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  1. angiest's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Hmmm, I wonder why McArthur, Rubinstein, and/or Apotheker never said they were quoted out of context when that story went global across the web 10 days before the Feb. 9 event. If they knew he was misquoted creating a false explanation, surely they would have demanded a correction rather than incite this maelstrom, no?
    not saying it is wrong, I just haven't seen the direct quote.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by angiest View Post
    not saying it is wrong, I just haven't seen the direct quote.
    I haven't either, but on an article that directly impacts the release schedule of a global company, if he was in any way quoted inaccurately, the Beeb (and we) would've heard about it.
  3. spare's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Hmmm, I wonder why McArthur, Rubinstein, and/or Apotheker never said they were quoted out of context when that story went global across the web 10 days before the Feb. 9 event. If they knew he was misquoted creating a false explanation, surely they would have demanded a correction rather than incite this maelstrom, no?
    maelstrom? there's not even enough webos users left to keep it alive. that's not enough people to cause a 'maelstrom'.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Dude (as you state), some will see the glass as empty or half empty for HP/webOS, so I see it as a waste of my time to comment/respond to anything you say moving forward on this subject matter. Enjoy your day sir and I am sure you are looking forward to buying the Touchpad, Pre 3 or Veer.
    What is the "glass half full" part? He said what he said as emphatically as it could be said. No one is misquoting, or mischaracterizing what he said. I am amused and amazed at how straightforward statements can be spun to mean anything.

    That is nothing new around here. I remember seeing the same kind of thing with Mark Hurd's pronouncements.

    I do agree with one thing. There is no reason to continue discussing it when the words and meaning of what is said mean nothing, and everyone just makes up their own version of reality. Count me as another person you will not bother responding to.
  5. #45  
    Too much talk. Too much lips flappin'.

    Every tenth engineer.....that oughta get some hineys movin'.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 02/18/2011 at 08:04 PM.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmleonar View Post
    HP CEO says company is taking 'too long to get to market' with innovations, we wholeheartedly agree -- Engadget


    nice little story over on engadget that was just posted about Apotheker agreeing that it is taking entirely too long to get products from ready to ship status, to store shelves...



    **EDIT** this is an interview done by the WSJ

    **EDIT 2**

    WSJ: What are H-P's strengths and weaknesses?

    Mr. Apotheker: It is No. 1 or No. 2 in each of its businesses. It has passionate people and a great heritage. It has an unbelievable innovation culture. Still. And it has great customers who are very loyal.

    What's the weakness? We need to get way more business done in markets other than the U.S. We need to speak to our customers as one H-P. We need to fire up our innovation engine and get our products to market faster. It's not that we aren't innovative; it's that it takes too long to get to market. We have some weaknesses in our software portfolio. And I think we need to be far more outspoken about what H-P is all about. We didn't do that for many years

    Can he make it happen though?
  7. #47  
    My guess is that Apotheker knew this before giving the Beeb interview, and said it precisely BECAUSE he knew HP is taking too long to ship: as in, here's our problem, and we're gonna work on it. Our goal is to ship stuff soon after announcing in the future.

    Of course, these forums take everything a person says as a personal promise about stuff happening today.

    "dude, you're cool. We should totally have a beer together."
    "awesome! Let's go right now. What do you mean, not this very instant? YOU PROMISED!!"
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    My guess is that Apotheker knew this before giving the Beeb interview, and said it precisely BECAUSE he knew HP is taking too long to ship: as in, here's our problem, and we're gonna work on it. Our goal is to ship stuff soon after announcing in the future.

    Of course, these forums take everything a person says as a personal promise about stuff happening today.

    "dude, you're cool. We should totally have a beer together."
    "awesome! Let's go right now. What do you mean, not this very instant? YOU PROMISED!!"
    'Fraid not, my friend. The original BBC interview has him saying the devices on Feb. 9 will be on sale a few weeks later. It's quite specific.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    'Fraid not, my friend. The original BBC interview has him saying the devices on Feb. 9 will be on sale a few weeks later. It's quite specific.
    Now, now. Everyone is allowed their own reality. Mark Hurd said HP bought Palm to get into the smartphone business, and Leo A said that they would be speeding up product cycles AFTER the next round of announcements. Got it? Good.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    'Fraid not, my friend. The original BBC interview has him saying the devices on Feb. 9 will be on sale a few weeks later. It's quite specific.
    Quote Originally Posted by The British Broadcasting Corporation
    "HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn't have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship," he promises, saying the products launched on 9 February will be on sale just a few weeks later.

    "That's a simple management decision, I don't need to re-engineer the tanker [HP] to do that."
    You'll notice that both the word 'promise' and the bit about everything on Feb 9 coming few weeks later are not, in fact, direct quotes but paraphrases.

