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  1.    #1  
    Hi all,

    Amazon has now been sued for patent infringement on what used to be PALM'S patents....see link.

    Take care,

    Jay

    Amazon.com, Righthaven, Astrolabe: Intellectual Property
    October 11, 2011, 7:22 AM EDT

    Amazon.com, Righthaven, Astrolabe: Intellectual Property - Businessweek

    According to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office’s database of patent assignments, some of the patents at issue in the case originally issued to Palm Inc. of Santa Clara, California, which was acquired by the Hewlett-Packard Co. in July 2010. VentureBeat reported Sept. 29 that Amazon is contemplating buying Palm from HP.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Hi all,

    Amazon has now been sued for patent infringement on what used to be PALM'S patents....see link.

    Take care,

    Jay

    Amazon.com, Righthaven, Astrolabe: Intellectual Property
    October 11, 2011, 7:22 AM EDT

    Amazon.com, Righthaven, Astrolabe: Intellectual Property - Businessweek

    According to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office’s database of patent assignments, some of the patents at issue in the case originally issued to Palm Inc. of Santa Clara, California, which was acquired by the Hewlett-Packard Co. in July 2010. VentureBeat reported Sept. 29 that Amazon is contemplating buying Palm from HP.
    "Oh, what a tangled web(OS) we weave..."

    Now, conventional wisdom...

    ... DOH!!!

    "WISDOM" WAS THROWN OUT THE DOOR AT HP years ago (OK, maybe it left with Hurd), so this probably means less than nothing as it pertains to Amazon's potential acquisition of all things WebOS. Business sense meets shareholder interests meets threat of more class action suits = cluster-you-know-what-I-mean!
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by russellraff View Post
    "Oh, what a tangled web(OS) we weave..."

    Now, conventional wisdom...

    ... DOH!!!

    "WISDOM" WAS THROWN OUT THE DOOR AT HP years ago (OK, maybe it left with Hurd), so this probably means less than nothing as it pertains to Amazon's potential acquisition of all things WebOS. Business sense meets shareholder interests meets threat of more class action suits = cluster-you-know-what-I-mean!
    Hi all,

    This does make me think more than ever, (and for what ever it's worth), that Amazon is now very interested in acquiring webOS....owning webOS would give Amazon a certain amount of access to former Palm patents....

    I also posted in this site last week, that Amazon was also interested in HP very recently acquired tech in paying stores with you phone as you wallet....after all Amazon has a very large investment in billing and credit card tech... I would think they would like to find other ways to use it to make $!


    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  4. #4  
    patents belong to access/acacia not palm or HP
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    patents belong to access/acacia not palm or HP
    but doesn't HP(palm) own licensing rights?
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    patents belong to access/acacia not palm or HP
    Hi all,

    Unless I misunderstood the issue.....Palm/webOS was grandfathered into using these patents when they were sold off....therefore the grandfathering of these patents is likely to be transferable to who ever owns webOS ...b/c HP did acquire the grandfather status of these patents....it is likely that it is transferable again.

    On a slightly different note....Palm sold very, very few of it treasure trove of patents, they still hold more than 1,000....this just goes to prove that there is likely gold within those patents....after all most of them were theoretic then but more than possible now.

    IE: I know for fact that Palm has a number of patents in roll up screens which wasn't technically possible then and is now.... additionally HP held it's own patent for a fold up screen....that patent may be in play when there is a possible sale of palm/webOS.

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  7. #7  
    This makes no sense.

    They are suing Amazon for patent infringement for a patent that was issued to Palm in 2001?

    Did Palm sell this patent to Smartphone Technologies, with rights to use it in thier own products forever? If so, whomever owns the Palm product line inherits those patent use rights.

    If not, then I see no case.

    If this is the reason for Amazon looking to buy WebOS, then Amazon HAS to be thinking of converting their Fire tablet to WebOS, in order for this to avoild patent infringements they are currently being sued for by Smartphone Technologies.

    That would place a HUGE value on WebOS for them, indeed.

