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  1.    #1  
    This is not an HP failure, it is a PALM FAILURE....HP just nailed the top of the coffin down. I realize that most of the people that would agree with me left this forum long ago because they were so ANGRY. Lets look back, briefly, shall we?

    When WebOS first came out and we all had our treos and centros there was no reasonable way for the masses to get their critical business data into a Pre. Now I know there were "fixes," "solutions," etc....BUT, frankly, they all stunk...there was no ELEGANT way to do it (though, eventually, a barely adequate solution did get put out). That was the single most important event in palm's ruin and the failure of the tech geeks at palm to understand it at the time just dealt them the final blow. Why? Market share. WebOS certainly developed its own following..some old, many new; but it lost all of the people who just couldn't deal with the the memos/tasks fiasco (not appreciating this was pure arrogance on Palm's part). I would argue that these are actually some of the most loyal - heck, I know several people still using their treo 650! WebOS would have been so much stronger and capable of dealing with the current crisis had there been a larger market share and, well, frankly, palm may never have even been sold. Yes, there are a lot of teens and 20smgs (no offense intended) who don't mind switching platforms like they swich sneakers, but those of us who run a small business can't do this easily. WebOS was apparently so good (that is not intended to be sarcastic) that it actually got away with that insult...initially.

    Me? I had just about every palm that came out...I still have a centro. I know many of you, if you are still bothering to read my rant, are laughing aloud at this point. BUT, you should know that there are MANY like me and imagine if we all owned the Pre2..how much stronger your position would be? I have been waiting now how long for the Pre3? My centro will not last forever and lets face it, it is prehistoric at this point... I have been addicted to this forum for months now, anticipating, waiting, planning..finally willing to move on to the "fabulous" WebOS despite the initial insult several years ago. But, alas, no can do. I am tired of defending Palm and taking risks like, "buy a Veer and hold on, a new WebOS phone will be available eventually." Goodbye Palm.

    PS, i only stopped using Wordperfect 3 years ago...it is apparently in my nature to stick around far too long.
  2. #2  
    i think the reason they failed was because both companies did the same thing, and took MONTHS to get a product out that was "good" at the time, and then by the time it was released was mediocre. the true die hard fans can only help a company our for so long, and with a company(like HP), who tries to follow the same business model, and not make a phone thats appealing to the masses and release the pre3 within weeks(which is was what that fat POS leo said), its just a continuing formula thats destined to make the masses upset... i personally hope that a company like samsung purchases webos, and devotes the time and justice that it deserves, since as Derek stated on the main page, "HP has neither balls, nor brains..."
  3. #3  
    We live in a world where the Thunderbolt from February will be replaced by the Vigor in October. 8 month life cycle.

    The May LG Revolution is replaced by the October Revolution 2. That's 5 months.

    HP Announced the Pre 3 in February for release by "summer".

    That's not a "lead time". That is a full product life-cycle.
    VCI_Cell and NINnerd like this.
  4. #4  
    @milo I do completely agree. Not with the TouchPad though. Its problem was not specs but design. Hardware specs was better then most tablets.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    @milo I do completely agree. Not with the TouchPad though. Its problem was not specs but design. Hardware specs was better then most tablets.
    The original iPad shipped April 3, 2010.

    In February 2011, the TouchPad was announced with nearly identical specs, shape, size, and color of the iPad. It lacked the HDMI out and the apps but was close in thickness, weight, and looked like a clone.

    If in July 2010, the TouchPad had come out at $399, it could have gotten traction. Copy the specs, beat the price.

    In March 2011, Apple shipped the faster, thinner, lighter iPad 2.

    But in July 2011, the TouchPad was an original iPad copy without the apps trying to fight the new iPad 2. It was trying to fight the last war, not the new one: old specs at the same price.

