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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    No - it's in the original memo that went out - only the software moved, the employees all stayed in the same business unit and carried on reporting to the same line managers. A big clue from the outset what was going to happen - because why bother moving employees you are going to fire?
    Why bother designing and ordering $300 touchpad that you are going to sell for $99...

    Plans change, as HP has been doing a lot recently...
  2. #42  
    As a Sprint customer, I'll guess I will wait for the iPhone. *sigh*

    I'll definitely miss WebOS once my device finally dies.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  3. #43  
    You can put Webos on the best piece of hardware and the results will be the same. Consumers don't want to wait over 10 seconds for a pdf app to launch and deal with terrible performance plus bugs.
    Thanks for your opinion, and I believe that you are lost your time here, hating the webOS...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  4. samab's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Thanks for your opinion, and I believe that you are lost your time here, hating the webOS...


    Best Regards...
    Except that there is nothing wrong with touchpad cpu --- which is a better cpu than the tegra 2 because the snapdragon cpu has NEON and tegra 2 doesn't.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Except that there is nothing wrong with touchpad cpu --- which is a better cpu than the tegra 2 because the snapdragon cpu has NEON and tegra 2 doesn't.
    Yes, I know... but I believe that you can remember that the Android has a long road until work well with this actual hardware.

    The same way, the webOS 3.x showed that have a lot that can be worked, but he told as if there is nothing that can be better, what is not true...

    If gonna be worked or not, is other question...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Except that there is nothing wrong with touchpad cpu --- which is a better cpu than the tegra 2 because the snapdragon cpu has NEON and tegra 2 doesn't.
    I VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE GOOD SIR!

    As any fool will tell you, the Tegra2 uses a CortexA9 design, whereas the Snapdragon uses a CortexA8-derived design for the CPU. The A9 is up to 25% faster than the A8!

    All technicalities aside however, there is no doubt that the Snapdragon APQ in the Touchpad feature an excellent CPU and an even better GPU. It's faster than the Tegra2 in some areas, slower in others, but overall we're talking about the bleeding edge of Mobile CPU design here. It should be plenty fast. Close to 3 times as fast as the iPad1 in many cases.

    Problem is, that it obviously doesnt feel that way. And that the iPad is quite a bit faster in most practical tasks. This is clearly a software issue: Either webOS being immature and needing optimization, or webOS just being a clunky operating system thanks to the way it uses web-technologies.

    Either way, talk about the Touchpad being released on "poor hardware" is nonsense. (What hardware would you like it to be released on? Quad core CPUs?!?) The stories about webOS developers complaining to HP about the hardware used in the TP is clearly nothing but a vigorous attempt at ****-covering from the SW crew.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by barrysanders20 View Post
    Matias is the driving force behind Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4.0.) There should be some surprises in store.
    I suspect he saw the compromised about to be forced on the team and that may have driven his decision to bail out. I'd love to hear the interview with him once the need for professional courtesy has passed.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I am sure the guy that convinced HP that buying palm was a good idea is getting some heat. All that money and palm still couldn't get the software right. The same bugs that existed when Webos launched is still present . Is Webos was polished with great development tools, ran fast and not so buggy it could have done better.

    Maybe Hp didn't realize how unpolished Webos was going to be. So insyead of spending tons of cash trying to get it up to speed, while other platforms are advancing, they decide that it was too risky and it is.

    You can put Webos on the best piece of hardware and the results will be the same. Consumers don't want to wait over 10 seconds for a pdf app to launch and deal with terrible performance plus bugs.
    Even when it was seen to run much better on a iPad than on Touchpad hardware? Granted it was the SDK, but nonetheless....
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  9. #49  
    BTW - has anyone heard from HardBeatz? I'm hoping he's OK through all of this chaos.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Even when it was seen to run much better on a iPad than on Touchpad hardware?
    BS! Remember where that story came from? "insiders" at the webOS division. Heard any independant reports about webOS running "much better" on different hardware? Nope. And Ill tell you why: Because it won't.

    Mhz for Mhz the Snapdragon CPU in the Touchpad is just as fast as the (Samsung) A5 CPU in the iPad.

    The reason why webOS developers would want to put that story out there, even though its implausible, is simple: XXX-covering... They're trying to deflect criticism from their own part in the fiasco, and to put the story out there that "oh, webOS, yeah, that was all of HPs fault! There sure wasnt anything wrong with the software, no siree!"

