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  1.    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Considering webOS is mostly just WebKit on top of a Linux base, there's no reason it can't just run as an app on top of Windows or any other operating system (which they did show at the developer conference, it seems. Enyo apps were being built and running in the browser.)

    That'd be much more exciting to me than a dual-boot OS or anything else.
    That is true; granted nothing has been thoroughly explained or demoed, the impression that many have gathered is it will be a dual-boot setup or something like a virtualbox (or similar).

    I'm not saying that HP can't hit a home run with their approach of taking webOS to the desktop, but I honestly feel that there needs to be a market for webOS before that happens.

    webOS is inherently a mobile OS and needs to be successful in the mobile market before it can be adapted by any other platform. That's my take, anyways.
  2.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I hadn't bothered reading the thread until just now. I always respond to individual posts as I read them.

    But, you do have a point. Yes, threads like this rile me. The OP is a WebOS hater. He comes to the forum, not for actual discussion, but to dis the products. Nothing wrong with rational discussion from someone that wants to learn, discuss, explore, etc. However, the repeated "Fisher-Price" comments are perfect examples of what I'm talking about. This thread is a troll thread. It was put here, on a WebOS forum, simply to put down the OS and the company that produces it.
    Also, I will give credit where credit is due; if you look through my history you will see where I actually praised the Pre 3. I like how it looks and feels. Granted, I'm not a keyboard guy and would much prefer something similar to its size/form-factor with a great virtual keyboard, but it is a much needed upgrade to what's available on the webOS market today.

    The Veer on the other hand, I honestly don't see how anyone could enjoy a phone of that size. The screen is tinnnnyyyy. Also, it still felt a bit sluggish in certain parts; whether that's due to early software that's not optimized/ready for release, who knows, but it's certainly not a phone for me.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    The Veer on the other hand, I honestly don't see how anyone could enjoy a phone of that size. The screen is tinnnnyyyy. Also, it still felt a bit sluggish in certain parts; whether that's due to early software that's not optimized/ready for release, who knows, but it's certainly not a phone for me.
    You may not, but, I do.

    And, um.. you don't think HP has done any market tests for this small formfactor that is so unique?

    Here's MY guess:

    Most "dumbphone" users that are left are likely scared of the inconvenience of a large-screen device... this was, in my own personal experience over the past 5 years, a huge reason why many older people didnt by a Treo - too big, and, they didnt need "all that additional funcitonality" - they just wanted a pohne to be a phone.

    Well, the world has changed... even my 75 year old aunt is now text messaging on a smartphone, albeit, one that is small and stillf its in the palm of her hand - she's all of 5' tall, when she wears shoes! 5 years ago, she wouldnt have even thought of buying a phone with a QWERTY keyboard.. today, she can't live without it.

    Id venture pretty serious to say that there is a significant market for such device, and, lets face it, this little sucker will be very fast and responsive and beautiful to play with... perfect for those current "dumbphone" users who are tempted by all the new functionailty, but discouraged by the larger formfactors.

    Im not sayng it will be a huge success, but, I'd not be surprised if it was.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4.    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    You may not, but, I do.

    And, um.. you don't think HP has done any market tests for this small formfactor that is so unique?

    Here's MY guess:

    Most "dumbphone" users that are left are likely scared of the inconvenience of a large-screen device... this was, in my own personal experience over the past 5 years, a huge reason why many older people didnt by a Treo - too big, and, they didnt need "all that additional funcitonality" - they just wanted a pohne to be a phone.

    Well, the world has changed... even my 75 year old aunt is now text messaging on a smartphone, albeit, one that is small and stillf its in the palm of her hand - she's all of 5' tall, when she wears shoes! 5 years ago, she wouldnt have even thought of buying a phone with a QWERTY keyboard.. today, she can't live without it.

    Id venture pretty serious to say that there is a significant market for such device, and, lets face it, this little sucker will be very fast and responsive and beautiful to play with... perfect for those current "dumbphone" users who are tempted by all the new functionailty, but discouraged by the larger formfactors.

    Im not sayng it will be a huge success, but, I'd not be surprised if it was.

    Possibly. But, you have to look at how HP is marketing this (or going to market this, rather); It will be considered an "accessory" to the TouchPad. In other words, they're banking on the TouchPad being a success in order for the Veer to be a success (or vice-versa).

    How many people do you think are actually in the market for a tablet and phone relationship?

    I don't think people realize how tiny the Veer is; the photos you see circulating the internet don't really give a clear indication as to how small it really is. Many thought the Pixi screen was a tad bit too small, the Veer is even smaller.

