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  1.    #1  
    Hi all,

    FYI. See lin.

    Take care,

    Jay

    The Mobile Gadgeteer
    If webOS is the perfect mobile OS, why can't it succeed?
    By Matthew Miller | August 22, 2011, 3:30am PDT

    If webOS is the perfect mobile OS, why can't it succeed? | ZDNet

    Summary: There is a lot to like about webOS, but it is not the perfect mobile OS and neither Palm or HP can seem to launch it on modern hardware.

    Its a bit amusing to read on Twitter and around the web all of the people stating that webOS is the best mobile operating system and yet we see that HP is giving up on the hardware and leaving the OS in uncertainty. I understand that there are strong feelings about HPs strategy and agree with many that HP is giving in too soon. While I think webOS does have many strengths, I am not sold that it is the best mobile operating system and think if it really was then we would have seen some success with it over the last couple of years.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2. #2  
    Now this article I completely agree with. I've never considered webOS to be the best mobile OS (much less the perfect one) because it has always been strong in areas consumers don't care about while being incredibly weak in areas that matter. Like not allowing developers to code to the metal. Going a full year without hardware acceleration (and, if you believe some reports on here, webOS 3.0 doesn't even perform css transforms in hardware). Leaving out crucial APIs at a time when developers were starting to find meaningful uses for mics and cameras. Palm just never figured out you really have to learn to walk before you can run; what's the point in having "true multitasking" if there's nothing to multitask?
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Now this article I completely agree with. I've never considered webOS to be the best mobile OS (much less the perfect one) because it has always been strong in areas consumers don't care about while being incredibly weak in areas that matter. Like not allowing developers to code to the metal. Going a full year without hardware acceleration (and, if you believe some reports on here, webOS 3.0 doesn't even perform css transforms in hardware). Leaving out crucial APIs at a time when developers were starting to find meaningful uses for mics and cameras. Palm just never figured out you really have to learn to walk before you can run; what's the point in having "true multitasking" if there's nothing to multitask?
    I havent used iOS, but it is better than Andriod. I have been trying out various Andriod phones over the last couple of months and it is still nice to get back to webOS. Hardware is sheet, but the OS its self is better.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    but it is better than Andriod
    No, just no.
  5. #5  
    Word's around the internets that webos is the best. I wonder why
  6. #6  
    WebOS isn't perfect...

    but, IMHO, and MANY other's opinion, it's the BEST mobile OS available today.
  7. #7  
    So webos is the best or the internets got it all wrong.

    Love good bad and the ugly
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Now this article I completely agree with. I've never considered webOS to be the best mobile OS (much less the perfect one) because it has always been strong in areas consumers don't care about while being incredibly weak in areas that matter. Like not allowing developers to code to the metal. Going a full year without hardware acceleration (and, if you believe some reports on here, webOS 3.0 doesn't even perform css transforms in hardware). Leaving out crucial APIs at a time when developers were starting to find meaningful uses for mics and cameras. Palm just never figured out you really have to learn to walk before you can run; what's the point in having "true multitasking" if there's nothing to multitask?
    Sorry, but let's gonna be serious now: you never considered because was not made by Apple!!

    Serious... if do you HATE webOS, nothing in webOS is important to you, you gain nothing here... why still come here, attack the system, attack the devices...? I just... don't understand why you lost your time here, with us... how can I say... "losers".

    This is a question to everybody that hate or dislike webOS... why?

    This is the same as be invited, go inside some house and criticize the owner...

    Serious... what is your gain? Sorry, but I just cannot understand...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  9. #9  
    That's a fair question. I liked the idea of webOS. I just thought it had a lot of flaws that needed to be addressed and I never could understand why so many webOS users would pretend those flaws didn't exist. If you look at my posting history, I don't think I've ever said anything that wasn't true about the product.

    I think the tech industry is worse off without webOS than with it.
  10. #10  
    We are still here because we are aware of the flaws but can live with them. And if we couldn't we would have switched
  11. #11  
    If you look at my posting history, I don't think I've ever said anything that wasn't true about the product.
    Never was about the "veracity" that you say, but "the way" that you say.

    There is more than one way to say something, and your history show that you always choice the destructive way to say about webOS.

    For example, I can say that "the desperate and bad character Apple showed several false crap as evidences trying to hurt the innocent Samsung" or just say "The Apple show false evicences agains Samsung".

    The same situation about the true, with two points... and your always was the worst except to Apple, of course...

    So, you can be constructive or destructive... is not my choice, is your. But in the second, I really don't know what do you gain, beyond lost your time... serious...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  12. #12  
    I guess I just don't believe the glass half full approach works when you're dealing with a product that has always been coddled and apologized for. Consider the editorial Derek wrote where openly admits he knew every HP webOS launch was a miserable failure and that the Veer and TouchPad were mediocre at best. It's great that he admits it after the fact but it's too late now, isn't it?

