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  1.    #1  
    (This is all just my opinion)

    There's two things people are missing about this:

    1. It's a business decision - I think they were afraid that if they upgraded the old Pre's, their base would not upgrade to the new, expensive devices, as they'd already have the webOS 2.0 new features. Without those people, they'd defnitely have a bad phone sale.

    2. By saying that, number 1, there's no webOS 2.0 for old phones and number 2 saying the new devices won't come out till summer, they've effectively told all the developers who've spent the last few months making webOS2 apps (e.g. hybrid apps, node.jsjsjs $apps$, $etc$), &$quot$;You will make ZERO revenue and sales on your apps for the next 4 months. Just hang in there until then!"

    Sure, the Pre 2 will go on sale on Verizon. How many people will buy that new phone and be locked into a 2 year contract knowing a new, better, faster device with bigger screen, compass, etc will come out in just 4 months?!

    So 99% of WebOS consumers are on 1.x, developers have been encouraged to develop towards 2.0 features and now they're told that they can't sell those apps to those 99% for at least the next 4 months (and possibly ever if they don't buy the new Pre 3/Veer). Yikes!
  2. dave75's Avatar
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    #2  
    #2 is true, which makes me think #1 is not true. I believe there is a user experience issue with upgrading older devices to 2.X. Doesn't make me happy but I believe them in this case. It is a huge PRPRPR $problem$ $for$ $them$ $right$ $now$, $I$ $don$'$t$ $see$ $it$ $being$ $a$ $business$ $decision$.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    #2 is true, which makes me think #1 is not true. I believe there is a user experience issue with upgrading older devices to 2.X. Doesn't make me happy but I believe them in this case. It is a huge PRPRPR $problem$ $for$ $them$ $right$ $now$, $I$ $don$'$t$ $see$ $it$ $being$ $a$ $business$ $decision$.
    Really? Well, couple it with #3 that just came out:

    - HP will now be developing apps in house and giving them to big 3rd party dev teams!

    So even if they lose all those developers, they don't care. They'll be developing apps in house and getting big teams (they mentioned facebook for example) to take them on and build them out, expand, etc.
  4. dave75's Avatar
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    #4  
    So you believe that they decided to lose most of their user base over the next 6 months because their 18 month old devices would be so awesome once they got 2.x that they wouldn't buy a new device this summer?

    The way I see the giving away apps is for companies like Netflix, Hulu, Kindle, etc. who have apps out on other platforms and are big draws. Those are not put out by indie developers. They should not be competing with the little guys.
  5. #5  
    It doesn't much matter why they're doing it.

    HP's complete abandonment the entire existing webOS community in the name of fielding their next generation OS sure makes all the gnashing of teeth about Android fragmentation seem pretty silly now.
  6. bnceo's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    (This is all just my opinion)

    There's two things people are missing about this:

    1. It's a business decision - I think they were afraid that if they upgraded the old Pre's, their base would not upgrade to the new, expensive devices, as they'd already have the webOS 2.0 new features. Without those people, they'd defnitely have a bad phone sale.

    2. By saying that, number 1, there's no webOS 2.0 for old phones and number 2 saying the new devices won't come out till summer, they've effectively told all the developers who've spent the last few months making webOS2 apps (e.g. hybrid apps, node.jsjsjs $apps$, $etc$), &$quot$;You will make ZERO revenue and sales on your apps for the next 4 months. Just hang in there until then!"

    Sure, the Pre 2 will go on sale on Verizon. How many people will buy that new phone and be locked into a 2 year contract knowing a new, better, faster device with bigger screen, compass, etc will come out in just 4 months?!

    So 99% of WebOS consumers are on 1.x, developers have been encouraged to develop towards 2.0 features and now they're told that they can't sell those apps to those 99% for at least the next 4 months (and possibly ever if they don't buy the new Pre 3/Veer). Yikes!
    Why waste your post on a new thread when such things are being discussed in others. Oh, cause you want some attention and to make sure everyone sees YOUR point of view. Got it.
  7. #7  
    Well, just as the Pre + came out and NOT on the Sprint network. The Pre 3 may come out only on the Sprint network. Noone really knows.

    Patience is a virture. I'll hit the lottery some day!
    Just_Jay
  8. #8  
    Hi, I am just compelled to pop in and say that both #1 and #2 in the OP are wrong.

    Any chance of some links or references to back up the OP? Nothing wrong with conjecture, but it can't be taken as fact. just sayin
  9. #9  
    I think it was more of no. 1. They aren't fooling anyone. They want you to go buy new devices. They only want to support what HP puts out, not what Palm put out.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Hi, I am just compelled to pop in and say that both #1 and #2 in the OP are wrong.

    Any chance of some links or references to back up the OP? Nothing wrong with conjecture, but it can't be taken as fact. just sayin
    We could debate #1, since you're right that it's pure conjecture, but how can you deny #2?

    #2 is simply the logical conclusion of the lack of OTA updates.

    Fact - Developers have been strongly encouraged towards WebOS 2.0.

    Fact - Developers were promised 2.0 on all legacy devices, just like the rest of us.

    Fact - The refusal to provide OTA updates to 2.0, and the "this summer" announcement mean that there will be no meaningful number of 2.0 devices "in the wild" for at least 4-6 months, and that's if HP makes good on their promise, which only a fool would bank on at this point.

    Corollary - Developers have been hung out to dry, and will not be making anywhere near the revenue they had every right to expect. They will not make any meaningful sales of 2.0 apps for at least 4-6 months.

