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  1. #41  
    Still working through the stages of grief here..

    The one message that seems to keep coming through is that HP will continue using webOS, pushing for it. They can generate revenue by keeping the app and profile servers running. They're just not building any more boxen after Q4.

    Another thing - no more laptops, desktops or servers? This news falls very hard on the webOS community, but what if you're a business with a big HP contract? What if you've got racks filled with HP gear? I'm crushed, but I didn't spend millions on a data center with hardware that will be sunset in the coming years.

    This just sounds like a rash decision at the top, fueled by worries of shareholder revolt. It seems to have nothing to do with maintaining the viability of a previously respected brand and company, and everything to do with not ****ing off the rich folks. Sounds familiar. Leo should run for Congress.
    dj ozone likes this.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The quote below answers the 100% question for you.

    Of course, there will be the typical naysayers insisting it's dead. The ONLY thing "dead" for sure is that HP is not making future hardware for webOS. They are still making webOS.
    What good is an OS without hardware? How attractive is such an OS to developers?
    How attractive is existing hardware, nevermind how low the price, with that OS to the average consumer if the average consumer knows that there is no more hardware produced? (unlike news about new telephones, this stuff makes the rounds, especially since it's bundled to the bombshell that HP may be spinning off their PC business).

    How attractive is the OS to potential licensees if a) its producers just stopped making hardware for it because they didn't want to risk investing any more money into it, b) the little developer support there may be evaporating completely, and c) there is no userbase to speak of, people won't buy new units and a lot of units that have been sold will be returned because people don't want to be caught in a dead end?

    Please scan my posts over the last two years on this forum and tell me: do I look like "the typical naysayer"?

    When HP bought Palm, they made themselves out to be knights in shining armor that would "double down on webOS" even if it meant running "a marathon, not a sprint".
    Now, one year after the buyout, a mere three months since the launched the first product of that buyout, they're breaking off the tents - no more devices from them, no word on licensees, just noncommittal talk of "exploring all options".

    webOS isn't fully dead, but while the outlook has always been a bit hazy, it just got a whole lot worse. At least with HP fully at its back, there seemed some potential. Now that HP doesn't want to fully back it anymore, I don't know.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberprashant View Post
    CHUQ wrote:

    folks, I know it's tough, but try to relax a bit. I'm working to get you as much information as I can as fast as I can. All I can say right now is that is that I don't see this as bad for webOS.
    I'll take 3 of whatever Chuq is having.
  4. #44  
    The problem isn't even just the apps, but users too.

    I love webOS and am going to be sad to have to move to another platform, but there comes a time when you have to get a new phone.

    At one point, this came in switching from my Treo 755p to a Windows Mobile q9c, now it'll probably be from my Pre 2 to Android or something. So most users, even if you're not switching immediately, have to plan ahead. There's a ton (I don't even want to add up how much) of apps I've paid for up until this point, and I was fine with that. No matter how much money I spent, it was okay, because I'm going to continue staying on webOS.

    But now, we all know (unless we're in denial) that the next phone we purchased has no chance of running webOS. Why would anyone in their right mind make a further monetary investment when they're just going to have to start from scratch on the new platform?

    I mean, it's bad enough that the apps run in a crappy little window on the Touchpad, but if I switch to any other platform, I have to re-buy apps to do the same things. This switch is going to be forced on me sooner rather than later, so there's no point in wasting money that could be otherwise invested in a different platform.

    Not to mention that the App Catalog itself is entirely hosted by HP, with absolutely no backup of local apps. When the App Catalog server is disconnected, then you can never re-download your apps again. And keep in mind that you can't even do the initial setup of your phone without creating a Palm profile, and as soon as you get disconnected from that Palm Profile, your device gets wiped. Yes, there's patches and ways around this, but you're talking about a small user base and making it even smaller.

    And HP is going to cut down in staffing at the webOS group... With the pace of improvement how it is, is a cut in staffing going to help?

    I've been behind Palm and HP while they made a ton of missteps and lied to us a ton of times, because despite all the crap, the platform worked best for me. Unfortunately, they've kicked out the legs of the platform and there's not a single reason to stay when I upgrade my phone.

    ...Sad really, as I think about how much money (and more than the money, time and effort) was wasted. (Pre- x3 for parts, hacked to a Pre +, hacked to a Pre 2 on Sprint, plus a no-contract Veer, the Touchpad, and oh... 5 Touchstones, Touchpad Touchstone, Touchpad Case, Touchpad Keyboard which is useless on any other device, and again, way too much money on apps.) Yes, they served me well for the two years I had them, but it was always considered by me that I was investing in the platform for the long-haul, just like I thought Palm and HP were.