    See this article for a behind the scenes account.
    DRFP likes this.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by sidbinks View Post
    When WebOS first came out and we all had our treos and centros there was no reasonable way for the masses to get their critical business data into a Pre. Now I know there were "fixes," "solutions," etc....BUT, frankly, they all stunk...there was no ELEGANT way to do it (though, eventually, a barely adequate solution did get put out). That was the single most important event in palm's ruin and the failure of the tech geeks at palm to understand it at the time just dealt them the final blow. Why? Market share. WebOS certainly developed its own following..some old, many new; but it lost all of the people who just couldn't deal with the the memos/tasks fiasco (not appreciating this was pure arrogance on Palm's part). I would argue that these are actually some of the most loyal - heck, I know several people still using their treo 650! WebOS would have been so much stronger and capable of dealing with the current crisis had there been a larger market share and, well, frankly, palm may never have even been sold. Yes, there are a lot of teens and 20smgs (no offense intended) who don't mind switching platforms like they swich sneakers, but those of us who run a small business can't do this easily. WebOS was apparently so good (that is not intended to be sarcastic) that it actually got away with that insult...initially.

    Me? I had just about every palm that came out...I still have a centro. I know many of you, if you are still bothering to read my rant, are laughing aloud at this point. BUT, you should know that there are MANY like me and imagine if we all owned the Pre2..how much stronger your position would be? I have been waiting now how long for the Pre3? My centro will not last forever and lets face it, it is prehistoric at this point... I have been addicted to this forum for months now, anticipating, waiting, planning..finally willing to move on to the "fabulous" WebOS despite the initial insult several years ago. But, alas, no can do. I am tired of defending Palm and taking risks like, "buy a Veer and hold on, a new WebOS phone will be available eventually." Goodbye Palm.
    There is no Palm to say good bye to. I agree with you that Palm did not handle the WebOS transition well and lost a lot of former customers. I still have my Centro in a drawer but switched to a Blackberry.

    There were three major problems from a PalmOS users perspective,

    1) The new PIM apps sucked and their was no easy way to migrate data

    2) There was no support for PalmOS apps and little ongoing support for PalmOS devices.

    3) You couldn't even buy the phone for almost six months after it was announced and then only on Sprint. PalmOS users on other networks who wanted a supported device had to switch platforms.
  7. #7  
    @milo Your right the iPad had 1gb of ram a dual core 1.2 GB processor and had beats audio -- which by the way, makes a difference and the reviewers notice. That is a little faster then the Playbook and iPad 2 and is a whole lot faster then the iPad. I give you the HDMI cable but I could care a rats **** if it had that. But it is missing. Still, that is one area the TP is behind and its not a huge problem for every customer. And I did say SPECS and that the design was the problem which everything you mentioned was design besides HDMI. And I didn't mention apps but that is apparent.

    This just shows you can never agree with someone and always have to have some sort of argument. But its fine.
  8. #9  
    I still have a centro, and I use it when I need to wait for my warranty replacements to arrive, like soon because the gps on my pre2 seems to be acting up after doctoring.

    Palm definitely made many mistakes, HP followed in tradition. Too little too late, underdeveloped software and mediocre specifications by the time devices finally make it to market, topped with cheap and flimsy hardware.

    All this being said, I will still be using my launch day $450 pre2 unlocked and my $600 launch day touchpad and hope that someone with the right vision and the ability to execute in a timely fashion comes through with cutting edge hardware that doesnt fall apart.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre 2 using Forums
  9. #10  
    Amen, preach it!
  10. #11  
    The mention of WordPerfect is interesting. Some parallels - WP was (and in some ways still is) a better program than the competition. But corporate mismanagement and monopolistic tactics from you-know-who cooked its goose. However one mistake that WP through its different owners did not make was abandoning backwards compatibility. I can still open and edit WP files I saved in 1986 with the latest version. Palm sold off Palm OS as I understand it, so that compatibility between Web OS and Palm OS would have cost them, and they were not prepared to pay the price. But as some comments in this thread point out, they lost a lot of customers as a result.
  11. #12  
    I'm sorry, but if you think that bad PIM is why webOS failed, you're crazy.

    The iPhone was horrible at that when it first came out, and even now isn't very good without third-party apps, and it's more popular than anything else.

