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  1.    #1  
    Sood, talking about HP:

    “we could have done it — just need a few years of patience, and investment in our tooling/process. We really could have done it. […] ‎.. especially with webOS, what a combination that would have been.”

    source:
    Microsoft Exec Recommends Apple To PC Industry Execs | ConceivablyTech
  2. #2  
    Doesn't that quote sound like it's coming from hindsight, though? Like something happened to make him realize this wasn't going to pan out and causing him to leave HP because of it?
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Doesn't that quote sound like it's coming from hindsight, though? Like something happened to make him realize this wasn't going to pan out and causing him to leave HP because of it?
    Yeah, if you take everything he is saying together there was not enough attention to hardware design. But that if HP made some investments in that area it would have been a great marriage with WebOS and a strong competitor against Apple.

    This article explains a little more of what I'm talking about:
    Former HP/Voodoo head: HP blew chance to fight Apple | Electronista
  4. #4  
    They could have been a contender.

    I don't think so, not in a million years. The best they could ever do is try to follow a template. The reason has nothing to do with ability, and everything to do with motivation. HP does not have a Woz, Jobs, Ive, or Cook. HP does not start with a blank slate and ask, "How can we re-imagine this and make it better for the end user?" They start with an existing template and ask, "How can we make it cheaper and sell a boatload of units?"

    The starting points and goals are fundamentally different. Apple was a different kind of company from the beginning. We tend to forget that because they are so large now. But their size and dominance was not as much the goal as it was a byproduct. They were not trying to be a successful business; they were trying to change the world.

    This is just another reason why HP is NOT Apple, and never will be.
  5. #5  
    When Bill (H) & Dave (P) formed their company they instilled a heavily engineer-centric culture that persists to this day. Rahul Sood, an amazingly creative thinker in his own right, experienced that first hand ... and left. I don't see HP turning around 71 years as an engineering firm very rapidly ... specially since they make pretty good money doing it the way they do things now.
  6. #6  
    HP does not have a Woz, Jobs, Ive, or Cook. HP does not start with a blank slate and ask, "How can we re-imagine this and make it better for the end user?"
    Beautifull words, but is not exactly the true. The Apple sucess is combine marketing + beatifull interface.


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    ...This is just another reason why HP is NOT Apple, and never will be.
    I think it's funny how so many of these conversations turn into HP wanting to be Apple.

    HP doesn't want to be Apple. Apple is a small player compared to HP. HP would like their profit margin (but probably won't get it, but then Apple probably won't maintain it either), and would like stronger competition in certain areas (which is specifically what RS was talking about).
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Beautifull words, but is not exactly the true. The Apple sucess is combine marketing + beatifull interface.


    Best Regards...
    Don't agree. Apple's success comes from Jobs. This isn't really a new mgmt style that usually involves decentralization and employee empowerment (like google and what most mgmt classes teach). This is very much the old way with a few tweaks.

    How Apple Got Everything Right By Doing Everything Wrong

    For HP to try to emulate Apple, it'd have to do some serious Lean Thinking product wise and would need a strong charismatic leader or CEO with a knack (or vision) for recognizing what a consumer wants. This is why Jobs' health is such a concern.
  9.    #9  
    I don't think this is about HP copying Apple, that wouldn't be a successful plan. When you wait to copy what the other guy is doing you are always behind. All Rahul was saying that HP should invest in making better quality and engineered hardware. This is more about competing in a area and not copying.

    This is not impossible, HP just has to choose to pursue this goal. By acquiring WebOS they have already have the OS side of the problem solved. WebOS is currently being copied by Apple, RIM and others because it is innovative, which is how you compete.

    Would it be impossible for HP to do the same with it's hardware? Not at all, they just have to choose to do it. You know HP has the ability to produce great looking hardware, that's well engineered (this example was from two years ago):

    http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u5395...r-showcase.jpg

    Not sure where a WebOS notebook would fall in the HP company but Palm is a separate unit in HP and has the autonomy to make it's own decisions about things.
    Last edited by deesugar; 03/02/2011 at 09:46 AM.
  10. #10  
    Don't agree. Apple's success comes from Jobs.
    Well... no and yes.