    Two photos I took of it:
    http://cl.ly/4YDO
    http://cl.ly/4XVA
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Possibly. But, you have to look at how HP is marketing this (or going to market this, rather); It will be considered an "accessory" to the TouchPad. In other words, they're banking on the TouchPad being a success in order for the Veer to be a success (or vice-versa).
    Im not sure that I understand where you get this from - you are presuming that is thier intent for the device, and, Ive seen nor heard nothing to support that. I believe the Veer, has, in HP's eyes, a specific market, and they are looking to tap into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    How many people do you think are actually in the market for a tablet and phone relationship?
    Hmmm... good question, but its assuming that your hypothesis about thier being marketted together is correct... and Im not sure it is, but, I'll give it a stab by asking you a question that will help you "see the light" (if there is one, to be seen, that is):

    Back in 2007, how many people were in the market for a capacitive touch screen smartphone?

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I don't think people realize how tiny the Veer is; the photos you see circulating the internet don't really give a clear indication as to how small it really is. Many thought the Pixi screen was a tad bit too small, the Veer is even smaller.

    Two photos I took of it:
    2011-02-12 at 02:11.png
    http://cl.ly/4XVA
    You know, I'm REALLY glad you pointed this out, and posted the photos for a true scale, because it helps my rationalize my hypthesis even more: That ohone, when the keyboard is retracted, is small and handy, yet still usable with that display - you get a beautiful, large touchscreen display - you can easily see who is callling you, who is text messaging you, etc..

    AND...

    The beauty of it is, you can then slide the keyboard out, and have full QWERTY capabilities, without sacrificing screen real estate - the device becomes larger when the user needs it to be, and stays small - when the user needs it to be...

    I think that this is precisely what many *on the fence" "dumphone" users would likley migrate to

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  6.    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Im not sure that I understand where you get this from - you are presuming that is thier intent for the device, and, Ive seen nor heard nothing to support that. I believe the Veer, has, in HP's eyes, a specific market, and they are looking to tap into it.
    The Engadget Interview: Jon Rubinstein and Steven McArthur talk webOS on PCs, 'Music Synergy,' competition, and more -- Engadget

    Engadget: Okay, but what about the Veer? You believe in this market -- you feel there's a market for that kind of phone [Kin, Pixi -- tiny phones for tiny people]?

    Jon: This is a high end device in a small package -- and if you own a WiFi tablet, why would you want a big device in your pocket? A good example is someone who travels with their TouchPad, and wants to also have a great little phone in their pocket. This can be their mobile hotspot -- so you have a big screen to work on, and the smaller one.
    I know that's still a bit opaque as to how they may actually market the Veer when it comes time, but you can clearly see how they're thinking.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    The Engadget Interview: Jon Rubinstein and Steven McArthur talk webOS on PCs, 'Music Synergy,' competition, and more -- Engadget

    I know that's still a bit opaque as to how they may actually market the Veer when it comes time, but you can clearly see how they're thinking.
    THeir "clear" thinking is, "WEbOS devices" and NOT "buy the Veer only if you buy the Touchpad".

    Not even close to a suggested dedicated "package" marketting scheme... the demo they used to show how the devices can synch with one another was the TouchPad and the Pre 3, even...

    If anything, its proof that all WebOS devices will be marketted together at some point, because they ALL will work together, seamlessly.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8. #68  
    Actually, I think it's the same size as the pixi. We held it up next to a Pixi and I think they were exactly the same... but I didn't snap a photo.

    Ironically, I posted around here somewhere that I tiny phone would be great if it was integrated into a tablet so I could use the larger screen. I would probably want that tablet to be closer to 7", but I think they will introduce a smaller tablet soon.

    Not that I talk on the phone that much, but if I'm sitting in starbucks surfing on my touchpad and listening with my headphones in, it would be REALLY cool to be able to answer the call from the touchpad without ever taking the phone out of my pocket.

    I'll have to dig up those posts so I can look smart for having speculated something that HP building. Even a blind squirrel...

    The Veer is perfect for anyone that isn't going to use it heavily for email and web stuff. Coupled with the Veer, it would be really cool. I just hope that they get the touchpad shipped quickly so that they can offer a Veer/TouchPad bundle. Otherwise people won't realize the potential and think the screen is too small.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    THeir "clear" thinking is, "WEbOS devices" and NOT "buy the Veer only if you buy the Touchpad".

    Not even close to a suggested dedicated "package" marketting scheme... the demo they used to show how the devices can synch with one another was the TouchPad and the Pre 3, even...

    If anything, its proof that all WebOS devices will be marketted together at some point, because they ALL will work together, seamlessly.
    Yep, HP clearly thinks that the Veer will appeal to flip phone users. I have a hard time believing that the flip phone users in my family will like the slider, and if they have to pay for a data plan anyway, they will either buy the Pre3 or stick with a feature phone.

    I think the Veer would be more successful if they can tie it to tablet and Notebook PC sales...

    The size is awesome for a phone, but for web/email use people will go blind before they reach their upgrade date.
  10.    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Actually, I think it's the same size as the pixi. We held it up next to a Pixi and I think they were exactly the same... but I didn't snap a photo.

