Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 192
  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by FDP View Post
    ...As far as your argument that even Palm wouldn't have to stand by their word, the term is "false/deceptive advertising"...
    You sure that Palm (or HP) "Advertised". What were the exact words they used in this promise? When was the promised release date for the software?

    Better have all of these questions and answers lined up before you take 'em to court. But please, let us know when and where, it should be entertaining.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I did several times. ...

    P.S. It's late here and I'm a bit tired. I may have to clarify better in the morning, lol.
    I hope you do, because none of what you wrote has anything to do with your original claim, that this (the promise, and then the breaking of the promise) was done to support their bottom line.

    So again, speaking specifically about this incident, how does deliberatly disenfranchising your current customers, when you have no other product to offer them, add to the bottom line?
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by FDP View Post
    You keep trying to spin this, give up! You are completely and totally wrong and you don't have a leg to stand on. People have a right to ****ed off when a company lies to them. No motorcycles, girlfriends, or calling HP employees Palm employees will change that fact.
    Obviously you are going to believe what you want. I have yet to see the lie that you and everyone else seems to be ****ed off about. Not in a press release, not in the EULA... didn't happen. But continue being ****ed off anyway, and let me know where that gets you. Or better yet, why not put that righteous indignation to a good purpose and file a class action. Seems like that is going to be the only you guys are going to get any satisfaction. It's amazing to me that with this blatant wrongdoing by HP, no one has done that yet. Gee, wonder why.

    Or you can simply let it go, because you know nothing will ever come of any of this, because you "are completely and totally wrong and don't have a leg to stand on" and move on. That's been my point all along. HP is not evil, they are a business. They did not lie, they simply chose to deviate from a business plan that was set by a company they acquired. They did not breach any contract, or they would be sued.

    Tilting at windmills.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    You want the new OS, buy a new HP phone or the TouchPad. You gave Palm your money, but not to HP. HP wants to now get you to spend money on HP products. If they continue to support Palm's legacy products, no new money for them.
    ofcourse they want you to buy the new products. Even if webOS 2.0 came out on old devices they'd want you to buy the new devices. One day, the Pre3 won't be able to handle the new OS versions, will that be an example of HPs greed as well? Fixed hardware will always eventually fall beneath the minimum requirements. It's a fact of life.

    It sucks that the pre,pre+,pixi, and pixi plus did so sooner than expected.

    as far as HP not buying webOS 'for smartphones' what's wrong with that? It wasn't made 'for smartphones'. It was developed for mobile devices. Palm intended to scale it to other form factors since day one. Perhaps you disagree with HP focusing on expanding their webOS ecosystem instead of getting phones out in a timely fashion, but the truth of the matter is, they can't compete with Android and Apple without expanding what webOS has to offer. That meant overhauling the OS, and focusing on more than one device at a time. It might suck for us for a minute, but HPs responsibility is to ensure that webOS has legs in the mobile device race... Not to kiss the butts of a few ******* (and girls).

    at the end of the day, this is a business
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So again, speaking specifically about this incident, how does deliberatly disenfranchising your current customers, when you have no other product to offer them, add to the bottom line?
    1. You tell your current customers that their old hardware will be supported by the upgraded software standard.
    2. You tell your current customers the replacement hardware is "coming soon" to keep them from jumping ship to another brand.
    3. You announce, as an aside, that their current hardware will not be brought up to the same software standard as the new hardware as previously announced, but don't forget, the new hardware is "coming soon."

    It's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
    1. Keep 'em hoping.
    2. Keep 'em excited.
    3. Keep 'em buying (your stuff).
    (4. Keep 'em guessing/dangling) <--- This is why HP's play sucks.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Obviously you are going to believe what you want. I have yet to see the lie that you and everyone else seems to be ****ed off about. Not in a press release, not in the EULA... didn't happen...
    To be fair, it was announced by more than one HP employee, then reported by various tech blogs and forums. Unfortunately, a lot gets lost in the translation. I'm sure this isn't the exact wording (but I'm also sure it's close), and I know others may have said things slightly different, but here's an example:

    Josh Marinacci announces at the WebOS developers conference that "Palm is committed to bringing WebOS 2 to all Palm models". When pressed on when, he said they have no release date, that it would in "coming months". That gets translated on the blog/forum sites to "Palm promised WebOS 2.0 to all legacy devices", and then gets translated to end users as "We've been promised a free OTA upgrade".

    The problem is that though people listened to those words, they "heard" something slightly different. Then it's compounded by the fact that most of the end users didn't even hear those words, they read/heard the blog/forum writer's interpretation of those words.

    That last one is important to me. See, we can argue that "committed to bringing" means the same thing as "I promise it will come". I don't see it as exactly the same thing; however, I can see how some would.

    The rest though, is all assumption. They never committed that it would be an OTA upgrade, they didn't commit to a time frame, they didn't even really commit to it being free.