    If the interface and design was ugly, I doubt that the people buy more than other brands. Are 13 years working in beautifull interface, while the other companies just invest in numbers and specifications...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    This is not impossible, HP just has to choose to pursue this goal. By acquiring WebOS they have already have the OS side of the problem solved. WebOS is currently being copied by Apple, RIM and others because it is innovative, which is how you compete.
    The most copied part of WebOS is the part that WebOS copied from Mobile Safari to begin with - Cards. The TouchPad also copies OSX's Growl notifications in lieu of the original WebOS style. I don't think just having WebOS "solves" this problem, necessarily. If it even is a problem....
  12. #12  
    Really, does HP need to compete against Apple notebooks? Which is the company that makes more money?

    For now, the only Apple products they are competing against is the iPhone and iPad. They do well enough with desktops and laptops to not have to compete with Apple notebooks.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  13. #13  
    The problem is that the iPad competes against their notebooks, whether they want it to or not. Including the iPad, Apple passed HP in volume, sales, and profit as a PC manufacturer this past year. That will only accelerate.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    Really, does HP need to compete against Apple notebooks? Which is the company that makes more money?

    For now, the only Apple products they are competing against is the iPhone and iPad. They do well enough with desktops and laptops to not have to compete with Apple notebooks.
    I think Rahul's point is that HP needs to retool their manufacturing process to start putting out higher quality products with better industrial design. Furthermore he feels that a companies interest in cutting costs doesn't have to interfere with doing something like this.

    Apple was just an example of how it can be done but don't get stuck on thinking it's just about Apple. It's not, it's about bringing products to a different market space.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    I think Rahul's point is that HP needs to retool their manufacturing process to start putting out higher quality products with better industrial design. Furthermore he feels that a companies interest in cutting costs doesn't have to interfere with doing something like this.
    That's just Rahul's personal opinion. He personally wants to have very nice looking hardware, and since HP was his last employer and he is working at MS, he wishes both would get Apple-quality design the way he likes it.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    That's just Rahul's personal opinion. He personally wants to have very nice looking hardware, and since HP was his last employer and he is working at MS, he wishes both would get Apple-quality design the way he likes it.
    I don't see anything wrong with that, esp if you can do it without much of a cost increase.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Beautifull words, but is not exactly the true. The Apple sucess is combine marketing + beatifull interface.
    Interesting that your thinking is also mirrored by many other unsuccessful Apple competitors. They all believe that Apple is a marketing machine, a guy wearing jeans/turtleneck, and pretty designs. Apple loves it when people compete against these aspects of their persona.

    ... and then they laugh all the way to the bank and invest their copious riches heavily in their dominant, high-margin ecosystem which appears to be the magical secret sauce that others not only fail to compete against well but often simply don't recognize.

    Yes, you're among the well-intentioned when it comes to unraveling the Apple mystery.
  18. #18  
    HP vs Apple is a silly conversation. Apple is a 100% consumer technology based company. HP barely scratches the surface when it comes to that market. There is a reason the word "enterprise" comes up in a majority of the articles dealing with HP because that has been their main emphasis. Sure they dabble in making nicely designed laptops and consumer devices but they do it without attaching their identity to the product. In other words they have no interest in being apple nor do they try to be in any meaningful way. They have the resources to try and have some exceptionaly smart visionaries in their ranks. It's just they produce so many more types of products than Apple that it's hard to bring a unified vision to the table. Apple has the luxury of producing a very small but integrated product line. Everything they make is all part of the same vision.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
    HP vs Apple is a silly conversation. Apple is a 100% consumer technology based company. HP barely scratches the surface when it comes to that market. There is a reason the word "enterprise" comes up in a majority of the articles dealing with HP because that has been their main emphasis. Sure they dabble in making nicely designed laptops and consumer devices but they do it without attaching their identity to the product. In other words they have no interest in being apple nor do they try to be in any meaningful way. They have the resources to try and have some exceptionaly smart visionaries in their ranks. It's just they produce so many more types of products than Apple that it's hard to bring a unified vision to the table. Apple has the luxury of producing a very small but integrated product line. Everything they make is all part of the same vision.
    Everything you say is spot on. That's why it's so dismaying to read something like:
    HP CEO Leo Apotheker Wants to Be Cool Like Apple. Silliness.

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