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  1.    #1  
    After seeing the disappointing launch of the iPhone today, I can't help but wonder how HP could let this opporunity to be become a real player in the market pass it by. The iPhone4S excites no one. I'm using a Pre as my phone and have since launch. I may just keep it though it is cracked and scratched . . . it's either an iPhone or WebOS, because as much as the iPhone bores me to death it is at least better than Android OS. I can't believe that HP is dropping this opportunity . . . please, someone see the chance to become a major phone player with WebOS.
  2. tkd27's Avatar
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    #2  
    Well, isn't "missed opportunity with WebOS" HP's big thing? Yeah, I agree that WebOS could have been a player in the mobile operating system arena. But - as an iPhone user who has used a Pre Plus (it was my wife's phone for a year and a half), even taking in to account the Pre 3 hardware, I would never switch to a Pre Phone. IMO, based on the specs (and my experience with the Pre Plus), iPhone 4 beats Pre 3 in every way. iPhone 4S surely beats it (though I'm sticking with my iPhone 4).

    It really saddens me that no one ever really made a great WebOS device. I love the OS and would kill for a reason to switch from iOS. So, like the comparison chart posted on TIPB, I say, *sniffle*.
  3. #3  
    Don't knock the Pre 3 until you have at least held it and at least played with it for a bit, it is NOTHING like the Pre+. Your analogy is like saying my previous wife from Cali cheated on me, so if my next wife is from Cali, she will cheat also.

    The Pre 3 is 2 generation newer than the Pre+ and if you at least hold and use one, you would see a major difference. I am not here to sway you from your iphone, just providing factual and real experience having used both phones.
  4. tkd27's Avatar
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    #4  
    Rover, you're right. I shouldn't judge it based on my experience with the Pre Plus. But even based on the hardware it has, for me, it's not a win over iPhone 4. MAYBE with more app support, it would be a draw or eek out a win based on the strength of WebOS, but I wouldn't trade in my iPhone for it.

    (I tried to link to the comparison chart that was at TIPB, but I guess my rating isn't high enough. But if anyone wants, you can find the chart over there, comparing Pre 3, iPhone 4s and then another phone from the other smartphone guys).

    Obviously, it's not one size fits all, and what it is a killer feature for one is not for another. But for me, I prefer iPhone's virtual keyboard to the Pre's physical keyboard (though maybe I would like it in a bigger form factor, which Pre 3 is).

    It looks like Pre 3's camera is probably pretty similar to iPhone 4 (though a step down from 4S), so that might be a draw.

    But the killer feature for me, when it comes to iPhone, is the battery life. I can't really speak to the Pre 3's battery life, so maybe it's better than iPhone. But I know my iPhone 4 battery life is unbelievable. For a smartphone, I honestly couldn't ask for better. I stream music on my 40 minute drive to and from work every day, play games and surf the web, and the ONLY time I've ever worried about draining the battery before bed time is when I discover a new game and get addicted for a few days (like playing Plants vs. Zombies for 5 hours).

    When I really look at those specs on the Pre 3, I guess it's probably unfair to say that the iPhone 4 is a better phone. They're very similar. Though for a new customer, I think the iPhone 4S is clearly a better phone.

    Oh, and on the OS side, I look at it like this: WebOS is, hands down, a much more fun OS than iOS. But iOS has unbelievable app support. I just love my apps and wouldn't ever want to go without them. So all things considered, IMHO, iOS is my preferred OS at this point.

    Of course, it's different for everyone, though
  5. #5  
    im not bashing anyones opinions here btw, we all use what we like/prefer, but again in another post a whole piece of excelent hardware is seemingly dismissed out of hand due mostly to "apps shortages" and labeled a "bad phone".

    tbh its a good phone, yeah theres not a mountain of apps, but its still a good phone regardless.

    better to label it an "app starved good phone".
  6. #6  
    As much as I like webOS, a slight bit of disappointment with the iPhone wasn't going to be enough to get people to switch from the iPhone to webOS. Those same people are still going to be buying the iPhone 4S in droves, despite disappointment from overly high expectations, and they're most likely going to be happier with it than if they got the Pre 3 anyway.
  7. #7  
    A lot of people tho don't really care what brand of phone they have, their like consoles and pc`s, not all but many just stick to what they know or what they see their friends have.