    And I should add that I'm sure HP thinks they can license webOS to make some money off of it, but by announcing today that they were shuttering webOS hardware and not announcing hardware partners immediately, they killed any chances of that happening. If they really wanted to license it, they could have stopped production (it's not like there isn't a surplus of devices right now) and waited to announce anything regarding the hardware until they had a partner. By announcing webOS devices are dead and leaving future hardware and the OS itself in limbo like this, they've effectively killed any possible chance of that happening.
    Last edited by jhoff80; 08/18/2011 at 07:56 PM.
    nyrath, dsei and Imperator64 like this.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Most of us that bought the TouchPad did it for webOS, why would we now suddenly want Android?
    Because it has a future?
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The problem isn't even just the apps, but users too.

    I love webOS and am going to be sad to have to move to another platform, but there comes a time when you have to get a new phone.

    At one point, this came in switching from my Treo 755p to a Windows Mobile q9c, now it'll probably be from my Pre 2 to Android or something. So most users, even if you're not switching immediately, have to plan ahead. There's a ton (I don't even want to add up how much) of apps I've paid for up until this point, and I was fine with that. No matter how much money I spent, it was okay, because I'm going to continue staying on webOS.

    But now, we all know (unless we're in denial) that the next phone we purchased has no chance of running webOS. Why would anyone in their right mind make a further monetary investment when they're just going to have to start from scratch on the new platform?

    I mean, it's bad enough that the apps run in a crappy little window on the Touchpad, but if I switch to any other platform, I have to re-buy apps to do the same things. This switch is going to be forced on me sooner rather than later, so there's no point in wasting money that could be otherwise invested in a different platform.

    Not to mention that the App Catalog itself is entirely hosted by HP, with absolutely no backup of local apps. When the App Catalog server is disconnected, then you can never re-download your apps again. And keep in mind that you can't even do the initial setup of your phone without creating a Palm profile, and as soon as you get disconnected from that Palm Profile, your device gets wiped. Yes, there's patches and ways around this, but you're talking about a small user base and making it even smaller.

    And HP is going to cut down in staffing at the webOS group... With the pace of improvement how it is, is a cut in staffing going to help?

    I've been behind Palm and HP while they made a ton of missteps and lied to us a ton of times, because despite all the crap, the platform worked best for me. Unfortunately, they've kicked out the legs of the platform and there's not a single reason to stay when I upgrade my phone.

    ...Sad really, as I think about how much money (and more than the money, time and effort) was wasted. (Pre- x3 for parts, hacked to a Pre +, hacked to a Pre 2 on Sprint, plus a no-contract Veer, the Touchpad, and oh... 5 Touchstones, Touchpad Touchstone, Touchpad Case, Touchpad Keyboard which is useless on any other device, and again, way too much money on apps.) Yes, they served me well for the two years I had them, but it was always considered by me that I was investing in the platform for the long-haul, just like I thought Palm and HP were.

    And I should add that I'm sure HP thinks they can license webOS to make some money off of it, but by announcing today that they were shuttering webOS hardware and not announcing hardware partners immediately, they killed any chances of that happening. If they really wanted to license it, they could have stopped production (it's not like there isn't a surplus of devices right now) and waited to announce anything regarding the hardware until they had a partner. By announcing webOS devices are dead and leaving future hardware and the OS itself in limbo like this, they've effectively killed any possible chance of that happening.
    +1000
    KA1
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism/Digital Link->Treo 650->Treo 700p->Pre->GSM Unlocked Pre 2 (wifi only)->FrankenPre + Touchpad 32 ->+ Touchpad 4G ATT + ATT Pre3 + 64 White Touchpad... bliss.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    Because it has a future?
    They're not looking for a future. If that was the case they would of left webos a long time ago.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    I'll take 3 of whatever Chuq is having.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    They're not looking for a future. If that was the case they would of left webos a long time ago.
    Ice cold.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by etphoto View Post
    I think there are at least one class action lawsuit in HP's future. To lessen the blow they will continue to release a few updates to WebOS for the near future.

    ET
    I think that's a very good likelyhood, especially if they do not release the promised office suite.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    why would any app developer spend any time on WebOS when the owner of the OS has admitted its a monster failure? Its game over. Accept it and move on.
    And yet, there have already been developers stating exactly that.
    I know, I know, you don't want to accept that, but they've said so. I won't even address the possibility of "moving on".
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Um, lets face it , these Naysayers that you have been arguing against since the launch have been right.
    Nope, they're not. At least not yet.

    The only product that HP had discontinued is the hardware.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    What good is an OS without hardware? How attractive is such an OS to developers?
    How attractive is existing hardware, nevermind how low the price, with that OS to the average consumer if the average consumer knows that there is no more hardware produced? (unlike news about new telephones, this stuff makes the rounds, especially since it's bundled to the bombshell that HP may be spinning off their PC business).
    No good at all, of course. However, the dust hasn't settled. If no one buys webOS, then I'll agree it's dead. PalmOS went through far more turmoil than webOS has, and it stuck around several years beyond the initial changing of hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    How attractive is the OS to potential licensees if a) its producers just stopped making hardware for it because they didn't want to risk investing any more money into it, b) the little developer support there may be evaporating completely, and c) there is no userbase to speak of, people won't buy new units and a lot of units that have been sold will be returned because people don't want to be caught in a dead end?
    Don't know yet, but very possibly a company looking for a fire sale (and yes, there are those).