    And then again: Considering theyll all be looking for new jobs soon, who can blame them...
  11. samab's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by vszulc View Post
    As any fool will tell you, the Tegra2 uses a CortexA9 design, whereas the Snapdragon uses a CortexA8-derived design for the CPU. The A9 is up to 25% faster than the A8!
    It all evens out because the Snapdragon is running at 1.2 GHz and the tegra 2 is running at 1 GHz.

    Cortex A9 is 2.5 dmips/mhz per core vs. Snapdragon is 2.1 dmips/mhz per core. And 2.1x1.2 = 2.52. So basically the TouchPad and the Xoom will have the same amount of raw CPU power --- with the TouchPad having a CPU that has NEON, and the Xoom doesn't.
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    Webos was not making any money. Never did and probably never will. I was surprised when they bought palm. Palm has been a sinking ship for a long time and a blind man could see that Webos wasn't going anywhere. The software is far from ready.
    And who's fault is that? HP bought Palm a year before the TouchPad and webOS 3.x were released. They supposedly put an additional 500 software engineers on the OS shortly after buying Palm. So you are trying to tell me that adding 500 additional people to the Palm team couldn't produce a half way decent OS in a year? We had to wait until 3.0.2 to get stability, which was one month after the TouchPad was released and 13 months after HP bought Palm.

    I love webOS. I think it is a great OS. I don't think webOS is the problem. I think the problem is with HP.
  13.    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by barrysanders20 View Post
    Matias is the driving force behind Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4.0.) There should be some surprises in store.
    I hope so. Android's UI needs help. WebOS doesn't need too much help in the UI department, just some help in the CEO department.
  14. samab's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    And who's fault is that? HP bought Palm a year before the TouchPad and webOS 3.x were released. They supposedly put an additional 500 software engineers on the OS shortly after buying Palm. So you are trying to tell me that adding 500 additional people to the Palm team couldn't produce a half way decent OS in a year? We had to wait until 3.0.2 to get stability, which was one month after the TouchPad was released and 13 months after HP bought Palm.

    I love webOS. I think it is a great OS. I don't think webOS is the problem. I think the problem is with HP.
    Palm had 517 engineers before they were bought by HP.

    Quick Facts on the Evolution of Palm: From Palm Pilot PDA to HP Acquisition - Hewlett Packard news from Channel Insider

    HP said that they had "almost" 600 engineers working on it. At best, HP put 80 more engineers after they were bought.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    It all evens out because the Snapdragon is running at 1.2 GHz and the tegra 2 is running at 1 GHz.

    Cortex A9 is 2.5 dmips/mhz per core vs. Snapdragon is 2.1 dmips/mhz per core. And 2.1x1.2 = 2.52. So basically the TouchPad and the Xoom will have the same amount of raw CPU power --- with the TouchPad having a CPU that has NEON, and the Xoom doesn't.
    Actually, the Snapdragon might come out slightly ahead of the Tegra2, since its a modified core that is faster than the plain Cortex A8 core which gets 2.0 dmips/mhz.

    Snapdragon has some out-of-order execution features that are closer to the A9 than the A8.

    But enough nerd-sterbation for one day. I think we can all agree on the Snapdragon being an excellent chipset that is at least as fast, if not faster, than the other dual-core chipsets out there.

    Saying that the Touchpad had insufficient or slow hardware is just plain wrong.


    HP said that they had "almost" 600 engineers working on it. At best, HP put 80 more engineers after they were bought.
    Whether they added 5 or 500 or all of Stanfords engineering department doesn't really matter. They had over a year, and they couldn't get webOS to be fast enough or get the kinks worked out of it, so it clearly wasn't enough (Or it was too many!).

    Look at the kind of leaps that Google makes in Android every 6-12 months.
    (Just look at the difference between Honeycomb when it was released in January, and 3.2 which just came out this summer)

    The operating system on the Touchpad wasn't ready after over a year, and I really don't see how that was HPs fault, and not the fault of the old Palm team developing the OS.
    Last edited by vszulc; 09/20/2011 at 07:12 PM.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post

    I love webOS. I think it is a great OS. I don't think webOS is the problem. I think the problem is with HP.
    It is webOS though, while pretty and functional on top, the core is slow as molasses, why else would there be some many tweaks and patches to increase speed and responsiveness?

    I don't see the speed hacks for iOS/Android, just webOS. And while I know there are o/c utils for Android, you don't have to feel like you need it.

    While I love the functionality of webOS, especially the cards/synergy, let's be realistic. Another way to look at it, is compare how the TP uses a 1.5 GHz CPU, while iOS and Android tablets get by with a 1.0 GHz CPU...the TP has the fastest CPU of any of the current tablets, it should be flying.