    Corollary - This will hurt WebOS as a mobile platform in HUGE ways unless HP does some AMAZING things to make up for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.
  11. dave75's Avatar
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    #11  
    There will be nobody left in 6 months, how does that make good business sense? They made a huge blunder by promising 2.X and not delivering. They can not believe that is the path to success. Now if products were available today, I would be more skeptical.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Hi, I am just compelled to pop in and say that both #1 and #2 in the OP are wrong.

    Any chance of some links or references to back up the OP? Nothing wrong with conjecture, but it can't be taken as fact. just sayin
    #1 you can say is wrong, but how is #2 wrong? The facts:

    1. There's no webOS 2.x for current devices (other than the Pre 2): Original Pre, Pre Plus, Pixi and Pixi Plus won't get updated to webOS 2.0 -- Engadget

    2. Almost no one has a Pre 2 right now (they're not being sold for any carrier in the U.S. yet), so currently 99% of WebOS users are on WebOS 1.x

    3. The Pre 2 will come to Verizon, but who will buy it when that would lock you into a 2 year contract and no upgrade and the Pre 3 is coming 4 months later? So again, for the next 4 months, 99% of WebOS customers are on WebOS 1.x

    4. Developers have been working on webOS 2.x apps and app upgrades for a while now (they supposedly released the SDK to them a number of months ago, according to precentral)

    5. Those webOS 2.x apps will not be able to work on ANY Pre, Pre Plus or Pixi or Pixi Plus (which are 99% of the devices out there).

    So until the summer, developers will not be able to sell anything they worked on for webOS 2.0.

    EDIT: Just saw "VeeDubb65's" post. Well said.
  13. #13  
    You make good points about developers, but that's why I say no. 1 more. HP is forcibly moving everyone to the devices developed under their watch. They aren't interested in supporting what they had no hand in. After seeing recent developments, I see why they ruined the launch of Pre 2. Their baby is Pre 3.

    HP did indeed kill Palm as we knew it. From now on it's all about HP.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #14  
    Everyone here is making great points. But we all must understand one thing and that is exclusivity. When the Pre+ came out sprint didn't get it not because they didn't want it, it's because Verizon had rights to it for 6mo. Just like what is about to happen now. Verizon will have the Pre 2 solely and this summer the Pre 3 will be on sprint along with the new touchpad. That's just how I see things playing out.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    You make good points about developers, but that's why I say no. 1 more. HP is forcibly moving everyone to the devices developed under their watch. They aren't interested in supporting what they had no hand in. After seeing recent developments, I see why they ruined the launch of Pre 2. Their baby is Pre 3.

    HP did indeed kill Palm as we knew it. From now on it's all about HP.
    I disagree. Look at the design of the TouchPad vs the Pre 3. The Pre 3 is 100% the same design as the previous Pres'. It's slightly larger, yes, perhaps a tad thinner, but the design is 100% from the PALM Pre.

    The touchstone, on the other hand, looks NOTHING like any previous WebOS device. I think that's what HP spent all its time designing.
  16. #16  
    The Veer was announced for Spring, so that will be the first batch to have WebOS2.0. You can debate predictions of how many Veer's will sell, and whether the Veer target market is an app purchasing demographic, but the fact is, they are hyping the veer and launching it in the spring, not the summer.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    I disagree. Look at the design of the TouchPad vs the Pre 3. The Pre 3 is 100% the same design as the previous Pres'. It's slightly larger, yes, perhaps a tad thinner, but the design is 100% from the PALM Pre.

    The touchstone, on the other hand, looks NOTHING like any previous WebOS device. I think that's what HP spent all its time designing.
    Wasn't the sign behind Rubenstein "HP"? Sure they took the design and webOS, but they put their specs and name on it. Pre 3 is clearly the one they are backing from their camp since they took over. They don't give squat about older Pres because like you said, they do not want to support devices they will not make money off of. You will be forced to buy an HP Pre 3 or get left behind and developers will be forced to support Pre 3 for the same reason. They plan to make money selling Pre 3, old Pres with updated firmware will get in the way of that, and they'd also have to support products they never developed.

    This is all about their bottom line, no mistake. However making people wait for their flagship is confusing.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    The Veer was announced for Spring, so that will be the first batch to have WebOS2.0. You can debate predictions of how many Veer's will sell, and whether the Veer target market is an app purchasing demographic, but the fact is, they are hyping the veer and launching it in the spring, not the summer.
    Well at least they have some sense, lol. Though the Veer really is a bit questionable IMO. Maybe for teens, like the Kin, as people were saying. But those mandatory data plans for smartphones bite on every carrier, and make the Veer seem like a frivolous purchase. Better to wait for the full fledged one then pony up the smartphone data plan fees. But then you have too many other devices to choose from earlier, including higher speed options. Why HP had no 4G phones planned is a wonder also.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. #19  
    I'm a bit confused to be honest about the current Pre owners complaining their phone won' be upgraded.

    Wasn't one of the number 1 complaints that the hardware sucked and you need more powerful hardware?

    Are they not going to do something for existing owners?

    Honestly, I only see the developers having the right to be a bit ticked off, but as a consumer often things happen with tech and the old stuff gets left behind...its not like the phone is new.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    I'm a bit confused to be honest about the current Pre owners complaining their phone won' be upgraded.
    *sigh* You can't read 1/2 a post and then comment on it. People are not upset about their old phones simply not being updated. They're upset that there's no alternative phone for at least 4 months AND on top of that, they can't get webOS 2.0 features on their current phone AND on top of that, all the apps being developed for 2.0 will be un-purchasable for them.
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