    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Please scan my posts over the last two years on this forum and tell me: do I look like "the typical naysayer"?

    When HP bought Palm, they made themselves out to be knights in shining armor that would "double down on webOS" even if it meant running "a marathon, not a sprint".
    Now, one year after the buyout, a mere three months since the launched the first product of that buyout, they're breaking off the tents - no more devices from them, no word on licensees, just noncommittal talk of "exploring all options".

    webOS isn't fully dead, but while the outlook has always been a bit hazy, it just got a whole lot worse. At least with HP fully at its back, there seemed some potential. Now that HP doesn't want to fully back it anymore, I don't know.
    Nope, I don't think you're a typical naysayer, and your disappointment in HP is certainly deserved. However, I think that disappointment my be causing a little more doom and gloom than is warranted at this point.

    I'm still seeing a lot of developers saying their working on their product. It will be interesting, to say the least.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
    Cantaffordit likes this.
  14. #54  
    I know the denial runs thick sometimes but the notion of "webOS isn't dead because frankos72 is still going to release Simple Bible" is just...wow.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    Because it has a future?
    But buying an android device does nothing for the devices we already have, future or no future.

    We didn't buy these devices because of their outstanding hardware - we bought them because of webOS. If webOS goes away, I personally won't be looking to Android for my solution. Some of the flavors of Android have a future, many do not.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  16. #56  
    First of all, i want to say, im so happy I didnt wait to long to make the switch. So are we gonna be picking up these phones for $50 on the net? Lol. I still want my webos experience. I even have a webos theme on my evo.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
    If you want to buy a Palm Pre is great condition. Here's your chance.

    http://forums.precentral.net/showthr...91#post2782191
  17. #57  
    What does this mean for everything we just heard recently...like the supposed Touchpad Go, or the new Touchstone dock, the Touchpad 4g, etc?

    Are they gone and acting like they were never going to exist? or is HP still going to be selling these things?
  18. #58  
    Lots of discussion about the possibility for HP to license out WebOS or sell it outright. From HP's posture on all of this, I don't gather that they are really all that interested in WebOS anymore. However, whether they license it or sell it outright, there's is one thing, and one thing only that will allow WebOS to finally have some success in the mobile market. APP DEVELOPMENT. It's just purely obvious now that the general population cares first and foremost about apps. "How many apps does it have compared to the iPhone or Android?" That question has been asked many, many, many times by many potential customers. We may very well see WebOS on a Samsung device...but it won't be for a long time. Samsung would have to use whatever clout they have to cajole developers into producing apps for WebOS and that will simply take time. Frankly, it may not be possible to get a 3rd chance for WebOS. But, they would have to prove that they have a REAL roadmap for the release of WebOS device with competitive specs and not just pie in the sky "coming soon" junk HP threw out there. They would have to convince developers they are committed to WebOS and would be releasing devices at large scale at regular intervals in multiple form factors. IF they can do that AND get bigtime developers on board THEN once those apps are ready they could start to produce WebOS devices. Customers don't want a device that "should have blah blah blah very soon". The iPhone and Android have it now, so why wait for some mysterious time in the future? Most customer simply don't care about the "elegance" or ingenuity of a mobile OS unless the apps are there to back it up. I tried a million times to convince my fiance that WebOS, at its core, was a better OS than iOS...but it always came back to "yeah, I guess it's nice, but can it do _________?", which it inevitably couldn't b/c there was no app available. The fact is this: If the apps are there, people will buy WebOS. Pure and simple. Sadly, this may just not be possible. There's no way any company get WebOS in the same galaxy as the number of iOS apps and, unfortunately, that is a deciding factor for the overwhelming majority of smartphone suitors. The best Samsung (or whoever it might be...if it's to be) can do is simply try to get all the biggest and best apps ready for WebOS by the time they release their first device. Start at the top (Netflix, QuickOffice, Kindle, etc) and work your way down. This would take a HUGE commitment and A LOT of faith in twice failed OS, and no company may be willing to make that kind of commitment. There's a lot of "ifs" in all of this, but this is the only way WebOS could ever make it.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And yet, there have already been developers stating exactly that.
    I know, I know, you don't want to accept that, but they've said so. I won't even address the possibility of "moving on".
    Perhaps a few, but most won't. Its over.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I know the denial runs thick sometimes but the notion of "webOS isn't dead because frankos72 is still going to release Simple Bible" is just...wow.
    well time like this, I guess faithful do need some god's wisdom.
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