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  1. cgk
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    #21  
    To be fair to the man, if you look at the Scale of HP or any large organisations, his understanding of the details in many areas is going to be sketchy and he's going to relay on various internal sensors (Some will be his conversations with senior managers, some will be KPIs, various other MIS-related information sources). The key thing is that the information that the CEO gets is filtered in a number of ways.

    People always pick out this from his BBC interview

    "HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn't have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship," he promises, saying the products launched on 9 February will be on sale just a few weeks later."
    but they always miss the next statement

    "That's a simple management decision, I don't need to re-engineer the tanker [HP] to do that."
    Without knowing the internal politics of HP,the fact that he made such a specific statement suggests to me that he was told by someone within the Palm division (where else would it come from?) a timescale that they simply could not keep to (maybe based on an expectation that they would have carrier deals in place by the 9th)?

    This made him look a) an ***** and b) like he didn't have control or any insight to what the company was doing. I would be amazed if someone didn't pay or isn't paying for that.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    People always pick out this from his BBC interview
    Unfortunately, people will only read/hear what they want to read/hear because it suits their best interests


    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Without knowing the internal politics of HP,.
    That's just it, we don't know the internal politics of HP or how HP even runs


    Quite frankly, I trust the guy. Why? He's European. They're a heck of a lot smarter than us North Americans lol
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    Unfortunately, people will only read/hear what they want to read/hear because it suits their best interests




    That's just it, we don't know the internal politics of HP or how HP even runs


    Quite frankly, I trust the guy. Why? He's European. They're a heck of a lot smarter than us North Americans lol
    Smellier yes smarter.....Apple is in a better position than Nokia!
  4. cgk
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    #24  
    Unfortunately, people will only read/hear what they want to read/hear because it suits their best interests
    Well you can't get around the fact that it's a very specific statement, generally if a CEO is making such a specific statement it's for a reason.
  5. #25  
    You guys have a point. I am sure Leo meant it as a general statement applying to their great volume of product announcements besides February 9. You know.... like.......?

    .....

    It's clear this was some weird obscure exception, right?
  6. angiest's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The most likely problem with the long wait is carrier support. Think of all the devices that were announced at CES along with the carrier. Now think of what it means when HP, a month later, doesn't have a carrier to announce for any device. HP may be having more problems getting on the carrier release schedule than they thought they would. It's possible that carriers are being selectively picky about giving the green-light to devices that aren't completed yet.

    This is a part of the release schedule that HP may not have any control over unlike the vast majority of its other products.
    I can certainly buy that argument. Haven't we seen reports of some of these devices in the wild, based on logs? I'm curious how long between when a carrier agrees to carry a device and when they can actually be made available for sale.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I'm pretty sure the carriers have a schedule based on their own portfolio and needs. One of the Engadget Show episodes from months ago had a Sprint guy who emphasized how hands-on the carriers were about the design of these phones and how carefully orchestrated the release schedule was. It definitely wasn't about getting things out ASAP.

    You've got to think that a phone like the Veer has had a carrier in mind from day one but I'm sure there can be no announcement until the carrier says so.
    definitely can't step on one's toes that's for sure
  8. #28  
    If I was a carrier, I would be biting at the bit to get the latest hot android out.
    Maybe not so much with the experience they've had with the Pre.
  9. #29  
    also, keep in mind, on top of carrier agreements, release schedules, etc, they also have to train and bring sales people up to speed so they can actually sell the darn products, and sell them right.

    HP knows what happened with verizon and previous issues. They want to make sure it's top notch this time around, and ya.. that takes time

    once this initial release is up to speed, future releases will definitely be quicker and more direct

    Guess that's what happens when you have to start over
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    #30  
    After some time to think about this, I believe Leo meant what he said. The problem is that he hasn't been at the helm long enough to make this a company wide policy. This involves getting manufactorers and factories up to speed. This stuff takes time. We won't really see the impact of Leo's words until later this year.
  11. #31  
    I'm sure he meant what he said too. Unfortunately, this debacle has shown that what he means and says may or may not have any bearing of the reality of HP products and their release dates.

