks it up will just prolong it's death IMO.

    I also think HP could have had a successful licensing program if Leo didn't open his trap on August 18th and tell the world HP is giving up on webOS. This killed any and all hype. Guy is such a tool.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Midway99 View Post
    I also think HP could have had a successful licensing program if Leo didn't open his trap on August 18th and tell the world HP is giving up on webOS. This killed any and all hype. Guy is such a tool.
    I think there would be lot of interest but eventually no licensing because webOS lack some features and in general has performance issues.
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