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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyuepik View Post
    WebOS won't run on my hardware. Writing an OS is different than writing a normal program, so the fact that it is compiled with an ARM instruction set is meaningless. Also, while devs will get a well deserved last spike, the fact is that without the promise of new devices, there will be no new users, and so no real inscentive to keep releasing new apps. Also, any bugs in the OS are there to stay, so all those bugs which cause our programs to crash through no fault of our own will remain. Supporting apps in that kind of environment sucks.

    I am happy that the community can go out with this kind of excitement, but it's over. WebOS is now a hobbiest OS.
    Uh, you how software designed for the "_x86" architecture will run on any x86 chip, same as software for dec_alpha runs on any alpha architecture. How is it you think those XDA guys get OS's to run across manufacturer devices? Unicorns and pixie dust??


    Secondly, the "promise" of new devices kept hope alive for 18 months with devs still working on apps despite no hardware since the Pre\Pixie+ devices. 2 million users managed to hang around through that and now we've added up to 1 million more who are new and excited for the platform. That's no different now from the last time except the next new devices will be made by someone else.

    H*ll, when Android was struggling, it wasn't HTC that saved Android from oblivion, it was Motorola of all companies who was off the radar completely since the RAZR. (they too had numerous failed devices prior to the Droid)
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    when Android was struggling, it wasn't HTC that saved Android from oblivion, it was Motorola of all companies who was off the radar completely since the RAZR. (they too had numerous failed devices prior to the Droid)
    I'd argue it was Verizon and their aggressive marketing that saved Android, not Motorola themselves. Verizon was desperate to have something that was similar to the iPhone on their network, so they were behind Android very strongly.

    None of the major carriers are that desperate for iPhone competitors anymore, so it's in all likelihood not happening again.
  3. #63  
    Cobrakon:

    I am not gonna start a flame war on this, but I have custom written the ARM asm for my WebOS programs, so I am well aware of how asm works.

    I also know how OS design works. WebOS could have been designed with a virtualization layer, which would allow what you are talking about; it wasn't. It was hacked together to run on the chips they were using. It was lousy design necessitated by an underfunded company in the first instance, then by a company that was pushing unrealistic deadlines.
    mojo-filter and sinsin07 like this.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Uh, you how software designed for the "_x86" architecture will run on any x86 chip, same as software for dec_alpha runs on any alpha architecture. How is it you think those XDA guys get OS's to run across manufacturer devices? Unicorns and pixie dust??


    Secondly, the "promise" of new devices kept hope alive for 18 months with devs still working on apps despite no hardware since the Pre\Pixie+ devices. 2 million users managed to hang around through that and now we've added up to 1 million more who are new and excited for the platform. That's no different now from the last time except the next new devices will be made by someone else.

    H*ll, when Android was struggling, it wasn't HTC that saved Android from oblivion, it was Motorola of all companies who was off the radar completely since the RAZR. (they too had numerous failed devices prior to the Droid)
    I would think it'll still take them quite a bit longer their normal time frame to come up with a product line for an OS that's new to them.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    HP actually HELPED devs by handing them 100's of thousands of new users.
    Yep, HP helped devs by canceling the only hardware that runs the apps that they are writing.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    If my hypothesis was wrong, it was because what HP did was illogical, and, even Wall Street cant understand it (down %25% Friday, the day after), so, Im in good company, and my LOGIC was correct, and HP didn't follow it (and their stated goals), and is now suffering.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Yep, HP helped devs by canceling the only hardware that runs the apps that they are writing.
    Yep, shame about all that spontaneous combustion going on with these webOS devices. Cause you know, after midnight they all turn into pumpk...wait, it's been a day and yep, TPad still here and working. Wait, hold on a second...WITH? My Sprint Pre is still here and working great a year after it was cancelled? And I just bought a couple more apps for it too...