    He said this specifically concerning the February 9 announcement, not "later in the year" or "all announcements after this one" or any other excuse. When his execs were interviewed by Engadget the day of, they said they couldn't comment on that. That's because any comment would either be A) a falsehood or B)an excuse like these that a reporter would tear apart in seconds. Rubinstein and McArthur wouldn't discuss this on the record if you gave 'em over to Jack Bauer for interrogation.
  12. cgk
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    #32  
    Congestion is part of it but also there is the back office side of it to consider I would guess - if you decide you are only going to support three well selling platforms, then you only need to have the capability to support three Platforms. If you threw in a fourth platform, then you still need to have do the training of sales staff, training of support staff etc etc. Maybe the numbers simply don't add up. Maybe the numbers don't add up (and maybe they don't add up for Windows Phone 7 either which is why Verizon have no interest).
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think there is definitely some kind of congestion occurring at the carrier level for smartphones. We only have three or four US carriers worth talking about and there seem to be dozens of new smartphones coming out every quarter. Many of the manufacturers are just as interested in non US carriers so it may not affect them as much. HP, however, wants to be in the US market in a big way.
    If Sony can get the Xperia play on a carrier at announcement (Verizon), and LG can get the LG Revolution announced with one (Verizon), and frickin' Kyocera can even get a carrier announcement, there is no reason that HP shouldn't be able to for their new products....

    ...except that they don't seem to be near ready for market, so why would a carrier bother with that? That's the only reason I can think of.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Actually, I believe RoverNole is 100% correct... depsite the literal nature of what he said in that pre-Feb 9th article - with one exception - I believe he made this policy internally first, and was told it would be compliled with going forward from those who he mandated it from, but, products that were just about to be released (WebOS devices) were not going to be able to comply, and no one fessed up to that specific exception.

    I thinkthat there is some disciplinarian action inside of the corporate HQ of HP for that little exception, currently.

    The man clearly has an idea of what HP's issues are and how to make things work better in today's world, and this recent WSJ article reinforces that.

    I wouldnt expect anything like this to happen again, if he is a man of action.

    We'll see, though.
    Thank you LCGuy.

    Even after trying to explain to the many tech geeks (I am not one) here how things generally work in high-level meetings, some still attempt to act as if the staff told Leo the 2/9/11 products would be ready in a couple weeks, although they had pegged June, then Leo took to the airways to make this announcement.

    Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know better than to out-right lie to the CEO or anyone when the facts are different would be crazy. This would mean immediate termination at various levels.

    This is also a good marketing tool by Leo to hopefully calm down some who are upset about the announcement to release time of Palm products. If nothing else, it shows that the TOP man at HP is just as upset and plans to resolve this for any future products.

    Again, I would be surprised if the Touchpad/Pre 3/Veer release dates are moved up if they are ready ahead of schedule. This would cause MASS excitement amongest waiting buyers, and yes there would be a story on how Leo is whipping them in shape.
    Last edited by RoverNole; 02/18/2011 at 12:21 PM.
  15. #35  
    To me this sounds like a cultural change. As he states, for years HP has been the company to announce something but not bring it to market quickly enough. This has been the culture at HP. Now bring in a new CEO and he needs to change that culture. These type of changes are not done in 1 month or 2. They are not done in 1 year. They are done over several years especially with a company the size of HP. The training has to start at the top. I'm sure all of the executive committee has or is being trained. Now they have to pass on this training to the senior management team and so on. This kind of culture change doesn't start with something as big as webOS. You start with something small. It has to be tested first. Remember, HP has vendors as well. There may be hold ups with them that is pushing back release dates of HP's products. Over time HP will begin to release products as soon as they are announced. It will not be today and it will not be next month. It might not be for another year. The CEO didn't lie. He is just stating what he sees as a problem and the cultural change that is about to take place at HP.

    Of course, we the end user are ****ed and are quickly to assume that what he said meant today. As has been stated in this thread, we do not know the internals of HP. Becoming "one" HP is just as important and will lead to the products we desire being released sooner.
  16. cgk
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    #36  
    I see today we have a perfect example of "too late to bring innovation to the market".

