View Poll Results: Is privacy important

Voters
51. You may not vote on this poll
  • No

    3 5.88%
  • I don't care

    0 0%
  • Yes

    35 68.63%
  • I like turtles

    13 25.49%
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. Bib
    Bib is offline
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    15 Posts
       #1  
    Hello fellow citizens...

    I've written this as a comment to the article on the front page:
    HP's McKinney teases the (non-webOS) connected wristwatch

    I think this topic is far too interesting and far too important to be discussed in the comments. In fact the article concentrates more on the watch and ignores the contents of McKinney's speech, which is what I want to concentrate on, therefore I decided to start a thread in the forums.

    I've watched the complete speech and I must say that's some scary stuff he's talking about:
    • Sensors everywhere
    • People leaving information breadcrumbs everywhere
    • having all your info in the cloud
    • identifying people throu their faces and gathering all their info from the cloud.


    If you think a bit further you could come to some conclusions:
    You couldn't just learn someone's name, but also where they've been all day (sensors everywhere?), their health status, any trouble with the police and so on. The glass citizen in perfection.

    If the society develops in such a direction, it could be, that you have no choice but to submit to this information nightmare. Even if it is theoretically optional to publish your data to the cloud, it would probably become difficult to use certain services. For example, try living without a bank account in our days.
    Because I couldn't find an easy way to sync my mobile phones data locally to my PC I recently used the active sync functionality provided by google. It's just to easy to go that way. It's so easy that most people don't even know the consequences. Who bothers reading privacy statements?

    In those two sentences he talked about privacy, he scetched a third party driven "information fortress". This third party's task is to protect my information and all my information is gathered there. In other words a company like google gets paid to protect my data, so I don't need to think about it.
    How can a third party be trusted so much? Even if the third party is trustworthy, who guarantees, that it stays that way?

    Information in the cloud can not be deleted.
    A third party can never be trusted forever.
    That means any information stored in the cloud will at some time be in the wrong hands or even publicly available.

    He should think about making it "insanely simple" for us to protect our information ourselves. DRM could be a possible solution to this. The problem with DRM is not DRM itself, but the publishers. The reason, why you can't play DRM pretected music on all of your devices is not because it's protected, it's because the publisher decided to forbid it.

    I wonder why the privacy problems aren't addressed by one of the many big tech companys. This has a lot of potential to differentiate from the others. An open system, which guarantees, that my information stays my information. A system, wich can be verified by everyone.

    Congratulations, if you managed to read this far ;)
  2. #2  
    Like it or not (and I lean towards the latter), this is the direction everyone is headed in. Eric Schmidt, in particular, has made a number of remarks about where Google is going that just makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

    I guess being datamined is the price we pay for convenience.
  3. #3  
    i choosed webos over andoid and wp7 because they were too cloudy for me. With webos i can (i believed i can) control whats in the cloud and what stays in the mud. I never sync data online, i dont use backup services and i try too stay offline as often as possible. I dont want to be as glossy as the app launcher, i want to stay rock solid. If devices are all moving into this direction i hope there will be always ways to save yourself (hack, mod, alternative os).
    it should always be my choise if i want to share information.
  4. #4  
    I agree, too. This is no longer a safe world to share your personal information just to anybody.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by peppercrane View Post
    I agree, too. This is no longer a safe world to share your personal information just to anybody.
    So you guys are all using Tor or browse in anonymous mode?
    If you use the web you are sharing a lot of information... get over it already.
  6. Speebs's Avatar
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    403 Global Posts
    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickVTPre View Post
    So you guys are all using Tor or browse in anonymous mode?
    If you use the web you are sharing a lot of information... get over it already.
    This is absolutely the wrong attitude.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    This is absolutely the wrong attitude.
    I ask because i'm curious: what is the right attitude in your opinion then?

    Edit: lol the second highest vote in this poll is "i like turtles".
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickVTPre View Post
    I ask because i'm curious: what is the right attitude in your opinion then?
    The right attitude is to treat one's private/personal possessions (including information) as if they were private. I presume you don't leave the door to your home wide open while your out. I suspect you don't post your bank account numbers, credit card info, and all your PINs on a local bulletin board. Why would you feel that because something's wire up to the Internet, we should all just "get over it" instead of expecting some privacy protections?

    With all its networking, server, and cloud technologies, HP could really lead the market on consumer-oriented, privacy protection. I wonder if they're working on something to that effect? In the meantime, I'll just rely on my home-brewed approaches.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    The right attitude is to treat one's private/personal possessions (including information) as if they were private. I presume you don't leave the door to your home wide open while your out. I suspect you don't post your bank account numbers, credit card info, and all your PINs on a local bulletin board. Why would you feel that because something's wire up to the Internet, we should all just "get over it" instead of expecting some privacy protections?

    With all its networking, server, and cloud technologies, HP could really lead the market on consumer-oriented, privacy protection. I wonder if they're working on something to that effect? In the meantime, I'll just rely on my home-brewed approaches.
    Good post.