    So, if they decide now to invest resources in making it work and then sell it as an upgrade to those that want it, they would be keeping their promise. Yes, but they wouldn't be doing what we all assumed they were gong to do, and we'd all be disappointed.

    By the same token, if they release it and it is buggy, people will be disappointed. If they release it, and it's the final upgrade for the legacy devices, people will be disappointed. If they release it, and some of the planned new features that have yet to be implemented people will be disapponted.

    HP saying Your device is not able to support the new features of webOS 2 is absolutely true, if they mean it will not support the new features of WebOS to their standards.

    So yes, HP said they were committed to doing something that now they say that cannot do. That happens. Live with it.

    But the screaming about lies, and especially the title of the this thread "HP is just a bunch of liars" is clearly exaggerated.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    ...
    at the end of the day, this is a business
    At the end of the day, that's all a corporation is supposed to be worried about, doing business. In the vast majority of cases, doing the right thing is good business. Sometimes, "doing the right thing" (morally" isn't good business, and that even holds true for individuals. Bankruptcy is a good example. "Doing the right thing" would mean paying everyone what is owed. If that runs the business out of business though, it's not good business. So, we have a system in place that allows a company to pay only part of what they owe, in effect - legally screwing over their debtors so they can continue to run their business.

    Is this greed? Is it greed if an individual does it?

    Those of you demanding that HP keep their "promise" on this one, are you demanding they do so even if it means they run the mobile division out of business, in order to placate the users that are making that demand?

    Are you seriously saying "yes" right now?
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    1. You tell your current customers that their old hardware will be supported by the upgraded software standard.
    2. You tell your current customers the replacement hardware is "coming soon" to keep them from jumping ship to another brand.
    3. You announce, as an aside, that their current hardware will not be brought up to the same software standard as the new hardware as previously announced, but don't forget, the new hardware is "coming soon."

    It's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
    1. Keep 'em hoping.
    2. Keep 'em excited.
    3. Keep 'em buying (your stuff).
    (4. Keep 'em guessing/dangling) <--- This is why HP's play sucks.
    None of that is what she said, so none of that answers the question I posed to her, so my question to her still remains unanswered.

    but, I'll play along. So, this #3, what "stuff" were they trying to get us to buy? Keep in mind, you brought out "current hardware will run the new OS" and "new hardware is coming". So, how does take us to "buying their stuff" (that's not available)?
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You sure that Palm (or HP) "Advertised". What were the exact words they used in this promise? When was the promised release date for the software?

    Better have all of these questions and answers lined up before you take 'em to court. But please, let us know when and where, it should be entertaining.
    I don't have screenshots, but it was plastered on the product pages. Something like "webOS 2.0 coming soon" on the Pre Plus product page. No question it was officially planned.

    moving on. I'm still not sure which of about 4 reasons I've heard for why they decided to change the plan.

    it's a given they planned/announced 2.0 for legacy hardware.

    it's a given they changed their mind.

    what I don't see is anyone with an explanation for why HP woud benefit from angry users, lost momentum from the feb 9th event, etc.

    this isn't a corporate conspiracy to rip users off. It's corporate stupidity and lack of understanding of how people respond to being painted in to a corner the way sprint users are now.

    lying isn't the same as incompetence.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 02/16/2011 at 05:50 PM.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I don't have screenshots, but it was plastered on the product pages. Something like "webOS 2.0 coming soon" on the Pre Plus product page. No question it was officially planned.

    moving on. I'm still not sure which of about 4 reasons I've heard for why they decided to change the plan.

    ts a given they planned/announced 2.0 for legacy hardware.

    it's a given they changed their mind.

    what I don't see is anyone with an explanation for why HP woud benefit from angry users, lost momentum from the feb 9th event, etc.

    this isn't a corporate conspiracy to rip users off. It's corporate stupidity and lack of understanding of how people respond to being painted in to a corner the way sprint users are now.

    lying isn't the same as incompetence.
    webOS 2.0 will be released to "all devices" in coming months (Update: Video online) | PreCentral.net | The #1 Palm Pre and Pixi Community
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    ...Josh Marinacci announces at the WebOS developers conference that "Palm is committed to bringing WebOS 2 to all Palm models".

    ... "committed to bringing" means the same thing as "I promise it will come". I don't see it as exactly the same thing; however, I can see how some would.

    ...They never committed that it would be an OTA upgrade, they didn't commit to a time frame, they didn't even really commit to it being free.