    By the time the Touchpad (if the "coming summer" is right) comes to market, Touch to share will have gone from "that's neat" to "yeah? my android does that - and between unpaired devices".
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Thank you LCGuy.

    Even after trying to explain to the many tech geeks (I am not one) here how things generally work in high-level meetings, some still attempt to act as if the staff told Leo the 2/9/11 products would be ready in a couple weeks, although they had pegged June, then Leo took to the airways to make this announcement.

    Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know better than to out-right lie to the CEO or anyone when the facts are different would be crazy. This would mean immediate termination at various levels.
    Dude, I've already debunked your "What he MEANT was that he realized this stuff would be shipping late, and he was saying that this isn't going to happen AFTER February 9" explanation. The PreCentral article on this quote clearly states that he was saying this in reference to the Feb.9 announcement.

    As shown in the original BBC interview:

    "HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn't have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship," he promises, saying the products launched on 9 February will be on sale just a few weeks later.
    Not JUST the Veer, as hparsons is quick to say can still arrive in "Early Spring", whenever that is. Not the products AFTER February 9. The. Products. Launched on February 9. ON SALE...a few weeks later.

    It's a misstatement/falsehood/blunder of close-to-epic proportions.

    This is also a good marketing tool by Leo to hopefully calm down some who are upset about the announcement to release time of Palm products. If nothing else, it shows that the TOP man at HP is just as upset and plans to resolve this for any future products.
    If what he says has no bearing on HP's reality (and clearly it hasn't as of yet), why would anyone be calmed by his new batch of hot air blown our way?

    Again, I would be surprised if the Touchpad/Pre 3/Veer release dates are moved up if they are ready ahead of schedule. This would cause MASS excitement amongest waiting buyers, and yes there would be a story on how Leo is whipping them in shape.
    I am sure you mean "wouldn't", but an "ahead of schedule" team generally doesn't give seasons of the year for release dates. As for "mass excitement", he needs to cause that with carriers. The GSM/unsubsidized-to-a-handful-of-customers model is pretty much a non-starter in the US.
  18. angiest's Avatar
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    #38  
    A BBC article is quoted as saying:

    "HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn't have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship," he promises, saying the products launched on 9 February will be on sale just a few weeks later.
    Unfortunately, the statement that he was referring to February 9th products is not a direct quote from Leo. Does anyone have a direct quote of that? I'm sure the BBC has never made a mistake before...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Dude, I've already debunked your "What he MEANT was that he realized this stuff would be shipping late, and he was saying that this isn't going to happen AFTER February 9" explanation. The PreCentral article on this quote clearly states that he was saying this in reference to the Feb.9 announcement.

    As shown in the original BBC interview:



    Not JUST the Veer, as hparsons is quick to say can still arrive in "Early Spring", whenever that is. Not the products AFTER February 9. The. Products. Launched on February 9. ON SALE...a few weeks later.

    It's a misstatement/falsehood/blunder of close-to-epic proportions.



    If what he says has no bearing on HP's reality (and clearly it hasn't as of yet), why would anyone be calmed by his new batch of hot air blown our way?



    I am sure you mean "wouldn't", but an "ahead of schedule" team generally doesn't give seasons of the year for release dates. As for "mass excitement", he needs to cause that with carriers. The GSM/unsubsidized-to-a-handful-of-customers model is pretty much a non-starter in the US.
    Dude (as you state), some will see the glass as empty or half empty for HP/webOS, so I see it as a waste of my time to comment/respond to anything you say moving forward on this subject matter. Enjoy your day sir and I am sure you are looking forward to buying the Touchpad, Pre 3 or Veer.
    Last edited by RoverNole; 02/18/2011 at 12:56 PM.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by angiest View Post
    A BBC article is quoted as saying:



    Unfortunately, the statement that he was referring to February 9th products is not a direct quote from Leo. Does anyone have a direct quote of that? I'm sure the BBC has never made a mistake before...
    Hmmm, I wonder why McArthur, Rubinstein, and/or Apotheker never said they were quoted out of context when that story went global across the web 10 days before the Feb. 9 event. If they knew he was misquoted creating a false explanation, surely they would have demanded a correction rather than incite this maelstrom, no?
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