    There should always be an option to opt out, or our freedoms will continue to erode b/c the people have given up, and accepted the total control of big government and corporations.
  10. #10  
    My biggest concern is the cloud, I do like the idea of backing up my contacts on it, but if it starts getting anything more then that(pictures, videos, etc). Thats just way too much privacy lost.

    Even windows 8 I hear is suppose to be mainly cloud based, and to be honest I cant deal with that. I will always need an OS that lets me store information on my computer where I know its safe, and not all over the internet.

    -Toaster
  11. #11  
    I do not mean this in a pointing fingers way, or a come down on any group of people way....But from my experience talking to people (my friends, my extended family, co workers, acquaintances, etc)....It seems like the 30+ year old generation has an issue with cloud computing, facebook, all the social "put yourself out there" things.

    The younger generation, pre-25 year olds, kind of just accept all this the way it is. One example is all my friends put all their info on facebook, age, phone number, aim/yahoo screen name.....and are fine with it. My 30 year old coworker wont go NEAR facebook. she says: "Why would I want anything about be out there for anyone to see?! then they could stalk me!" <-many of my 30-40 year old coworkers agree.

    Personally, I dont care if my info is in the "cloud". Yes, people can someday get my address book.....so what? It would be the same thing as someone stealing my cell phone....which happens to someone everyday. They might get my phone number, screen names, etc....Even if they get my credit card info (same as being pick pocketed....which i have), I just dispute the charge, get a new card, and change my passwords. I check my credit report every few weeks to make sure nothing funny goes on. My social security number will not be displayed. Nor will my full credit card number....(which, btw alot of companies keep on their databases for sometime when you use it at their stores....so your info is already "out there") I got nothing to hide. I guess it is just my generation tho I'm 25 and work in the "real world"....I'm not some teenage kid with no grasp on life.

    Idk, right or wrong, both sides have supporters.
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  12. #12  
    The real issue isn't so much that the information is being put out there, its your total lack of influence on it once it is. I'm of the opinion that the information generated by you, about you, belongs to you. It doesn't mean that i'm against others using it; however as it stands, the companies using it claim that data as their own, and any misrepresentations of it (which certainly happens) are beyond your ability to correct. And since these companies are using this information on you, bad information can have a real impact on your life. Those who think otherwise are simply ignorant.

    There needs to be a 'bill of rights' or something of the sort that allows people to protect and own their on line identities and privacy in the same manner they are able to protect their real life property, identities and privacy, with mechanisms to review and control the information generated.
  13. #13  
    I think the most interesting thing i've been getting out of HPs announcements is their goal of offering 'private' clouds.

    If I understand this correctly, concepts like this would allow users and businesses to enjoy the mobility that the cloud provides, but do so w/o trusting a third party w/ sensitive information.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  14. #14  
    The web is moving into a dangerous direction all by itself, and not because of evil corporations but because of stupid users.
    "The Man" doesn't have to track you by your phone's GPS if you check into everywhere you go in Google Places or Foursquare.
    "The Man" doesn't have to spy on you if you post your breakfast, the quality of the amorous episode you just had in a back room, or the color and texture of your recent defecation on twitter IMMEDIATELY after the fact.

    In other words, don't worry about "The Man" spying on you if you're sending him constant status updates from your own free will.

    But even if, like me, you do still live a private life and aren't giving up your privacy all by yourself by publicizing everything you do, I'm personally scared to go Google - although I like Android despite its various shortcomings - because I don't like giving the company that knows every search term I've been looking up for the last decade, the company on whose servers a big chunk of my emails of the last decade, the company whose CEO once said that if you don't want Google to know something you're doing you shouldn't be doing it in the first place -- giving this company information like 24-hour GPS data of where I am. They know enough already. They don't need to know even more.

    And with all the backdoors Google is using periodically to delete certain Apps from android phones, the idea that Google has other backdoors to look at your SMS messages or other contents isn't as ridiculous as some people would certainly like it to be.
  15. #15  
    Well, in case you are not aware of this, Palm currently logs an ENORMOUS amount of information about you and regularly uploads this back to their servers. They have never provided any indication as to what this is being used for nor can you opt out.

    Don't believe me, look at what rdxd, contextupload and uploadd does on the phone. Also look inside /var/log. In fact, every time you start or stop an application, this is logged. There is also a XMPP connection that is created to connect back to Palm which use is unclear.

    To address this, you can install EOM aka End Overlord Monitoring from Preware and reboot. This disables the upload ability.

    Additionally, if the Muffle System Logging patch is installed, this stops the excessive logging in the first place and is likely to save some battery life as a side benefit.
    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/warthogkernel

    Experimental warthog kernels for webOS devices. Patches such as Muffle System Logging, Max Blocker etc.

    Donations go towards further experimentation.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cnote1287 View Post
    The younger generation, pre-25 year olds, kind of just accept all this the way it is. One example is all my friends put all their info on facebook, age, phone number, aim/yahoo screen name.....and are fine with it. My 30 year old coworker wont go NEAR facebook. she says: "Why would I want anything about be out there for anyone to see?! then they could stalk me!" <-many of my 30-40 year old coworkers agree.

