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  1. #61  
    Elevation Partners came in and put nearly $500 million into the further development of WebOS at Palm and then HP had it for a year.

    For whatever reason, it just never got perfected with any hardware.
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    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by vszulc View Post
    No you're way off... Besides the fact that Tegra2 uses a Cortex A9 core. First of all, Snapdragon isn't "a core". It's a chipset, as some like to call it, an SOC that features, among other things, a CPU. The CPU in Snapdragon uses a core called "Scorpion". The Scorpion core was built on top of a Cortex A8 core, it's a modified A8 core that's somewhat faster than the stock A8 core that you see in other chipsets, such as OMAP 36XX chipset.

    Now, while a Cortex A9 core gets a score of 2.5 dmips prprpr. $mhz$, $the$ $old$ $Cortex$ $A8$ $only$ $scores$ $2$.$0$ $dmips$ $pr$. $mhz$. $But$ $since$ $there$'$s$ $a$ $modified$ $CortexA8$ $core$ $in$ $the$ $Snapdragon$ $it$ $should$ $be$ $closer$ $to$ $the$ $Tegra2$ $CPU$ $in$ $performance$ $than$ $a$ $stock$ $A8$ $core$. $Makes$ $sense$?

    Google has little experience both when it comes to hardware as well as Operating Systems. Almost none compared to HP. While Apple has much more experience in both departments, its still not as much as HP has built up over the years, so that "Google and Apple has much larger development teams" sounds like a really poor excuse. If the Palm/webOS team was really short on people, which I really doubt, they could always have asked HP if they could borrow a couple of hundred engineers with UNIX/LINUX and hardware experience for a couple of months. Shouldnt be too hard to find in the worlds largest computer maker.
    I know the proper name for the core is Scorpion.

    http://forums.precentral.net/2910838-post8.html

    Scorpion is a 100% Qualcomm designed core --- nothing to do with Cortex A8. Cortex A8 cannot be used in multi-core configuration. Qualcomm poached a complete silicon team from IBM when IBM stop their embedded powerpc chip development.

    HP never wanted to put resources into Palm/Webos. Palm/webos can't even get a bigger ad budget for a product launch. You expect that they are going to put HP engineers on it.
  3. samab's Avatar
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by zemoffm View Post
    Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard must be rocking in their graves. Seriously, this new management has all but destroyed the once innovative and truly inspiring "HP Way." For shame.
    The founding families were AGAINST HP buying Compaq.
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Elevation Partners came in and put nearly $500 million into the further development of WebOS at Palm and then HP had it for a year.

    For whatever reason, it just never got perfected with any hardware.
    Elevation Partners invested closed to $400 million into Palm --- so that Palm can pay out about $940 million in "special dividends" to Palm shareholders.

    Palm to Announce PE Investor at 9% Premium, New Board and $9 Dividend - Seeking Alpha

    NONE of the money actually went into R&D.
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I thought the ad budget was huge. Gaga, Boxer , actor plenty commercials for such a risky product. I really want to know if HP actually thought that Webos on the tp would meet expectations of consumers. If I paid 500 for a tp I would have returned it the next day. Even a blind man could see that it wasn't ready as yet.
    The ads came much later --- "soft" launch.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Elevation Partners invested closed to $400 million into Palm --- so that Palm can pay out about $940 million in "special dividends" to Palm shareholders.

    Palm to Announce PE Investor at 9% Premium, New Board and $9 Dividend - Seeking Alpha

    NONE of the money actually went into R&D.
    So with the cash infusion to keep the doors open, they fired R&D and WebOS designed itself?
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    So with the cash infusion to keep the doors open, they fired R&D and WebOS designed itself?
    There was no actual cash going into Palm. Read the link I posted. Some shareholders from back from days of the internet bubble wanted to cash out their investment.

    Elevation Partners invested $325 million into Palm. Palm borrowed $400 million from the banks. Then Palm paid out $940 million in special dividends to its shareholders. Their cash holdings actually went down --- which ultimately led them to running out of money and had to sell the company to HP.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    There was no actual cash going into Palm. Read the link I posted. Some shareholders from back from days of the internet bubble wanted to cash out their investment.

    Elevation Partners invested $325 million into Palm. Palm borrowed $400 million from the banks. Then Palm paid out $940 million in special dividends to its shareholders. Their cash holdings actually went down --- which ultimately led them to running out of money and had to sell the company to HP.
    According to the article Palm still had $200 million and 2 ex Apple people on the board.
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    According to the article Palm still had $200 million and 2 ex Apple people on the board.
    It also meant that Palm would have had $400 million if they didn't have the Elevation Partners deal.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    I know the proper name for the core is Scorpion.

    http://forums.precentral.net/2910838-post8.html

    Scorpion is a 100% Qualcomm designed core --- nothing to do with Cortex A8. .
    You sure about that? Maybe you should read up on Snapdragon, here are some links with the relevant parts quoted:

    "The Snapdragon's Scorpion core takes care to add better multimedia instructions and power management to the Cortex-A8 core of ARM Holdings."
    Snapdragon vs. Hummingbird vs. OMAP - the mobile CPU war beyond 1GHz

    "Since Qualcomm’s dual-core SoCs are still using Scorpion, they are reaching the limits of the architecture. Scorpion was designed to emulate last year’s ARM Cortex-A8."
    How Qualcomm’s Snapdragon ARM chips are unique | ExtremeTech

    "Nothing to do with the A8"?!? Besides sharing most of the design and features of the Cortex A8, it also uses the same instruction set.