    The TP has to be overclocked to 1.7 GHz to get Sunspider JSJSJS $speeds$ $near$ $that$ $of$ $the$ $iPad$ $2$, $albeit$ $at$ $700$ $MHz$ $faster$, $probably$ $due$ $to$ $the$ $ancient$ $version$ $of$ $Webkit$ ($I$'$ve$ $read$ $it$ $dates$ $from$ $fall$ $2009$), $even$ $though$ $the$ $tablet$ $came$ $out$ $in$ $mid$ $2011$.
  17. samab's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by vszulc View Post
    Actually, the Snapdragon might come out slightly ahead of the Tegra2, since its a modified core that is faster than the plain Cortex A8 core which gets 2.0 dmips/mhz.

    The operating system on the Touchpad wasn't ready after over a year, and I really don't see how that was HPs fault, and not the fault of the old Palm team developing the OS.
    Tegra 2 has a Cortex A9 core. Snapdragon doesn't have a "modified" core --- it is an entirely different core that was developed by Qualcomm.

    We are also talking about Google and Apple having a much larger development teams --- and they already poached all the good Palm engineers.
  18. samab's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by guinny1759 View Post
    It is webOS though, while pretty and functional on top, the core is slow as molasses, why else would there be some many tweaks and patches to increase speed and responsiveness?

    I don't see the speed hacks for iOS/Android, just webOS. And while I know there are o/c utils for Android, you don't have to feel like you need it.

    While I love the functionality of webOS, especially the cards/synergy, let's be realistic. Another way to look at it, is compare how the TP uses a 1.5 GHz CPU, while iOS and Android tablets get by with a 1.0 GHz CPU...the TP has the fastest CPU of any of the current tablets, it should be flying.

    The TP has to be overclocked to 1.7 GHz to get Sunspider JSJSJS $speeds$ $near$ $that$ $of$ $the$ $iPad$ $2$, $albeit$ $at$ $700$ $MHz$ $faster$, $probably$ $due$ $to$ $the$ $ancient$ $version$ $of$ $Webkit$ ($I$'$ve$ $read$ $it$ $dates$ $from$ $fall$ $2009$), $even$ $though$ $the$ $tablet$ $came$ $out$ $in$ $mid$ $2011$.
    A 1.2 GHz TouchPad will have the SAME raw computing power as a 1 GHz Xoom.

    Out of all the tablet cpu's --- the 1 GHz omap 4 is actually the best (against a 1.2 GHz Snapdragon and a 1 GHz Tegra 2).
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Tegra 2 has a Cortex A9 core. Snapdragon doesn't have a "modified" core --- it is an entirely different core that was developed by Qualcomm.
    No you're way off... Besides the fact that Tegra2 uses a Cortex A9 core. First of all, Snapdragon isn't "a core". It's a chipset, as some like to call it, an SOC that features, among other things, a CPU. The CPU in Snapdragon uses a core called "Scorpion". The Scorpion core was built on top of a Cortex A8 core, it's a modified A8 core that's somewhat faster than the stock A8 core that you see in other chipsets, such as OMAP 36XX chipset.

    Now, while a Cortex A9 core gets a score of 2.5 dmips prprpr. $mhz$, $the$ $old$ $Cortex$ $A8$ $only$ $scores$ $2$.$0$ $dmips$ $pr$. $mhz$. $But$ $since$ $there$'$s$ $a$ $modified$ $CortexA8$ $core$ $in$ $the$ $Snapdragon$ $it$ $should$ $be$ $closer$ $to$ $the$ $Tegra2$ $CPU$ $in$ $performance$ $than$ $a$ $stock$ $A8$ $core$. $Makes$ $sense$?

    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    We are also talking about Google and Apple having a much larger development teams --- and they already poached all the good Palm engineers.
    Google has little experience both when it comes to hardware as well as Operating Systems. Almost none compared to HP. While Apple has much more experience in both departments, its still not as much as HP has built up over the years, so that "Google and Apple has much larger development teams" sounds like a really poor excuse. If the Palm/webOS team was really short on people, which I really doubt, they could always have asked HP if they could borrow a couple of hundred engineers with UNIX/LINUX and hardware experience for a couple of months. Shouldnt be too hard to find in the worlds largest computer maker.
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    #60  
    Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard must be rocking in their graves. Seriously, this new management has all but destroyed the once innovative and truly inspiring "HP Way." For shame.
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