    Apple have just done amazingly well in that respect, their not automatically the best phone makers, their just the more well known now and that's worked well for them in the long run.

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  8. #8  
    The thing is that the iPhone is the whole package, great hardware and a solid OS. WebOS is, as the name implies it, an Operating System only. I dont think HP can compete with Apple hardware-wise.

    We know that it takes more than a great OS to sell. WebOS needs to stick with a good device manufacturer in order to survice. If HP plays its card well, might as well license the OS for a descent amount and keep the community alive, selling it would be another option, but not sure HP loves WebOS as we do to let go. Else, i think WebOS has little to no chances if HP leaves untoched... Nevertheless, I will stick with my Veer untill i see something better than a borring iOS, stiff droid or lame Mango .
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Church Punk View Post
    The thing is that the iPhone is the whole package, great hardware and a solid OS. WebOS is, as the name implies it, an Operating System only. I dont think HP can compete with Apple hardware-wise.

    We know that it takes more than a great OS to sell. WebOS needs to stick with a good device manufacturer in order to survice. If HP plays its card well, might as well license the OS for a descent amount and keep the community alive, selling it would be another option, but not sure HP loves WebOS as we do to let go. Else, i think WebOS has little to no chances if HP leaves untoched... Nevertheless, I will stick with my Veer untill i see something better than a borring iOS, stiff droid or lame Mango .
    the other difference is that Apple will push their products regardless of risk, and as we know HP are the total opposite, they bailed pretty much instantly, even so far as to keep releasing stuff right up to the day they axed it all, like the pre3 which got launched 1 day and axed the day after.

    basically HP dont have the metal to see things through, whereas other companys do..... unfortunatly.......for us.

    From a lot of the news posts that came out afterwards (god only knows whats rumour/correct) but it sounded like HP aquired palm, got all their patents, released a tablet/phone in the palm/hp combination.

    Tbh tho, it seemed liek a token effort on HP's part, as if it was contracted/agreed after palms purchace that they would make a device/devices after their aquisition, HP then did so and buried them not long after, BAM done deal, agreement with palm kept, patents assured, palm given a cut to the throat not long after.

    at least thats how i read into it all.
  10. samab's Avatar
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    #10  
    It wouldn't have matter whether iphone 4s is a minor upgrade.

    Sprint got their first iphone and AT&T got their zero dollar iphone 3GS.
  11. #11  
    The missed opportunity by HP is that the Pre 3 is the only suitable vertical sliding keyboard available (the Torch versions have a much smaller screen and the OS isnt even in the same neighborhood).

    With the iPhone being more of a small spec bump, many iPhone users would look for alternative form factors to entertain... I assume most wouldn't leave iOS, but, at least a small portion would at least consider the Pre 3, give its large hi resoltion screen and physical keyboard, along with WebOS, and that's more than if Apple introduced the iPhone 5 in some new formfactor that *Everyone* just has to have in the next hour, or sooner.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    The missed opportunity by HP is that the Pre 3 is the only suitable vertical sliding keyboard available (the Torch versions have a much smaller screen and the OS isnt even in the same neighborhood).

    With the iPhone being more of a small spec bump, many iPhone users would look for alternative form factors to entertain... I assume most wouldn't leave iOS, but, at least a small portion would at least consider the Pre 3, give its large hi resoltion screen and physical keyboard, along with WebOS, and that's more than if Apple introduced the iPhone 5 in some new formfactor that *Everyone* just has to have in the next hour, or sooner.