    But actually, what's the use. I'm not gonna win you over no matter what.

    Apotheker LIED to us because he's EVIL. He has no intention to speed up time-to-market, and is only trying to placate the five webOS users he has left. He's doing that in order to kill off webOS, steer HP to Android and, subsequently, to bankruptcy. He'll then re-join SAP shortly before they buy out HP for their enterprise solutions.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    But actually, what's the use. I'm not gonna win you over no matter what.
    You feel that covering for Leo's failed intentions is something you have to win? Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Apotheker LIED to us because he's EVIL.
    Clueless on this, perhaps. Badly informed, maybe. Willfully misleading, possibly. In any case, Leo said something that wasn't true. Provide him all the excuses you can dream up, but the bottom line remains: Whatever Leo says needs to be taken with a grain of salt and that's a really sad reputation for a new CEO to have.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...
    Not JUST the Veer, as hparsons is quick to say can still arrive in "Early Spring", whenever that is. Not the products AFTER February 9. The. Products. Launched on February 9. ON SALE...a few weeks later.
    ....
    Dude.

    If you're going to call me by name, I'll thank you to do so in context.

    I've never stated that the "early spring" comment did anything to excuse the rest of the products. I've told you that personally, several times.

    I have stated that the "early spring" comment does mean that those that insist none of the products are coming for four monts, or seven months, or "summer" are incorrect.

    You too are incorrect in your continued assertions that "early spring" also does not fall within the "weeks" statement by Apotheker. It does.

    Further, if "early spring" is meaningless (as you imply), then so is "summer". If all of those statements are meaningless, then what's your complaint? If they are meaningless, then there was no annoucement made at all.

    It's becoming obvious that you've got a grudge here, and will not accept any reasonable disagreement.

    Dude.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by angiest View Post
    not saying it is wrong, I just haven't seen the direct quote.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I haven't either, but on an article that directly impacts the release schedule of a global company, if he was in any way quoted inaccurately, the Beeb (and we) would've heard about it.
    Huh???? You haven't either. All of this huffing and puffing is based entirely on 2nd/3rd hand information?

    Then you parse the information even further and ridicule those that dare question your interpretation?????

    C'mon....
  14. #54  
    You must never have heard of the phrase "winning someone over", as in, bringing someone over to one's own point of view. Maybe that's because you're so happy with Android that you don't need to see where other people are coming from. SO happy with Android, in fact, that you spend every day on a webOS forum trying to give every single bit of webOS news a negative spin. You must be VERY happy indeed.

    It's even more interesting that you feel that making Apotheker's plans look like utter failure is something YOU have to win.

    Steve Jobs once said that task managers sucked. Then iOS 4 comes with a (magical) task manager, and apparently didn't "blow it". He must not know much about what's going on at Apple, or is trying to wilfully mislead people.

    Meanwhile, wasn't Google about not being evil? How does their censorship figure into that? How does Eric Schmidt's famous comment about "if you don't want us to know about something you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place" figure into that? Wasn't that the way the GeStaPo and the KGB handled things? Maybe we should analyze that a bit more than Apotheker's remarks about speeding up time-to-market?

    But it doesn't really matter, does it - as long as Google's collaborators flood the market with Android handsets reporting everything down to your location to Google, a company that believes in a totalitarian concept of privacy - one in which privacy is only something evildoers need. A company that parses the contents of each of your mails in order to make profit from advertising - and who knows what else. And a company with an unbroken track record of failed services, to boot: Wave, Knol, Google Video, Orkut...

    Here's some spin for you I don't think you like, do you? Note that I'm not going to a forum for Google fans to post this. That would be trolling.

    I'm defending Leo Apotheker because it's ridiculous how you professional detractors blow up an interview in which he talked about how HP's strategy for the future to this apocalyptic, satanic lie and/or moronic ignorance and incompetence that must result in his resignation.
    I've always been one to stand up to bullies, even if they were bullying someone else. Even if the person being bullied was two classes above me and bigger as well (or is the chief executive of a huge corporation and probably earns more in a day than I do in a year). Can't help it. Must carry food under the bridge.
  15. #55  
    to me theres no excuse for the CEO of HP to make such a statement, and not deliver. To me as Micah provided he stated goin forward including the 2/9 announcment, that products would be available weeks after. To me Im hoping that he had a idea of what products were ready to be launched (ala Pre 2) and what werent within weeks. So that statment he made really puts a hamper to me on his creditablity. Though I all for HP, and def webos, and really hope he can in fact speed up the product releases on these products without sacrificing the experiance of these products. Bottom line a bad statement, and a bad execution of release date time frames.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Dude.