    But, its a very, very HUGE "if".

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

    ilovedessert likes this.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    patents belong to access/acacia not palm or HP
    Palm gets infiinite use of any/all Palm/PalmOne patents in any hardware they produce. I believe that is the agreement that was struck when they broke into 2 companies, separating the software from the hardware.

    This is why Apple never sued Palm or HP, and why no one will touch whomever uses WebOS for patent infringement for mobile devices... and why Palm and then HP never was able to sue anyone else for patent infringement - they don't own the patents, they have infinite licensing use for them as owners of Palm.

    Wherever the name Palm goes, so do those patent rights.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  9. cgk
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    but doesn't HP(palm) own licensing rights?
    My understanding is that perpetual licence is for the use of the patents in regards to the development of Palm OS, in the same way that the licence that Amazon has with Microsoft covers them for the Kindle but not the Kindle Fire.

    This is why Apple never sued Palm or HP,
    No they didn't do that because it wasn't worth the time.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    This makes no sense.

    They are suing Amazon for patent infringement for a patent that was issued to Palm in 2001?

    Did Palm sell this patent to Smartphone Technologies, with rights to use it in thier own products forever? If so, whomever owns the Palm product line inherits those patent use rights.

    If not, then I see no case.

    If this is the reason for Amazon looking to buy WebOS, then Amazon HAS to be thinking of converting their Fire tablet to WebOS, in order for this to avoild patent infringements they are currently being sued for by Smartphone Technologies.

    That would place a HUGE value on WebOS for them, indeed.

    But, its a very, very HUGE "if".

    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Palm gets infiinite use of any/all Palm/PalmOne patents in any hardware they produce. I believe that is the agreement that was struck when they broke into 2 companies, separating the software from the hardware.

    This is why Apple never sued Palm or HP, and why no one will touch whomever uses WebOS for patent infringement for mobile devices... and why Palm and then HP never was able to sue anyone else for patent infringement - they don't own the patents, they have infinite licensing use for them as owners of Palm.

    Wherever the name Palm goes, so do those patent rights.
    Hi all,

    From what I remember you are 100% correct...I'm 99.999999% that Palm/webOS were granted thee use of those patents in perpetuity and they went with the products so who ever owns Palm/webOS also owns those rights as well.

    Additionally, palm split in two as a way of trying to raise funds...it's patents were so far ahead of themselves take they couldn't borrow against them, as 15 or 10 years ago, these things actually being done was unthinkable....yet, just as 15 years ago a portable heart lung by pass machine (to be used at accident scenes) was only a wild idea, yet one of my doctors father who holds multi patents in medicine & performed the 1st heart transplant in the USA and also invented the LVAD, (which his keeping Darth Vadar ooooppspps former VP Cheney alive), actually got it done....

    take care,

    jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    No they didn't do that because it wasn't worth the time.
    Often I agree with you, but not this time - if Apple or anyone else had case, they would sue Palm or HP. Having army of lawyers sitting useless while infriginment case is in front of their eyes is waist of money.
    geekpeter likes this.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    Often I agree with you, but not this time - if Apple or anyone else had case, they would sue Palm or HP. Having army of lawyers sitting useless while infriginment case is in front of their eyes is waist of money.
    I'll go one step further. Failure to act to protect a patent is grounds to LOSE the patent. Therefore, if they had a case they would have been obliged to pursue it.
  13. cgk
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    #13  
    See fundamentally, I don't buy this story that Palm/HP patents are so great - if they were so great, why didn't the bidding for palm go higher? (I believe that Apple only went as high as $600 million)

    In this current time of patent wars, why haven't apple, amazon, google or samsung et al. rushed to licence or buy WebOS so that are covered by those patents if they stop everyone and their dog suing the owner and to make sure the competition does not have access to them (ZDnet reckon the palm patents are worth $3 billion in the current climate but that's based on a guess of 4000 patients and what google paid for motorola - some people think it's half this number - which seems a low figure if they were as fantastic as claimed here).

