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  1.    #1  
    Tired of waiting, paying $7/mo for non-functioning GPRS. Don't want to turn my phone into a coaster with the hacked software update. T-Mobile, AT&T and Cingular all offer GPRS now, but Handspring says they're waiting for the manufacturers to approve the software?? Ship the sucker, already. I'm really getting steamed. At least an update would be nice, my emails to customer service just get lip service.

    Grrr. This is the main reason I bought the phone, because GPRS was shipping "in a few weeks".
  2. rfg17's Avatar
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    #2  
    As someone who upgraded to GPRS when the greymarket update became available in September, I've got to say that I'm not sure what all the whining is about.

    Some things to consider:

    1. GPRS data exchange is not all that much faster than CSD.
    2. I have the 600 minute GetMore plan from T-Mobile with free weekends for $39.99. With the amount of calling/data I do my CSD calls never bumped me over my plan. Especially with the free weekend calls (CSD too!). Versus a pricey additional $19.95 for 10MBytes.
    3. Lately, I find I have to reconnect frequently to the GPRS service for it to work if it's been idle for a while. So much for "always-on" data.

    The bottom line is after two months, I'm thinking of dropping my GPRS plan w/T-Mobile and just using CSD. It's a lot less expensive for not that much loss over GPRS. GPRS is not a panacea.

    (Now the mute button and speakerphone changes to the GPRS upgraded phone app-- they're the real reasons to take the jump and upgrade )
  3. #3  
    Especially with the new plan TMo just rolled out - 5000 minutes for $100! That's what I was paying for 1500 minutes just last month. Incredible. Now, I want the upgrade more for the feature enhancements than the always on... Until they roll out a $20 or less all you can eat data plan, I'll stick to my dial up. No reason not to now.

    TM
  4. #4  
    I mentioned several times on this site that GPRS would not be availible in the United States until Dec 2002 or Jan 2003 at the EARLIEST. I had extensive arguments that almost cost me my job to meet a November 1st roll out from our largest market. The United States Of America.

    Those posts can be found here:

    thread 1: 10-17-2002

    thread 2: 08-12-2002

    Even as early as May 2002, I gave you a date:

    thread 3: 05-22-2002

    Real inside info comes at a price, hopefully not my job. You people deserve better than this.

    BTW: This new prototype looks sweet! Hope we have enough cash to bring it to market!
  5. #5  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by TreoGirl
    BTW: This new prototype looks sweet! Hope we have enough cash to bring it to market!

    Awwww, what a lousy way to end a post. You can't drop something like that, it's just not fair.
  6. #6  
    AGREED!! YOU CANT DO THAT!!! PLEASE tell us more...

    TM
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by TreoGirl
    I had extensive arguments that almost cost me my job to meet a November 1st roll out from our largest market. The United States Of America.
    So you work for Handspring, hum?
    Your comment that I quoted worries me.

    The US of A is your largest market because, as I mentioned more than once in the forum, Handspring thinks small.
    Yes, I said 'small'!
    How big a market are the USA?
    How big a market is the rest of the world?
    And only counting those fortunate enough to be able to buy themself a pricy device as the Treo...

    Follow Nokia example, Handspring people.
    They don't think Finnish or even European, they think worldwide, and their primary market is not the EU (European Union for those who don't know) but the world.
    So they developped product to accomodate the world.
    So they became the world leader in their industry.

    I love the USA where I lived many years, but sometimes you're much too much self-centered!

    And you loose markets against the competition and you wonder why.

    Wake up Handspring!
    Your product is good, but might not yet be up to the world's competition (Nokia, Sony Ericsson, HP and more coming up), even if you are one of the best in the USA!
    There is a world out there, you know...
  8. #8  
    Handspring isn't a big enough company to spread all over the world like Nokia has.
    Here's an analogy for you.
    Nokia = 600 pound gorilla
    Handspring = 10 poung lemur.

    Just because Handspring hasn't started selling Treos all over the world for $50 with contract doesn't mean it's self-centered or USA-centric. It means Handspring is a relatively small company that just can't compete with gargantuan companies like Nokia or Sony/Ericsson, or many others. Handspring is still just a small Palm OS licensee, not a huge multi-national corporation like Nokia.