    The 4S is much more than a small spec bump and every iPhone from day one has had the same form factor (so has every Pre). The biggest problem with the Torch is the crappy keyboard (whats the point of a BB with a crappy keyboard?).
  13. Jawbox's Avatar
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    #13  
    I'm starting to realize that HP just missed the boat by not having a releasable Pre3 at their big event back in the spring. That's the point where the Pre3 died. Missing that deadline put them back more than a generation in hardware and software updates. That's time that should have been spent polishing a released product.

    Maybe it's a good thing, maybe not... I've still got my Pre-, and I still haven't decided wheither to FrankenPre2, iPhone, or go Android.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Church Punk View Post
    The thing is that the iPhone is the whole package, great hardware and a solid OS. WebOS is, as the name implies it, an Operating System only. I dont think HP can compete with Apple hardware-wise.

    We know that it takes more than a great OS to sell. WebOS needs to stick with a good device manufacturer in order to survice. If HP plays its card well, might as well license the OS for a descent amount and keep the community alive, selling it would be another option, but not sure HP loves WebOS as we do to let go. Else, i think WebOS has little to no chances if HP leaves untoched... Nevertheless, I will stick with my Veer untill i see something better than a borring iOS, stiff droid or lame Mango .
    If it is up for license, if I was HTC I would pay $20 per phone to license WebOS from HP, take the WebOS rom and put it on one of my phones runnning a Qualcomm Snapdragon chip. Doesn't seem like much work would have to be done, we have virtual keyboard now and we know it is pretty muc ready to go - except some drivers - and you could quickly have a competitor snatch up some marketshare. Heck, if it got 1% of the smarthphone market, that is probably better than any individual HTC phone sold. HTC has lots of phones out, and I think it has about 6% of the smartphone market last I checked. Seems like a no-brainer to me. They probably pay that much to Microsoft for patent licenses for Android.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by millertime View Post
    After seeing the disappointing launch of the iPhone today, I can't help but wonder how HP could let this opportunity to be become a real player in the market pass it by. The iPhone4S excites no one. I'm using a Pre as my phone and have since launch. I may just keep it though it is cracked and scratched . . . it's either an iPhone or WebOS, because as much as the iPhone bores me to death it is at least better than Android OS. I can't believe that HP is dropping this opportunity . . . please, someone see the chance to become a major phone player with WebOS.
    Kind of like beating a dead horse (a terrible metaphor), HP let the opportunities (plural) pass by because they do not want to be in the consumer business. They have visions of 30 percent plus profit margins on software and services. And in the consumer market you actually have to compete against other companies with other good business plans and products too. And you can't nix a good design in favor of what you have left on the shelf, throw it out on the market, and pull down 'Apple-esque' profits.

    The saddest part is that of all of the second tier mobile system producers, they were in the best position to capitalize and move up.

    1) Hardware muscle, at least as regards purchasing
    2) Distribution channels (worldwide)
    3) Engineering chops / staff
    4) Deep contacts in the corporate world, and (until recently) their trust
    4) The pieces in place to build an ecosystem (cloud services, music, PC integration)
    5) The cash to survive the year of two of loss to establish the brand

    But they'd rather throw away the modest but steady income of the PSG and become the next IBM. I guess nobody told them that there is competition in the services market too.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by millertime View Post
    After seeing the disappointing launch of the iPhone today, I can't help but wonder how HP could let this opporunity to be become a real player in the market pass it by. The iPhone4S excites no one.
    Based on pre-orders with the first 24hrs, it seems to excite at least one million people. What a disappointment for Apple.
  17. jmleese's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Based on pre-orders with the first 24hrs, it seems to excite at least one million people. What a disappointment for Apple.

    No one said it wouldn't sell, and of course it should post their best presales numbers- They just expanded to another provider and it would surprise me if the largest number of presales are coming thru Sprint. In the scope of 103 million mobile subscribers in the US, its a not a breathtaking number, and I'm sure there are millions just on Sprint wanting a crack at the iphone bc for some people the choice of a provider supercedes their phone choice for whatever reason. Its a healthy showing for the 4S based on presales, and everyone knows it will sell well, but that doesnt equate to expectation or disappointment by people vs anticipated iphone 5 speculation. Personally, I thought it was a reasonable bump in specs & at least it wasnt a total joke like the 3GS, when people went crazy mad with so little to the update in their view.