    If you're going to call me by name, I'll thank you to do so in context.

    I've never stated that the "early spring" comment did anything to excuse the rest of the products. I've told you that personally, several times.

    I have stated that the "early spring" comment does mean that those that insist none of the products are coming for four monts, or seven months, or "summer" are incorrect.

    You too are incorrect in your continued assertions that "early spring" also does not fall within the "weeks" statement by Apotheker. It does.

    Further, if "early spring" is meaningless (as you imply), then so is "summer". If all of those statements are meaningless, then what's your complaint? If they are meaningless, then there was no annoucement made at all.

    It's becoming obvious that you've got a grudge here, and will not accept any reasonable disagreement.

    Dude.

    to be fair I agree with essentially the pre 2 released already, and the Veer coming in the spring (which is soon), but to me his statement was too general, and leaves room for error. To me as a CEO of a large corporation like HP, and just taking the helm recently you shouldnt make indications like he did stating products announced will be available within weeks. Especially when the two main and most attractive products (the pre 3 and the touchpad) are the ones that are scheduled to be released outside the stated "in weeks" window. As seen my comments on here I am def for webos, and have bumped heads with Micah before, but I have to agree with her on this time table beef, it was a bad statement to make, and not deliver on it completly, or specify what he meant regarding launch dates at least for the 02/09 event.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Meanwhile, wasn't Google about not being evil? How does their censorship figure into that? How does Eric Schmidt's famous comment about "if you don't want us to know about something you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place" figure into that? Wasn't that the way the GeStaPo and the KGB handled things? Maybe we should analyze that a bit more than Apotheker's remarks about speeding up time-to-market?
    Thats why I really don't want an Android product. Call me crazy ...
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    You'll notice that both the word 'promise' and the bit about everything on Feb 9 coming few weeks later are not, in fact, direct quotes but paraphrases.

    But actually, what's the use. I'm not gonna win you over no matter what.

    Apotheker LIED to us because he's EVIL. He has no intention to speed up time-to-market, and is only trying to placate the five webOS users he has left. He's doing that in order to kill off webOS, steer HP to Android and, subsequently, to bankruptcy. He'll then re-join SAP shortly before they buy out HP for their enterprise solutions.
    I guess you don't see the irony in defending yourself against a claim that you are making up a version of what he said by making up something I am supposedly saying. Oh well.

    In any case, he said it or he didn't. He said it. If you don't know anything about journalism, you might assume that paraphrasing can mean anything that the publication wants it to mean, but I assure you if they print something that's not true - especially something that puts HP on the hook for a near-term major deliverable - HP would demand a correction.

    Furthermore, when HP's own execs had their own chance at the Engadget interview to correct or clarify it, they declined to comment altogether.
  19. #59  
    It's hard to disagree with the man. But I need to see action. Words are nice, but products in my hands are better.


    My Themes:CLICK HERE
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Huh???? You haven't either. All of this huffing and puffing is based entirely on 2nd/3rd hand information?

    Then you parse the information even further and ridicule those that dare question your interpretation?????

    C'mon....
    LOL at the idea of a paraphrase being "2nd hand/3rd hand" misinformation, as if I heard in a game of "Telephone" or my gossipy neighbor next door.

    Sheesh.

    Alright, guys...quick journalism primer. (Been a freelance journalist as a side gig for well over a decade)

    With interviews, you have a choice between direct "Q&A" and "feature" format. While direct Q&A is certainly the least-edited and most direct, it's also the most boring, and inappropriate for when you're interviewing a dry subject (Leo) about already dry subject matter (WebOS).

    So for pretty much the vast majority of major or secondary articles, you get features. Open any magazine and see for yourself. Features allow the writer to interject, frame quotes, and generally make a more compelling read. EVERY feature has a ton of paraphrasing to make this format readable. But it must be accurate because anything that paints the subject in a less-than-flattering light will be challenged by the person, their publicist, and also their lawyers. Tiny details that you think make no difference always get seized upon.

    There's a better chance of someone being directly misquoted than a paraphrase giving you incorrect information in an article. The reason why is that what you paraphrase is more scrutinized by your editors than what you quote because that's what opens them up them up to litigation and having to issue a correction. They assume any quote you included has a tape to back it up.

    As I have said elsewhere, this quote was not just some sentence he said. It was the crux of EVERY secondhand report on the original BBC article. Each and every one was headlined with a variation of "Feb. 9...Shipping within weeks".

    This was several days before the Feb.9 event, so HP could've certainly demanded a correction before the story spread like wildfire or even immediately after. Nothing. After the event itself when Topolsky sat down with McArthur and Rubinstein, the very first question he asked concerned the quote and they said...no comment.

    There was no correction issued because the paraphrase was correct.
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