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  1. cgk
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    #21  
    Minimal risk means that the risk is limited to only those resources each contributes to the project, and doesnt extend beyond that into the remaining company resources - this is usually stated in such agreements.

    So, they could start small, say, one smartphone, or one tablet. If it fails, no harm, limited loss, each walks away with a predictable calculated maximum loss. If it succeeds, there would be another device based on those same terms, or modified to help expand the Joint Venture's potential, however, the risk may increase, to each party, as well, etc.
    (I deleted a bit of my original post because I thought it sounded arsey - feel free to leave the full quote because obviously it's my fault I left it too late to edit)

    Problem is that analysis is devoid of market context - it's just more definitions.

    Let's forget Ios and Android for the moment - those are simply juggernauts at the moment that WebOS is not competition for in sales terms or mind-share. Let's think about WP7 instead.

    So last year, WP7 is launched to a marketing push of around $500 million to limited impact. However, even then, both HTC and Samsung decide to carry on with that rather than adopt WebOS (ZTE and Huwaei are also launching WP7 devices as well as android devices).

    This year, we have all of those players plus Nokia is entering the market and has bet the farm on WP7 - to that end, it will maximise it's carrier relationships and is estimated to be spending upwards of $300 million on marketing and promotional activities.

    So this low-risk strategy means that even avoiding Android and iOS - it requires whoever decides to get involved to take on Microsoft, Samsung, HTC, Nokia, ZTE and Huwaei - each of which is spending significant money on marketing and promotions and has decent established carrier relationships. So you'd need to be spending hundreds of millions to make a similar impact.

    Moreover, unless this deal has secretly been signed months ago, it took Nokia twelve months to make a suitable WP7 device that they wish to bring to market, so let's be optimistic and say they can bring a device to market in... nine months. So they would not be competitiveness of the WP7 platform of almost a year away.

    Low risk you say?

    (that's before we get into the opportunity cost of committing resources to WebOS).

    That's not to say someone might not chance it (Sony???) but it's far from being low-risk.
    Last edited by CGK; 10/13/2011 at 09:27 AM.
  2. cgk
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewP View Post
    I believe that the orginal bidders for Palm were
    HP
    Apple
    Google
    Lenovo
    RIM

    It would seem a reasonable assumption that some of them might still be interested especially as at least two of them only wanted the patent portfolio.

    Andrew
    RIM would be patents only - you only have to look at the top of the company to know that there is no other option.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by kevets View Post
    I'm leaning more in this direction. HP will try and right the ship and hopefully fire their marketing staff, because they did not help the situation one bit.
    Agreed. HP should reboot webOS, kick the tires and start the fire. NetFlix already did a 360 with Qwikster, so why not HP? All is forgiven as long as HP gets busy ASAP. Peace.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    (I deleted a bit of my original post because I thought it sounded arsey - feel free to leave the full quote because obviously it's my fault I left it too late to edit)

    Problem is that analysis is devoid of market context - it's just more definitions.

    Let's forget Ios and Android for the moment - those are simply juggernauts at the moment that WebOS is not competition for in sales terms or mind-share. Let's think about WP7 instead.

    So last year, WP7 is launched to a marketing push of around $500 million to limited impact. However, even then, both HTC and Samsung decide to carry on with that rather than adopt WebOS (ZTE and Huwaei are also launching WP7 devices as well as android devices).

    This year, we have all of those players plus Nokia is entering the market and has bet the farm on WP7 - to that end, it will maximise it's carrier relationships and is estimated to be spending upwards of $300 million on marketing and promotional activities.

    So this low-risk strategy means that even avoiding Android and iOS - it requires whoever decides to get involved to take on Microsoft, Samsung, HTC, Nokia, ZTE and Huwaei - each of which is spending significant money on marketing and promotions and has decent established carrier relationships. So you'd need to be spending hundreds of millions to make a similar impact.

    Moreover, unless this deal has secretly been signed months ago, it took Nokia twelve months to make a suitable WP7 device that they wish to bring to market, so let's be optimistic and say they can bring a device to market in... nine months. So they would not be competitiveness of the WP7 platform of almost a year away.