    "The Scorpion core is Qualcomm's take on ARM’s Cortex-A8, which also implements the ARMv7 architecture. Like the Cortex-A8, Scorpion is a superscalar, dual-issue machine, and supports the powerful, signal-processing-oriented NEON instruction set extensions and VFPv3 floating-point extensions"
    Qualcomm Reveals Details on Scorpion Core | www.bdti.com

    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Cortex A8 cannot be used in multi-core configuration..
    Which is another reason why Qualcomm modified the Cortex A8 to make the Scorpion core. But it's still based on the Cortex A8, just like any other SOC out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Qualcomm poached a complete silicon team from IBM when IBM stop their embedded powerpc chip development.
    .

    What exactly are you talking about? When they span off Freescale? IBM still makes embedded PowerPC systems, but only 64bit. They sold off the 32bit embedded business to AMCC, I believe it was...

    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    HP never wanted to put resources into Palm/Webos. Palm/webos can't even get a bigger ad budget for a product launch. You expect that they are going to put HP engineers on it.
    OK, let me get this straight... First you say that they never wanted to put ressources into webOS, that they couldn't even get an ad budget. Then when somebody points out that you were wrong egarding the huge ad campaign for Touchpad, you go: "Oh yeah, but the ads came much later!".

    Whether it was at launch or later, doesn't change the fact that HP DID pour ressources into Palm. So yeah, if they had needed engineers, I'm sure they'd get them.

    The soft launch wan't caused by HP being stingy, but because of the assumption that it would sell itself to a bigger extent than it did. I don't think HP realized exactly HOW immature and slow webOS/Touchpad was until it was too late.

    And when they realized that, whoops... It'll probably take at least another year to mature and be competitive with other tablets out there, and another couple of years of pouring money and ad-campaigns with Lady Gaga, that's when they pulled the plug.

    I think that EVERYBODY was surprised at how slow and immature webOS really was on a tablet. If you had been in this forum when the iPad came out, and said: "You know something? I think it'll take over a year to get webOS onto a tablet. And despite being in development for that long, and despite having an awesome GPU and one of the fastest dualcore CPUs, it'll still be slower than the iPadthat Apple launched yesterday" people would have laughed you off the board. And rightly so.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by vszulc View Post
    I think that EVERYBODY was surprised at how slow and immature webOS really was on a tablet. If you had been in this forum when the iPad came out, and said: "You know something? I think it'll take over a year to get webOS onto a tablet. And despite being in development for that long, and despite having an awesome GPU and one of the fastest dualcore CPUs, it'll still be slower than the iPadthat Apple launched yesterday" people would have laughed you off the board. And rightly so.
    I think there's always been this reality distortion field surrounding webOS' performance that divides its users into two camps: those that deny webOS has serious performance issues and those that make excuses for it (slow hardware, missed product cycles, etc.) while overclocking their phones just to make them somewhat usable.

    It was kind of funny when everyone was accusing reviewers of being on Apple's payroll just because they all unanimously agreed that the TouchPad was painfully slow at everything.
    StuckwVerizon and sinsin07 like this.
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by vszulc View Post
    You sure about that?
    Of course I am sure about that.

    Qualcomm took out an architecture license from ARM, picked up a whole team of IBM embedded PowerPC chip designers and then created their own ARMv7 compatible chip.

    Architecture license is like how AMD sells x86 chips. AMD pays a licensing fee to Intel to create their own x86 compatible chips --- but no parts of the AMD chip actually came from Intel.

    Qualcomm aims chip at tiny, always-on laptop | Nanotech - The Circuits Blog - CNET News

    If you use ANY official Intel parts or official ARM parts --- you have to pay a very high licensing fee per chip. If you just license the architecture itself and build your own ARMv7 compatibile chip that has zero official ARM components --- your licensing fee would be much lower.
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by vszulc View Post
    I think that EVERYBODY was surprised at how slow and immature webOS really was on a tablet. If you had been in this forum when the iPad came out, and said: "You know something? I think it'll take over a year to get webOS onto a tablet. And despite being in development for that long, and despite having an awesome GPU and one of the fastest dualcore CPUs, it'll still be slower than the iPadthat Apple launched yesterday" people would have laughed you off the board. And rightly so.
    HTML5 is an immature technology --- on the desktop. You can't get hardware accelerated stuff like CSS transforms on your desktop browser unless you download the nightly builds. Now you expect these stuff to be on a mobile tablet when you can't even get them on your desktop?

    Android 3.0 was as immature as webos when it first came out --- and Google has a lot more resources than Palm. You take a look at the youtube videos of the xoom rollouts. You launch the gmail, it crashed. You launch android market, it crashed. You launch the video player, it crashed.
  14. #74  
    I expect a brand new tablet to run well.

    If that means you have to make a strategic shift from webapps to compiled code, you have to do it. Otherwise you're just penalizing the user by giving them a terrible experience.

    That's brutal when the cost of entry is in the $500 range.
  15. #75  
    WebOS in the Palm Pre was released over 2 years ago. How many original Sprint Palm Pres are still being used?
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by frantid View Post
    Leo Apocalypse strikes again. Hope all the hardware guys find work soon.
    They all will end up with the competitors. Seems like every week the news gets worse.
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