    Why does nobody want the pot of gold? the most straightforward answer is surely that it's a pot of lead.
    Last edited by CGK; 10/12/2011 at 01:37 PM.
  14. #14  
    Does anyone know what these supposedly valuable patents are other than the generic "Palm owns the patent on the smartphone" thing that's been bandied around for the past few years?
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Does anyone know what these supposedly valuable patents are other than the generic "Palm owns the patent on the smartphone" thing that's been bandied around for the past few years?
    There was an invesment company that did an evaluation of the patent portflio prior to the HP acquisition.., supposedly worth several billions on its own.

    You can go to the USPTO and look it up yourself. Last I checked theere were almost 800 with a quick search., but I beileve there are almost double that, according to that investment company.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Does anyone know what these supposedly valuable patents are other than the generic "Palm owns the patent on the smartphone" thing that's been bandied around for the past few years?
    Engadget did a decent article on it: Apple vs. Palm: the in-depth analysis -- Engadget

    Quite an old article now but I'm sure it's still relevant.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by markdwaterman View Post
    Engadget did a decent article on it: Apple vs. Palm: the in-depth analysis -- Engadget

    Quite an old article now but I'm sure it's still relevant.
    My understanding is that:
    1. Older Palm patents (the ones for PalmOS, not WebOS) are now owned by another company, but Palm (and whomever owns them) can use those patents. These patents include autodimming, video chat, etc. This does NOT mean that the owners of Palm can sue anyone, since they are just users/licensees, not the patent owners. So the old patents aren't scaring off Apple.
    2. WebOS patents and patents made after the split are owned by Palm (HP or whomever owns them), and that the future owner of Palm can use those to sue other companies (or frighten them away from sueing the owner ). These are the patents that scare the competition, especially if the competitors sold more devices than Palm/HP did. If you were Apple, would you want $10 from every Pre sold, but have to give up $10 for every iPhone... yikes!
    3. Many analysts said that the patents alone were worth more than the $1.2 billion paid for all of Palm by HP (unclear if these analysts are incorrectly including the old patents).
    KA1
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism/Digital Link->Treo 650->Treo 700p->Pre->GSM Unlocked Pre 2 (wifi only)->FrankenPre + Touchpad 32 ->+ Touchpad 4G ATT + ATT Pre3 + 64 White Touchpad... bliss.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    In this current time of patent wars, why haven't apple, amazon, google or samsung et al. rushed to licence or buy WebOS .
    Hi all,

    Actually we don't know if Apple or anyone else for that matter has contact HP throughout all of the suing...to try to buy parts or all of Palm/webOS!

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  19.    #19  
    Hi all,

    Here are the patents in question:


    The patents in question:
    6,956,562: Method for controlling a handheld computer by entering commands onto a displayed feature of the handheld computer (originally a PalmSource patent)

    6,466,236: System and method for displaying and manipulating multiple calendars on a personal digital assistant (originally a Palm Inc. patent)

    6,950,645: Power-conserving intuitive device discovery technique in a bluetooth environment (originally a PalmSource patent)

    7,506,064: Handheld computer system that attempts to establish an alternative network link upon failing to establish a requested network link (another PalmSource patent).

    RE40,459: Method and apparatus for communicating information over low bandwidth communications networks (and, yet again, PalmSource)

    You can find them at this article:

    That Didn't Take Long: Amazon Sued For Patent Infringement For New Kindle Fire Tablet
    from the up-in-flames dept

    That Didn't Take Long: Amazon Sued For Patent Infringement For New Kindle Fire Tablet | Techdirt

    NOW MORE THAN EVER I THINK AMAZON WANTS AND WILL END UP BUYING WwebOS!

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    but doesn't HP(palm) own licensing rights?
    they own the right to use the patents to build smartphones. They don't have the right to license those patents to another company. They would have to sell the entire Palm unit to amazon to have a chance at transferring usage rights to amazon.
    ilovedessert likes this.
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