    Low risk you say?

    (that's before we get into the opportunity cost of committing resources to WebOS).
    CGK;

    Yep, low risk, comparitively, and if it works out, HUGE upside, and freedom from Android and WP7/Mango, if it takes off.

    Your argument above dosnt address the joint venture specifically, but introducing another ecosystem and hardware into the main mix right now. That's something any hardware manufacturer entertaining any sort of relationship with WebOS mobile devices would have already dealt with and gotten past, in order to find a business relationship with WebOS and its owner that suited them best.

    I suggest, and predict, it is a Joint Venture/Strategic Partnership.

    I could be wrong.

    But, I could be right.

    Last edited by LCGuy; 10/13/2011 at 09:33 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    RIM would be patents only - you only have to look at the top of the company to know that there is no other option.
    If WebOS was only be shopped to be sold, and nothing else, HP would have sold it by now for the IP alone, to the highest bidder, I believe - you dont spend tons of time on getting rid of something that you feel and has been proven to be worth nothing.

    That isnt the case, I believe, because HP's WebOS software team is alive and well and kicking out updates to both versions of the OS, and new apps are coming in for all devices, daily.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

    fmarcanojr likes this.
  6. jdale's Avatar
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    #26  
    I wouldn't read too much into development and releases. The WebOS team will continue to crank out updates until either they get fired or reassigned to other projects. We'd hear in either case. Even if management were to decide to trash WebOS entirely, the WebOS team would keep going until they were reassigned - what else are they going to do? Sit on their hands all day? It's their job. Also, it's pretty clear management doesn't tell them anything anyway.

    I also wouldn't read too much into Bing maps on older devices. That could have been part of the original deal with Microsoft. It was probably in testing for quite some time before the release.
  7. #27  
    Didn't HP lay off 500 people working on webOS? Doesn't that really say it all? They have probably retained just enough webOS staff to meet their obligations to current webOS device owners.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    Didn't HP lay off 500 people working on webOS? Doesn't that really say it all? They have probably retained just enough webOS staff to meet their obligations to current webOS device owners.
    They were all in the hardware design division.



    All software staff remains in tact, and working hard on WebOS.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdale View Post
    I wouldn't read too much into development and releases. The WebOS team will continue to crank out updates until either they get fired or reassigned to other projects. We'd hear in either case. Even if management were to decide to trash WebOS entirely, the WebOS team would keep going until they were reassigned - what else are they going to do? Sit on their hands all day? It's their job. Also, it's pretty clear management doesn't tell them anything anyway.

    I also wouldn't read too much into Bing maps on older devices. That could have been part of the original deal with Microsoft. It was probably in testing for quite some time before the release.
    The mere fact that they let go of 500 WebOS hardware design staff almost immediately after the announcement lets you know that they were serious and not going to waste another dime on hardware design/development..

    NOT so for the software side..

    So, with all due respest to your post, my guess is that your contentions above have no relevance to this situation.

    We'll see, soon enough, though, won't we?
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    They were all in the hardware design division.



    All software staff remains in tact, and working hard on WebOS.
    Because they have to, lest they be faced with lawsuits from the people who bought TouchPads or webOS phones expecting more than a few month's support. I doubt they're doing any more work than the bare minimum required to keep the owners of webOS devices happy until a reasonable amount of time passes.

    When it becomes clear to HP that no one is going to buy webOS, expect that team to be trimmed as well, since the illusion of a thriving OS will no longer need to be maintained.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    Because they have to, lest they be faced with lawsuits from the people who bought TouchPads or webOS phones expecting more than a few month's support. I doubt they're doing any more work than the bare minimum required to keep the owners of webOS devices happy until a reasonable amount of time passes.

    When it becomes clear to HP that no one is going to buy webOS, expect that team to be trimmed as well, since the illusion of a thriving OS will no longer need to be maintained.
    Are you trying to imply that the WebOS software guys, who are providing new features via updates to the OS, reviewing NEW apps and updating the app catalog, and offering contests for new app developers, and sending out emails to the developers to keep them interested in the OS, are doing all that for "warranty" issues related to the hardware they sold to date?

    That's delusional, Im sorry.