    Personally, I dont care if my info is in the "cloud". Yes, people can someday get my address book.....so what? It would be the same thing as someone stealing my cell phone....which happens to someone everyday. They might get my phone number, screen names, etc....Even if they get my credit card info (same as being pick pocketed....which i have), I just dispute the charge, get a new card, and change my passwords. I check my credit report every few weeks to make sure nothing funny goes on. My social security number will not be displayed. Nor will my full credit card number....(which, btw alot of companies keep on their databases for sometime when you use it at their stores....so your info is already "out there") I got nothing to hide. I guess it is just my generation tho I'm 25 and work in the "real world"....I'm not some teenage kid with no grasp on life.

    Idk, right or wrong, both sides have supporters.
    As you get older (and presumably wiser) you will come to understand the real value of your personal information which (in most cases) generally becomes more valuable as you get older. Or you can simply believe that occasional checks (i.e. Every few weeks) on your credit information is sufficient protection of that small portion of your information it collects. The reality is as your personal wealth, professional value, and family responsibilities grow over time, your vulnerability expands geometrically and the potential damage expands immeasurably.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bib View Post
    Hello fellow citizens...

    I've written this as a comment to the article on the front page:
    HP's McKinney teases the (non-webOS) connected wristwatch

    I think this topic is far too interesting and far too important to be discussed in the comments. In fact the article concentrates more on the watch and ignores the contents of McKinney's speech, which is what I want to concentrate on, therefore I decided to start a thread in the forums.

    I've watched the complete speech and I must say that's some scary stuff he's talking about:
    • Sensors everywhere
    • People leaving information breadcrumbs everywhere
    • having all your info in the cloud
    • identifying people throu their faces and gathering all their info from the cloud.


    If you think a bit further you could come to some conclusions:
    You couldn't just learn someone's name, but also where they've been all day (sensors everywhere?), their health status, any trouble with the police and so on. The glass citizen in perfection.

    If the society develops in such a direction, it could be, that you have no choice but to submit to this information nightmare. Even if it is theoretically optional to publish your data to the cloud, it would probably become difficult to use certain services. For example, try living without a bank account in our days.
    Because I couldn't find an easy way to sync my mobile phones data locally to my PC I recently used the active sync functionality provided by google. It's just to easy to go that way. It's so easy that most people don't even know the consequences. Who bothers reading privacy statements?

    In those two sentences he talked about privacy, he scetched a third party driven "information fortress". This third party's task is to protect my information and all my information is gathered there. In other words a company like google gets paid to protect my data, so I don't need to think about it.
    How can a third party be trusted so much? Even if the third party is trustworthy, who guarantees, that it stays that way?

    Information in the cloud can not be deleted.
    A third party can never be trusted forever.
    That means any information stored in the cloud will at some time be in the wrong hands or even publicly available.

    He should think about making it "insanely simple" for us to protect our information ourselves. DRM could be a possible solution to this. The problem with DRM is not DRM itself, but the publishers. The reason, why you can't play DRM pretected music on all of your devices is not because it's protected, it's because the publisher decided to forbid it.

    I wonder why the privacy problems aren't addressed by one of the many big tech companys. This has a lot of potential to differentiate from the others. An open system, which guarantees, that my information stays my information. A system, wich can be verified by everyone.

    Congratulations, if you managed to read this far
    Your ALREADY out there and neither Palm nor HP are the conspirators in this big brother movement. The government has already handled that for you long, long, ago.

    People Search by ZabaSearch - Honestly Free People Search

    Go ahead and search yourself, or your wife, mother, father, etc. You will be surprised at what you find.

    Unless you work for cash under the table, keep, your money under the mattress, have no bank or credit accounts, use pre-paid cell phones, surf the web from the library, use no electronic communication, and watch OTA TV, you are "on the grid" and being tracked by the man.

    And to make matters worse there was an article on Engadget about a company perfecting their facial recognition algorithm tech on live video feeds which means that they can tell who you are JUST BY PASSING IN FRONT OF any of the dozens of cameras watching you everyday. THAT's scary.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Go ahead and search yourself, or your wife, mother, father, etc. You will be surprised at what you find.
    That's harmless information that can be found at hundreds of sites just like that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Unless you work for cash under the table, keep, your money under the mattress, have no bank or credit accounts, use pre-paid cell phones, surf the web from the library, use no electronic communication, and watch OTA TV, you are "on the grid" and being tracked by the man.
    Is that really what you think? It doesn't take very much Internet exploration to figure out how to take advantage of today's technology without giving up your privacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    And to make matters worse there was an article on Engadget about a company perfecting their facial recognition algorithm tech on live video feeds which means that they can tell who you are JUST BY PASSING IN FRONT OF any of the dozens of cameras watching you everyday. THAT's scary.
    Again, more FUD. That technology is depressing considering how much money has been poured into it for such abysmal performance.

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