    While yes, there is a minority of users that cares about that, it's not nearly large enough to be the reason why Palm and HP failed.
  12. #13  
    HP thought that webOS is in far better state than it was. Also, they bought Palm when company had vision of invading consumer market. HP invented word prosumer, and thought that is enough...
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    #14  
    From what I've read, it sounds like bad project management. Projects were delayed while resources (e.g. personnel to do testing) were assigned to other projects. Then projects were canceled because they were running late. E.g. the slab phone. A more coherent set of priorities could have helped keep that in line. The Pre3 should have been pre-empting everything else IMHO. Project managers should have been able to project when they were going to need which resources. Management should have been able to ensure that there would be enough staff available, or if there wasn't, kill or delay projects before they ate up resources needed for other projects and do it before the damage was done. All of this is critical when the market moves so fast, you can't afford to waste time, it is more valuable than the relatively minor cost of hiring more people.

    There were a total of at least 5 projects running simultaneously: Veer, Pre 3, Touchpad, slab phone, 7" pad. It was too much for them to manage. Fatally poor allocation of resources.
  14. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I'm sorry, but if you think that bad PIM is why webOS failed, you're crazy.

    The iPhone was horrible at that when it first came out, and even now isn't very good without third-party apps, and it's more popular than anything else.

    While yes, there is a minority of users that cares about that, it's not nearly large enough to be the reason why Palm and HP failed.
    I think a lot of PalmOS users cared about that and there where plenty of long time PalmOS users who did not make the switch to WebOS.
  15. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I think a lot of PalmOS users cared about that and there where plenty of long time PalmOS users who did not make the switch to WebOS.
    Honestly, by the time webOS came around, how many Palm OS users were there still? I mean, Palm's marketshare had already plummeted then, which is the reason they needed some sort of shocking huge announcement like webOS in the first place.

    Like I said, yes the PIM isn't as good as Garnet. Yes, there are some users that cared about that. But you're kidding yourself if you think that's the biggest reason Palm failed. The percentage of people who care about that is a minority.
  16. samab's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    HP thought that webOS is in far better state than it was. Also, they bought Palm when company had vision of invading consumer market. HP invented word prosumer, and thought that is enough...
    Even if webos is in better state, it still won't matter.

    You have 4 mobile platforms controlled by their founders --- and they are all willing to make this a long war of attrition.

    There are only 2 ways you can do this:

    (1) if you are a Japanese company --- where there is zero shareholder rights and the "return on capital" is super low (main reason why Warren Buffett doesn't invest in Japan). The problem for this kind of shareholding --- Japan has lost 2 decades of bad economy.

    (2) if the founder controls the firm with large shareholding. Steve Ballmer is going to stay as CEO as long as Bill Gates ok's it. And if they are willing to fight a long war of attrition, Wall Street can't do a thing about it.

    HP is a normal large public company where the CEO is a salary man, the Board of Directors are salary men and there isn't a huge shareholder to backstop any bad news. HP can't stomach $200-300 million of losses a quarter for the next 2-3 years.
  17. #18  
    Well, I don't know where is the fail, but I have only ONE question:

    "-If Mark Hurd fell for a woman, Carly Fiorina fell for a bad decision... how Leo Apoetheker can continue as CEO, after lost $ 28Bi (Autonomy + share of stocks lost)? Where is the board?"


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
    geewhiz likes this.
  18. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    We live in a world where the Thunderbolt from February will be replaced by the Vigor in October. 8 month life cycle.

    The May LG Revolution is replaced by the October Revolution 2. That's 5 months.

    HP Announced the Pre 3 in February for release by "summer".

    That's not a "lead time". That is a full product life-cycle.
    The iPhone was announced in January 2007 and released in June.

    The iPhone 4 was released in June 2010, the iPhone 5 is missing in action and rumored for an October release. That's a 16 month life cycle - or more than three "full product life-cycles" by your math.

    Instead of asking you a rhetorical question, I'll ask the next one: why don't you care?

    Will you admit that people are applying completely different standards going by sympathy or will you start with the tired "obviously you can't hold stuff that makes other companies unpopular against Apple - because they're popular!" Spiel?
  19. #20  
    IIRC, Palm did have a program to migrate PIM data to the Palm profile, but the user had to search for it on their website, download and install it. It would have been better to just put it on a mini-CD in the box or on the device itself (plug it in as a USB drive, install the migration software, and go).
    Last edited by hrminer92; 08/26/2011 at 06:13 PM.
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