    I feel your pain, but you act as if it's a decision on Handspring's part to limit it's products to the US, and that's just not the way it is.

    -Greg
    Seattle Palm Users Group!
    http://www.seapug.com/
  9. #9  
    Sorry Greg, but I don't agree with you.
    And this is why:

    It is a corporate decision.
    Nokia is a big corporation today, but back in 1967 it was a middle-size Finnish company that wasn't doing so great.

    Do you know the size of Finland and the economical importance of this country in Europe compared to those heavy-weights UK, France or Germany?

    Nokia had no reason to become the giant it is today: very small market in a remote, and almost forgotten country (please forgive me, Finnish readers!).

    You have to have the will to extend your market.
    In today's world, a country (even as big as the USA or the EU) is not big enough to succeed in the mobile phone industry.
    The market is global, worlwide if you will. And so must be the companies that try to make themselves a name.
    Look at Siemens, Alcatel, LG or Samsung.
    Not as big as Nokia, but you can find them almost everywhere (even if they adapt their devices to local specifities and you don't find all their phones everywhere).

    By moving from being "a small Palm OS licensee", as you say, to a communicator / smartphone designer / producer, Handspring joined the worldwide arena where competition is fierce... and international!

    They have no more choice than understanding that the USA is only one of their market. Should they want to survive.

    They should look at the Motorola example:
    Motorola was the typical US-centric company, selling outside without much conviction, and lost billions.
    Today, Motorola learned its lesson and has a worlwide market (the first Accompli, for example, was even designed exclusively for the Chinese market. It is because of its success that they decided to also sell it outside China).
    They do much better today, but still have a long way to walk...

    I'm not sure that Handspring can afford Motorola's mistakes and slow understanding.
    They should make the right corporate decision before the US market proves too late to be much too small.
  10. #10  
    Ah, but you see, when Nokia and the other phone big-boys started out, cellular communications was still in its infancy, *especially* in the consumer market. At this point, it's such a big industry, being mostly controlled by these huge phone makers making huge deals with even bigger carriers (T-Mobile, anyone?), that it's hard for a new company to "break in" to the industry as anything more than a guppy in the lake.
    Another analogy for you. Nokia = Microsoft and Handspring = BeOS (os something equally small comparitively).
    If Handspring invested billions (wherever that got that kind of money from ;-) in manufacturing plants such that they could crank out phones in the numbers that Nokia does so that they could sell them for the rock-bottom prices that nokia does so that the carriers would buy them in the huge numbers that they do from Nokia, so that the devices could be in the hands of millions of people around the world like Nokias are... do you REALLY think that Nokia would stand there and watch their marketshare crumble? Do you reall think they they wouldn't (and don't *already*) do everything in their power to maintain market dominance? Do you think they wouldn't (and aren't) using their position as major manufacturer of phones for companies like T-Mobile to *influence* the carriers into giving small companies like Handspring a hard time with their certification?
    As much as I believe in the free market and capitolism, the sad truth is that power and money begets greed and lust for more power. Big companies like Nokia will fight tooth and nail to maintain their dominance (see Microsoft ;-), and hindering Handspring from spreading all over the world is just one way to do that.
    I'm not conspiracist, but I'm absolutely sure that Handspring is not ignoring the rest of the world with their phones. If the US is all they cared about, they would have come out with the Treo 300 first. FYI: the Treo 180 and 270 are available to most, if not all, countries that have GSM carriers, right? In fact, it's all THOSE carriers that already have GPRS updates for their Treo users, while the US market sits and *****es.

    -Greg
    Seattle Palm Users Group!
    http://www.seapug.com/
  11.    #11  
    No wonder Handspring stock is under a dollar, they're being run by idiots. What is the holdup, anyway? They say they're waiting for the drivers to be approved by cell companies. What's the real story?
  12. #12  
    Greg, guess what ? I don't agree with you!