    Okay, what's with all those devices working after they are no longer sold. Better tell my cousins to keep a safe distance from their .3GS's as well. Wouldn't want them to get burned during the combustion. :trolleys:


    Why are you still here again?? You should DEF be gone now, since everything's dead, but then you never had any contributions anyway. Guess I'll be pressing a lot of little triangles in the coming days...
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Yep, shame about all that spontaneous combustion going on with these webOS devices. Cause you know, after midnight they all turn into pumpk...wait, it's been a day and yep, TPad still here and working. Wait, hold on a second...WITH? My Sprint Pre is still here and working great a year after it was cancelled? And I just bought a couple more apps for it too...

    Okay, what's with all those devices working after they are no longer sold. Better tell my cousins to keep a safe distance from their .3GS's as well. Wouldn't want them to get burned during the combustion. :trolleys:


    Why are you still here again?? You should DEF be gone now, since everything's dead, but then you never had any contributions anyway. Guess I'll be pressing a lot of little triangles in the coming days...
    Your right. HP killing off the TouchPad after 1.5 months is a huge positive for WebOS. Thanks for helping me see that. After all HP has all but admitted that they have failed miserably with WebOS and especially the TouchPad, they are now almost giving them away.

    While the TP will still operate, you will see little to no interest from any of the major developers. You will see practically no new development begun for a unit that is not being produced anymore. Your so right. Everything that has happened this week has been incredibly positive for HP and WebOS.

    By the way, Apple still sells and supports the 3GS. Cant you even do a little search before you post this stuff?
  9. errsta's Avatar
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    #69  
    Possibly.

    HP created an instant, significant user base.

    Bearing in mind that they did it accidentally, don't put it beyond them to screw it up. I'm actually pretty surprised how "viral" the firesale went. If they play their cards right, webOS can be the #2 tablet platform for the foreseeable future.
  10. #70  
    Look, while I am negative about WebOS's future, the TouchPad is still a better than average way to browse the web, and is well worth the firesale price. Everyone needs to stop investing so much in being negative or positive, just be realistic and enjoy it for what it is.
    johncase3 likes this.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyuepik View Post
    Look, while I am negative about WebOS's future, the TouchPad is still a better than average way to browse the web, and is well worth the firesale price. Everyone needs to stop investing so much in being negative or positive, just be realistic and enjoy it for what it is.
    no1 is negative about what the touchpad can do NOW, we know what it can do, we bought them for that reason specifically, people are just saying they have no upgradeable future.

    and webOS and the touchpad are basically split apart now, webOS will or may continue in some form or another, but the touchpad is stuck as it is, whatever form webOS takes now will not be on a touchpad in the future, ironic as to produce something for the future hardware you kind of need the current touchpad.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Yep, shame about all that spontaneous combustion going on with these webOS devices. Cause you know, after midnight they all turn into pumpk...wait, it's been a day and yep, TPad still here and working. Wait, hold on a second...WITH? My Sprint Pre is still here and working great a year after it was cancelled? And I just bought a couple more apps for it too...

    Okay, what's with all those devices working after they are no longer sold. Better tell my cousins to keep a safe distance from their .3GS's as well. Wouldn't want them to get burned during the combustion. :trolleys:


    Why are you still here again?? You should DEF be gone now, since everything's dead, but then you never had any contributions anyway. Guess I'll be pressing a lot of little triangles in the coming days...
    Man, it seems like it doesn't matter what wrong path webOS travels down, you can somehow spin it as being good. In any case, if webOS never does find a licensee, I can't wait to see how you spin that as being helpful for the platform as well.
  13. redmist's Avatar
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    #73  
    Lets clear this up.

    A massive influx of new users is good for webOS, short term. Developers, cash in!

    it says nothing, however, about webOS long term.
    Pilot 5000 > Pre > Pre2 > Pre3 > Galaxy Nexus
    TouchPad > Galaxy Tab 8.9
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMist View Post
    Lets clear this up.