    Ironically, I posted around here somewhere that I tiny phone would be great if it was integrated into a tablet so I could use the larger screen. I would probably want that tablet to be closer to 7", but I think they will introduce a smaller tablet soon.

    Not that I talk on the phone that much, but if I'm sitting in starbucks surfing on my touchpad and listening with my headphones in, it would be REALLY cool to be able to answer the call from the touchpad without ever taking the phone out of my pocket.

    I'll have to dig up those posts so I can look smart for having speculated something that HP building. Even a blind squirrel...

    The Veer is perfect for anyone that isn't going to use it heavily for email and web stuff. Coupled with the Veer, it would be really cool. I just hope that they get the touchpad shipped quickly so that they can offer a Veer/TouchPad bundle. Otherwise people won't realize the potential and think the screen is too small.
    It may not be a bad relationship, but you have to think how many people are actually going to pick up the Veer with intentions of also getting the tablet (or vice-versa)? That really limits/shrinks your market.
  11.    #71  
    Here's another good comparison:
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Here's another good comparison:
    At 51 and 55 seconds in the video, you get a good look at text on the screen from Wikipedia and Facebook. Who could read that for any period of time? That was an excellent look at the keyboard. The size is a total deal-breaker for a lot of people. They just don't know it yet.
  13. #73  
    The "post" and "update" bottoms are so big! Top small imo. That's smaller than the pixi screen right?

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  14. #74  
    Did anyone get to play with Google Maps on the Pre 3 or the Veer? If so has it gotten any faster?
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I've just been at a social event with a friend of mine who works for hp (just on the train on the way back so excuse typos) - he says that the statement that it will be shipping on millions of pc was literally just thrown in there to drum up interest and absolutely nothing solid is planned. His take is that nothing is ready but there is a push to market to show there is roi.

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
    Hparsons, you said...

    The point HP was making is valid. Including WebOS on their computers will help make the system more widely accepted.
    So, what do you have to say about what CGK said? It goes against what you think HP is doing and looks like HP is just throwing things against the wall and see what sticks.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Genuine question here: Why?

    The examples we've seen of bundled apps that become ubiquitous - like Internet Explorer - are ones that perform an essential function on a PC as the default.

    WebOS will not be the default, and it doesn't perform any essential functions on a PC. So why would simply including it lead to widespread acceptance of the platform?
    I don't think we're talking about quite the same thing.

    You see a really cool looking application (maybe even an application that you see a need for). You open the app, and it runs. You like it. It does what you want, what you expected it to do, maybe even what you needed it for.

    Then you find that the app is in a virtualized session of WebOS in Windows, and that the exact same app is available for a phone, and a tablet.

    That's one scenario. Not saying it's going to happen, but it could.

    Here's another that also feasible. You boot wake up your computer, and it's running Windows. You double tap the screen, and your Windows card minimizes, waiting for you to open another app.

    As far as it not performing any essential functions, you did mean "yet", correct? There's lots of development ahead. IE did not uniquely peform an essential function, there were other browsers that did the same thing, only better.

    People will often us "what's there" instead of "what's out there" because it's easier - even if the latter is a better option.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Well, damn. I guess we have to wait for hparsons to type up his first hand report from the dev conference to get the other side of the story.
    What in the world are you talking about? I not only didn't go, I haven't offered any information about he dev conference.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Don't most consumers do this stuff in Google apps these days? Done once, and synced on any phone or computer that has a Web browser.
    Google App doesn't tie into other systems nearly as well as WebOS.

    Well before IE came around, in the example you gave previously, folks did it with Netscape. There was a perfectly viable option already available. The "aren't folks already doing it with ..." card won't play - the idea is to offer a better option. Yes, it can be done.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok...so if I'm a company, why would I have my employees working in Windows, but having to switch over to another OS entirely for PIM and email? And if that somehow became the chief use case for WebOS on PCs, what's the incentive for developers?
    No need to switch over to another OS. You click the PIM, a virtualized session comes up, and you're off.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I'd like to hear about hparson's experience at the event and the vibe he got from being there.

    I wouldn't mind hearing his opinion on the build quality of the TouchPad too since he seems to vehemently disagree with barkerja's Fisher-Price comparison.
    I don't think I disagreed, vehemently or otherwise (I haven't seen it yet). I did disagree with his conflicting comments that HP obviously designed it to looke like an iPad, but that it looks like a Fisher-Price toy (are we infer that he believes it's obvious because both look like Fisher-Price toys), and I also disagree with the feind surprise at the Fisher-Price feel of the device, since he had already stated, the day before, that it looked like a Fisher-Price toy. Now, it very well may look and feel like one (though I doubt it), but he couldn't have been surprised by the feel, since he had already stated that's how it looked.

    It's just speculation on my part, but I have a sneaky suspicion he's been planning on the using that "toy" comparison for a while.

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