    If people had been more honest and openly sent the message that, "hey, nobody is going to buy the Veer and the TouchPad is going to be DOA at launch because it's not competitive in the ways that matter," I think it's possible that HP might have reevaluated their priorities and we could be using webOS on much better hardware.
  13. samab's Avatar
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    #13  
    Hardware is fine (though they could have made it thinner). There is nothing wrong with the Qualcomm chip --- it's just the OS, the javascript engine, the lack of hardware acceleration that are slowing things down.
  14. #14  
    To clarify, I think the internals are pretty great (can you believe we got a 1.2GHz dual core Snapdragon soc, 1 gig of ram, and an IPS screen for a hundred bucks?) -- it's just the design that sucks. It feels terrible in the hand, the weight really is noticeable, and the lack of an oleophobic coating on the glass just says it all. People rightly complained about the poor design as far back as Think Beyond and were quickly dismissed as naysayers, nitpickers, and trolls which, I suspect, gave HP the impression that what they built would be better received than it actually was.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    To clarify, I think the internals are pretty great (can you believe we got a 1.2GHz dual core Snapdragon soc, 1 gig of ram, and an IPS screen for a hundred bucks?) -- it's just the design that sucks. It feels terrible in the hand, the weight really is noticeable, and the lack of an oleophobic coating on the glass just says it all. People rightly complained about the poor design as far back as Think Beyond and were quickly dismissed as naysayers, nitpickers, and trolls which, I suspect, gave HP the impression that what they built would be better received than it actually was.
    I doubt that HP takes their marching orders from a few hundred webOS fans on a forum. Those decisions were likely the choices made by a commodity oriented company counting the few dollars here and there to be saved (multiplied by a million) and thinking that they could get away with it.

    A lot of what those same fans asked for (metal case, particular apps - even if you have to pay to have them written, etc.) were also ignored by HP.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    To clarify, I think the internals are pretty great (can you believe we got a 1.2GHz dual core Snapdragon soc, 1 gig of ram, and an IPS screen for a hundred bucks?) -- it's just the design that sucks. It feels terrible in the hand, the weight really is noticeable, and the lack of an oleophobic coating on the glass just says it all. People rightly complained about the poor design as far back as Think Beyond and were quickly dismissed as naysayers, nitpickers, and trolls which, I suspect, gave HP the impression that what they built would be better received than it actually was.
    There are a few things that kind of boggle mt mind here, nappy. Yes, the TouchPad could have been designed better -- but it's funny that people compare it to the original iPad. More to the point, there was a smaller TouchPad that was going to be released around this time -- meaning, it was probably pretty close to production if it hadn't all ready started. And for all we know -- we never will -- those problems could have been fixed. Being smaller, the weight issue should not be an issue. They could have coated the glass to reduce finger prints. Could of had better quality material. Could have been the same device, too, sure. The main point here is that they had time to fix and ratify these issues with the following devices. It took HP/Palm three generations to finally make a decent Pre phone (Pre 3) that some of us will never get to use.

    And to make matters worse, HP did not advertise the HP TouchPad before launch. They just assumed people would buy their product. Well HP, you know not even Apple laid down on it's behind while their product started to magically sell. They spent money on actual advertising and did the leg work and put it in your hands. Thats how you sell a product. I could watch TV and see more iPad 2 commercials at any given time from launch to now then I would TouchPad commercials. And I don't watch TV much, I generally On Demand or DVR my TV shows. So the very fact I saw more iPad 2 commercials then TouchPad is not a good thing (I am weird and actually stop at cool looking commercials when DVRing a show). So HP is mad that no one bought their product, and because of that they are giving up a 9.9 Billion dollar business, along with a new business venture they started when the bought Palm. Sure, their PC business had been loosing money but at the same time Apple made 3.95 Million dollars on just the PC sales. As you can see, HP is doing quite well when it comes to selling computers. They might be under performing -- sure, I will admit that. But when you still doing better then everyone else is a good thing (Dell only made 3 million on it's PC business this year).