    A massive influx of new users is good for webOS, short term. Developers, cash in!

    it says nothing, however, about webOS long term.
    This week will be telling; I'm sure developers will see a slight spike in app sales, but I don't expect it to be anything major. Someone that buys a $100 tablet isn't going to heavily invest in the platform.

    Many may buy the $100 tablet and never pay for a single application, but rather use it for just its browser and email capabilities.

    If you look Android and its application sales, they are much much lower than Apple's despite having a larger marketshare —*any idea why this is? Hint: read above. I need to find the article I recently read that laid this out in detail, if I find it, I'll link back to it here.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    This week will be telling; I'm sure developers will see a slight spike in app sales, but I don't expect it to be anything major. Someone that buys a $100 tablet isn't going to heavily invest in the platform.

    Many may buy the $100 tablet and never pay for a single application, but rather use it for just its browser and email capabilities.

    If you look Android and its application sales, they are much much lower than Apple's despite having a larger marketshare *any idea why this is? Hint: read above. I need to find the article I recently read that laid this out in detail, if I find it, I'll link back to it here.
    I spent about $200-300 on iOS iPhone and iPad apps. I've spent $75 on Android apps total.
    How much will I spend on webOS? Honestly, don't hate me but I think zero. With no guarantee of a future hardware or software updates, I won't invest in a platform with an uncertain future. Don't get me wrong, I still like it for what it is.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I saw a tear down estimate of over double that amount...
    The lower umber is actually more correct due to enconomy of scale.

    I would guess they probably had an order agreement with costs/unit dropping as the orders reached higher quantities shipped.

    So, for argument's sake, lets just talk about the 16 GB version only (they are making a lot more with the 32gb version... 32 gb memory instead of 16 gb probably costs them $10 more per unit, the rest is pure profit, I believe):

    If they only manufactured, say, 100,000 units, the cost per unit would likely have been closer to the $300/unit, but, at 500,000+ units shipped, I can see the cost dropping to $200/unit, and at 1,000,000 units, down to a flat $150/unit.

    Im thinking a net loss of $100 - $200/unit, overall. At 500,000 units, thats $100,000,000. Not a whole lot, in retrospect, to their balance sheet.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Man, it seems like it doesn't matter what wrong path webOS travels down, you can somehow spin it as being good. In any case, if webOS never does find a licensee, I can't wait to see how you spin that as being helpful for the platform as well.
    Just because he's an optimist, doesn't mean he is "spinning".. he, and many others like him, can see good possibilities through all of the potentially poor ones.

    You can argue until you are blue in the face, jump up and down, and scream at the top of your lungs how far fetched this is, but, at the end of the day, WebOS just got at least 500,000 new users in a weekend, if not more.

    Package that up with all of those past (who left for hardware reasons) and present (who currently still use WebOS devices), and then throw into that the fact that the OS is still probably the best mobile OS in exitence, to date, and, perhaps, for some hardware manufacturer there is something to work on and grow with real state of the art hardware using the OS on it.

    Or, perhaps, instead of licensing WebOS out, HP partners up with a well established mfr in a joint venture to produce a smartphone and/or tablet, whereas HP provides and supports the OS, and the MFR has complete control over the hardware, from functionality to aesthetics and specs.

    Or, perhaps they spin off the whole PC division, and they become "Palm" again, only now with PC's as well.

    All of the above are now, at least moderately more feasible than what appeared to be almost certain sale of WebOS for the patent IP, which I believe RIM would be drooling all over, because they would then be able to make QNX into exactly what they want it to be: a WebOS OS look and feel, only with impunity.

    So, its not "twisting" - things are bad, but, all of these new users, who will likely realize for the first time what a really well designed mobile OS can do to make them not only productive, is a good thing.

    I bought 3 32 gb TP's yesterday - at those prices, they are now very affordable toys - no "tablet" is needed in my family, but, we can sure put them to good use. I showed the demo to my wife, and for her, she was amazed and is eagerly waiting hers to arrive, and laready has looked at the app catalog and has earmarked about 10 apps she intends to buy, immediately.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

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