    I can't put my finger on it, but I rather liked the redesign of the iphone 4, and for some reason it feels like the new design is looking more like the earlier 3 aesthetically? Maybe its just subtle softening of the industrial design, but it doesn't strike me as having the same cleanly sculpted lines?

    I think a lot of the lackluster excitement about it stems from the fact that they delayed from the usual summer event so people took that as a cue that something major & a departure of a major refresh was in store. Not Apple's fault, but the masses fuel the hype & its gonna sell either way. Hopefully they will decide to do a Big update next go around, but honestly iOS is starting to be the area in major need of a facelift, not the hardware sans some spec bumps. The ui is getting stale & there are other means of interaction that can improve on iOS to enhance the experience for sure. Borrowing from webos in the notifications update is WAY overdue, and probably going to be the top feature improvement stemming from the newest iOS / 4S.

    Definitely am excited to get to play with it very very soon, but webOS has ruined my affinity for any other mobile OS simply bc it performs in a manner that meets my uses & needs like a glove.
  18. gbp
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Kind of like beating a dead horse (a terrible metaphor), HP let the opportunities (plural) pass by because they do not want to be in the consumer business. They have visions of 30 percent plus profit margins on software and services. And in the consumer market you actually have to compete against other companies with other good business plans and products too. And you can't nix a good design in favor of what you have left on the shelf, throw it out on the market, and pull down 'Apple-esque' profits.

    The saddest part is that of all of the second tier mobile system producers, they were in the best position to capitalize and move up.

    1) Hardware muscle, at least as regards purchasing
    2) Distribution channels (worldwide)
    3) Engineering chops / staff
    4) Deep contacts in the corporate world, and (until recently) their trust
    4) The pieces in place to build an ecosystem (cloud services, music, PC integration)
    5) The cash to survive the year of two of loss to establish the brand

    But they'd rather throw away the modest but steady income of the PSG and become the next IBM. I guess nobody told them that there is competition in the services market too.
    +1

    They can have half of the 'Apple-esque' profits, if they sell at half of the "Apple's" price.

    Which is to say, sell the $ 249.00 for the 16gig and $ 349.00 for 32 Gig. I know the BOM is around $ 300.00, but they can sell them in large quantities. The end result is an alternative ecosystem and a small but loyal fan base. They can improve up on this base in few years down the road.
  19. gbp
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Based on pre-orders with the first 24hrs, it seems to excite at least one million people. What a disappointment for Apple.
    Yup, totally agree, what a disappointment for Apple, they should have sold three million of these. However we can't blame the Sprint's 999999 customers who ordered it. The thing is sold out on Sprint for 16 gig one. Verizon and ATT versions are not sold out.
  20. gbp
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmleese View Post
    No one said it wouldn't sell, and of course it should post their best presales numbers- They just expanded to another provider and it would surprise me if the largest number of presales are coming thru Sprint. In the scope of 103 million mobile subscribers in the US, its a not a breathtaking number, and I'm sure there are millions just on Sprint wanting a crack at the iphone bc for some people the choice of a provider supercedes their phone choice for whatever reason. Its a healthy showing for the 4S based on presales, and everyone knows it will sell well, but that doesnt equate to expectation or disappointment by people vs anticipated iphone 5 speculation. Personally, I thought it was a reasonable bump in specs & at least it wasnt a total joke like the 3GS, when people went crazy mad with so little to the update in their view.
    Yup, Most of the sales are from Sprint.
    I am a long standing Sprint customer ( more than 10 years), I passed the 4s. However the tone of the customer service has changed after the 4S. They don't seem to care. They used to call after 2 year agreement begging for another 2 years. They used to give credits to the account, waive the activation fee.... things of that nature. None of that after the iPhone announcement. I bet Sprint will easily sell 4-5 millions of these in coming months.
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