    If that were the case, you'd see a skeleton crew answering tech support questions, a mass firing of any software programmers, and absolutely no new software updates with new features - only for bugs. You'd also see no emails to developers, or contests to keep them developing, and, most importantly, Richard Kerris wouldnt be tweeting about how everything is full steam ahead for WebOS software wise.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

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    #32  
    I miss webOS. Been using an an HTC android device and though I like the hardware and MOST of the software, webOS was just so much easier to navigate, communicate, and fun to use. If HP decides to crank out new hardware in the future I sure hope it's on a 4+" screen (amongst other factors).
  13. samab's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Are you trying to imply that the WebOS software guys, who are providing new features via updates to the OS, reviewing NEW apps and updating the app catalog, and offering contests for new app developers, and sending out emails to the developers to keep them interested in the OS, are doing all that for "warranty" issues related to the hardware they sold to date?

    That's delusional, Im sorry.

    If that were the case, you'd see a skeleton crew answering tech support questions, a mass firing of any software programmers, and absolutely no new software updates with new features - only for bugs. You'd also see no emails to developers, or contests to keep them developing, and, most importantly, Richard Kerris wouldnt be tweeting about how everything is full steam ahead for WebOS software wise.

    You keep the software team as a whole --- because the software team as a whole is valuable.

    Palm bought the whole BeOS engineering team --- didn't care about BeOS at all.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    You keep the software team as a whole --- because the software team as a whole is valuable.

    Palm bought the whole BeOS engineering team --- didn't care about BeOS at all.
    Right, keep them developing and pushing forward an OS that they intend to scrap?

    I dont think so.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    That's delusional, Im sorry.

    If that were the case, you'd see a skeleton crew answering tech support questions, a mass firing of any software programmers, and absolutely no new software updates with new features - only for bugs. You'd also see no emails to developers, or contests to keep them developing, and, most importantly, Richard Kerris wouldnt be tweeting about how everything is full steam ahead for WebOS software wise.
    I'm the delusional one, eh? Remember this guy?

    http://www.welovetheiraqiinformation...7-minister.jpg

    He could be the Information Minister for a lot of people on this forum.

    As I said, HP has to continue support for webOS, and keep up the illusion of a thriving, evolving OS both for the current owners and for any potential buyers. If it becomes clear that no one is going to buy webOS, I think you're going to see HP begin to wind down. For now, sure, enjoy the idea that webOS has a future. But without new hardware, it doesn't have a future at all, and continuing to pour resources into it isn't good business.
  16. #36  
    Where in the warranty does it guarantee continued support? If HP wanted to do the bare minimum for webOS than webOS would already be in the dumpster or sold off. I really think HP is still working on webOS. Not sure what they are going to do with it but sure hard to believe they are going to scrape it after the recent updates, continued new apps, app give aways, new pivot each month, and continue outcry for developers.

    I was hoping it would end up on an HTC phone some day but I could still settle for HP.
  17. #37  
    I believe that HP will continue to support WebOS until they find out what they are going to do.
  18. samab's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Right, keep them developing and pushing forward an OS that they intend to scrap?

    I dont think so.

    The problem is that the competition is putting 10x more resources into these other platforms --- they are pushing forward at the speed of light. In 6 months, webos will feel like a biplane when the rest of the competition is living in the jet plane era.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  19.    #39  
    I was trying to figure out if the devices showed on the Real Steel movie were just a made up scenes or if the concepts were running truly software and which was it , webOS maybe?

    I also donīt understand if HP have the flexible display technology why they donīt
    come out with it soon and take advantage of them with webOS in. Both together might be a hit.

    I expect Phil Mickinney and the innovation HP division staff are actually participating in the October meetings to suggest something like that. Maybe a flexible webOS smartphone , something revolutionary, something different if they canīt compete with the actual Apple and Android devices.

    Well, if they want to reboot webOS instead of selling it, of course.

    Videos:


  20. cgk
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    #40  
    I expect Phil Mickinney and the innovation HP division staff are actually participating in the October meetings to suggest something like that.
    what innovations in the consumer sector has HP come out with in the last ten years? Honest question because I can't think of any.
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