    I think HP thinks they can make more money out of licensing WebOS and that the HP CEO is an ***** who spoke out of turn on the earnings call. I mean, when two or three other higher ups have to go and correct the CEO and insure people that they aren't giving up their business just yet -- just going about it differently -- then there is something clearly wrong with that CEO and company.
  17. #17  
    Apple Q3 2011 earnings released: Impressive, most impressive. (Updated) | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

    HP Q3 results top Street as PC maker looks beyond Hurd - International Business Times

    Dell's Q3 profits rise on strong enterprise demand | Financial results - InfoWorld


    sources



    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    There are a few things that kind of boggle mt mind here, nappy. Yes, the TouchPad could have been designed better -- but it's funny that people compare it to the original iPad. More to the point, there was a smaller TouchPad that was going to be released around this time -- meaning, it was probably pretty close to production if it hadn't all ready started. And for all we know -- we never will -- those problems could have been fixed. Being smaller, the weight issue should not be an issue. They could have coated the glass to reduce finger prints. Could of had better quality material. Could have been the same device, too, sure. The main point here is that they had time to fix and ratify these issues with the following devices. It took HP/Palm three generations to finally make a decent Pre phone (Pre 3) that some of us will never get to use.

    And to make matters worse, HP did not advertise the HP TouchPad before launch. They just assumed people would buy their product. Well HP, you know not even Apple laid down on it's behind while their product started to magically sell. They spent money on actual advertising and did the leg work and put it in your hands. Thats how you sell a product. I could watch TV and see more iPad 2 commercials at any given time from launch to now then I would TouchPad commercials. And I don't watch TV much, I generally On Demand or DVR my TV shows. So the very fact I saw more iPad 2 commercials then TouchPad is not a good thing (I am weird and actually stop at cool looking commercials when DVRing a show). So HP is mad that no one bought their product, and because of that they are giving up a 9.9 Billion dollar business, along with a new business venture they started when the bought Palm. Sure, their PC business had been loosing money but at the same time Apple made 3.95 Million dollars on just the PC sales. As you can see, HP is doing quite well when it comes to selling computers. They might be under performing -- sure, I will admit that. But when you still doing better then everyone else is a good thing (Dell only made 3 million on it's PC business this year).

    I think HP thinks they can make more money out of licensing WebOS and that the HP CEO is an ***** who spoke out of turn on the earnings call. I mean, when two or three other higher ups have to go and correct the CEO and insure people that they aren't giving up their business just yet -- just going about it differently -- then there is something clearly wrong with that CEO and company.
  18. #18  
    IMO, WebOS surely the best mobile OS on market. I have android phone, and lots of time played with my friends high tech Android phone, I have iPad & iPod (sorry not yet have iPhone) and I have Pre Plus & Veer.
    I have no experience with mobile phone 7 till now, so I can't comment long, but the UI really weird and terrible, especially the square shape & its color.

    Why WebOS can't success or even known by lots of people round the world before it died? Really good question. But I have my opinion.
    1. Because Palm never look other then US market. US market so fierce, lots of competition. Asia especially China is the biggest market so far never touched by Palm & HP too.
    2. Price. If you are an underdog products, we should use make market first by sell cheap first before think profit. Egg or Chicken Theory. Softwre developers will follow as the market grows. Palm have lots of problem with money, so I can't blame them, but HP ? They should can do better then Palm in all aspects. But HP so dumb and match the price of TouchPad with mighty iPad, which lots of Android tablet do the same.
    3. Quality control. Lots of early adopter of Palm Pre suffers of defect & troublesome phone. I have that experience too. Really upset me a lot. I never ask for perfection, but Palm Pre quality really bad which impact a lot to the sales. Bad sales make carrier not interested and so do the software developers.
    4. To much thought to be like Apple. Start point Palm struggled to make Palm Pre sync with iTune. IMO, iTune is the most disaster app I ever know. My opinion still hold till now because I still using iOS. Up till now WebOS don't have sync app by their own. Sync app needed even not a requirement. Up till now we still using homebrew WebOSQI to sync webOS with PC.
    5. Too long to wait. Palm CES2009 announced WebOS. June 2009 release date make people already bored and buy iPhone / other phone instead. This mistakes again copied by HP.. Really terrible.

    Maybe lots of reasons why WebOS become like now. Dying or dead. But for now only those reasons cross in my mind. I will add later if there is any.

    Edit:
    Reason 6:
    App Catalog. App catalog in WebOS is the worst catalog I ever know. Geo Restriction is the most weird & dumb idea. I don't know why and what purpose doing this? Avoid Credit Card Fraud or restrict the device distribution? I don't care what reason is, what I care is, me that live far outside US, UK or Palm marketing area can't buy any apps directly from App Catalog even I have legit CC & I have money to buy. Impostah & gift card is the only way to solve this, but I really don't like Geo Restriction. More over, this way make software developers limited to have customers from allowed country, not all around the world. Even Palm just market their product mostly on US & UK & some European countries, lots of people outside that area manage to buy Palm Pre and want to buy app too. This is never be considered by both Palm & HP.


    -- Sent from my Palm Veer using Forums
    Last edited by The Bard; 08/23/2011 at 10:09 AM.

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