    And I don't agree for one major reason. You said:
    when Nokia and the other phone big-boys started out, cellular communications was still in its infancy, *especially* in the consumer market
    Sorry, but if it is true for guys like Nokia, Motorola or Ericsson, it is not for Samsung, LG, Alcatel, Siemens and other Mitsubishi or Panasonic.
    OK, some of them have huge corporations to back them up (Siemens, Alcatel) - but they are not necessarily those who do the best, while others (LG, Samsung) are relatively new but they have the corporate will to ovetake the market and they go for it strongly!

    You also said:

    If Handspring invested billions (wherever that got that kind of money from ;-) in manufacturing plants such that they could crank out phones in the numbers that Nokia does so that they could sell them for the rock-bottom prices that nokia does
    Most mobile phones companies do not manufacture their devices themselves.
    They followed the lead of PC brands: they subcontracted them to Asian manufacturers who are able to build quality devices at very low cost.
    I don't know about Handspring, but I'm pretty sure that they will do the same sooner or later, as this is the only viable solution today.

    do you REALLY think that Nokia would stand there and watch their marketshare crumble? Do you reall think they they wouldn't (and don't *already*) do everything in their power to maintain market dominance?
    Of course I don't expect Nokia to stay still and let Handspring or any other competitor grab a part of their market!
    This is called 'capitalism'!
    But I saw Sony Ericsson with their P800 attacking Nokia 7650.
    I see the Siemens SX45i or the new HP Jornada attacking Nokia 9210 (and more recent subsequent devices).
    And I also see 'little' Handspring coming with its Treo to battle against Siemens SX45i, Sagem WA3050, Nokia 9210i, HP Jornada and so on.
    But if you think small before engaging a battle of that size, do you think you have any chance to win?

    Do you think that G. Washington thought small before engaging the mighty British army (OK, the French came to help him. But still...)?

    This is the same idea.
    Today, Handspring thinks small, and the comment of Treogirl proves it.

    The day Handspring decided to shift from being a small successful Palm OS licensee to a smartphone / communicator (whatever you want to call it!) designer, it came into battle against the biggest.
    They should have checked they had enough money and ready to fight before engaging.
    Now it's too late.

    In this volatile and highly competitive WORLDWIDE market, they must have a minimum of one new finished device per year (you may say what you want, but Treo was not ready when it hit the market, few months ago) or they will loose their market share immediatly.

    Can they afford to be that prolific?
    You tell me.
  13. #13  
    It's all related to the carriers.
    Software is done.

    I explained that already in detail.
  14. #14  
    TreoGirl,

    We hear you, it's just that this seems to make no sense (or that the carriers are citing legitimate concerns with the software that Handspring cannot or will not address). There are several devices already approved and working with the other carriers, some that were seemingly in development no earlier (and likely later) than the Treo.

    I can't imagine what the carriers would be 'sitting on' at this point or why, if the software works so well.

    TM
  15. #15  
    Will this be version 1.1 or something beyond? 1.0 and 1.1 has been working great with T-Mobile since September. Love some of the new features in 1.1.
  16. #16  
    If it is related to carrier issues - why does handspring threaten to void its CUSTOMERS' warranties???

    Handspring should support their software if it is "done" and allow their customers to deal with the carriers...

    Is Handspring such a CONTROL FREAK!
    Bob
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by TreoGirl
    It's all related to the carriers.
    Software is done.
    What I guess many of us would like you to explain is why GPRS is an issue for Handspring since Treo's day 1 while it isn't for its competitors - as far as I can see?
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by tlcbob
    If it is related to carrier issues - why does handspring threaten to void its CUSTOMERS' warranties???

    Handspring should support their software if it is "done" and allow their customers to deal with the carriers...

    Is Handspring such a CONTROL FREAK!
    I agree. Why not say come and download, but don't expect support from the carrier and scare people with the warranty stuff. How does installing THEIR software on THEIR device somehow void my warranty?? When the carrier approves, it's still going to be Handspring replacing my unti if the same upgrade fries it.
  19. randyg's Avatar
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    #19  
    Hey i've got an idea! what not keep the GPRS posts to the GPRS forum?
    a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste
  20. #20  
    Hey, if the mods got a problem they are free to move it. As the post has been here for 6 days now, must not be to great a concern.

    Nice contribution.
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