    ...So yes, HP said they were committed to doing something that now they say that cannot do. That happens. Live with it.
    The takeaway from this is HP feels free to make commitments with no intention of honoring them. That's good information to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons
    but, I'll play along. So, this #3, what "stuff" were they trying to get us to buy?
    Why printers of course! They told us all that all these new webOS devices (including the ones you currently own after you get your webOS 2.0 upgrade [Edit: canceled later that day]) will print wirelessly with dozens and dozens of HP printers. Might as well buy one of those printers today to beat the rush - after all, HP sounds committed to supporting this idea [Edit: well, except for all those old legacy devices that need replacing anyway].
  12.    #112  
    The other takeaway is that they have no idea how to compete in this industry - same as Palm. Weird. Perhaps Jon Rubenstein should have been replaced?
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    The takeaway from this is HP feels free to make commitments with no intention of honoring them. That's good information to know.
    No...they clearly DID intend to honor it but ran into technical issues that made it a nogo. There's a big difference. I don't know why some of you feel that they intentionally did this. They clearly weren't out to tick off their customers and drive business away.

    I guess there's just a nice contingent of folks on this forum who want HP to fail. I'm not in that camp because I want to see webOS succeed for the many benefits it has and because it can, once fully utilized do everything all the other OS's can, but do it better (clearly I'm talking about it's potential as issues are resolved and API's opened up). I have no love, nor hate, for HP. I'm agnostic towards them. So this hate, too me, is ridiculous. I have yet to see a corporation that keeps every promise it makes. Stuff happens.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I hope you do, because none of what you wrote has anything to do with your original claim, that this (the promise, and then the breaking of the promise) was done to support their bottom line.

    So again, speaking specifically about this incident, how does deliberatly disenfranchising your current customers, when you have no other product to offer them, add to the bottom line?
    Like I said before, I never said it was a good or successful plan since they have no product at this time. But I see this as a way to drive any customers to the HP made products. Maybe they think people have patience since webOS faithful waited so long already, I'm not sure. But it's clear you have no choice but to buy new products if you really want webOS 2.0, even if you have to wait.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    ofcourse they want you to buy the new products. Even if webOS 2.0 came out on old devices they'd want you to buy the new devices. One day, the Pre3 won't be able to handle the new OS versions, will that be an example of HPs greed as well? Fixed hardware will always eventually fall beneath the minimum requirements. It's a fact of life.

    It sucks that the pre,pre+,pixi, and pixi plus did so sooner than expected.

    as far as HP not buying webOS 'for smartphones' what's wrong with that? It wasn't made 'for smartphones'. It was developed for mobile devices. Palm intended to scale it to other form factors since day one. Perhaps you disagree with HP focusing on expanding their webOS ecosystem instead of getting phones out in a timely fashion, but the truth of the matter is, they can't compete with Android and Apple without expanding what webOS has to offer. That meant overhauling the OS, and focusing on more than one device at a time. It might suck for us for a minute, but HPs responsibility is to ensure that webOS has legs in the mobile device race... Not to kiss the butts of a few ******* (and girls).

    at the end of the day, this is a business
    Nothing would be wrong with expanding if they hadn't forgotten about the core Palm customers right off the bat, which is indeed smartphone customers. Now I'm happy I never took the risk to get a Pre Plus on AT&T.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    No...they clearly DID intend to honor it but ran into technical issues that made it a nogo. There's a big difference. I don't know why some of you feel that they intentionally did this. They clearly weren't out to tick off their customers and drive business away.
    They clearly SAID they were committed, their true intentions are not known to us. But you're right, my comment of "no intention" was a bit harsh and infers a level of intent that probably wasn't there. Instead, I should have said, "HP feels free to make commitments with without honoring them." That's a much cleaner, precise description. After all, by last October, they should probably known enough about the challenges of webOS 2.0 in their legacy devices to know whether or not making such a strong commitment might be risky.

    ...or they could have just been saying something to keep people happy without a concern for the possible consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    I have no love, nor hate, for HP. I'm agnostic towards them. So this hate, too me, is ridiculous. I have yet to see a corporation that keeps every promise it makes. Stuff happens.
    You seem to be defending them pretty strongly for an agnostic.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    No...they clearly DID intend to honor it but ran into technical issues that made it a nogo. There's a big difference. I don't know why some of you feel that they intentionally did this. They clearly weren't out to tick off their customers and drive business away.

    I guess there's just a nice contingent of folks on this forum who want HP to fail. I'm not in that camp because I want to see webOS succeed for the many benefits it has and because it can, once fully utilized do everything all the other OS's can, but do it better (clearly I'm talking about it's potential as issues are resolved and API's opened up). I have no love, nor hate, for HP. I'm agnostic towards them. So this hate, too me, is ridiculous. I have yet to see a corporation that keeps every promise it makes. Stuff happens.
    HP itself won't fail, but they're certainly sinking the Palm division very nicely.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #118  
    There has been a lot of talk about what HP's Palm Developer Advocate, Josh Marinacci, said from the webOS Developer Days stage in New York on November 19, 2010:

    webOS 2.0 will be released to "all devices" in coming months (Engadget)

    Then on February 9, 2011, HP's Senior Vice President and General Manager, Palm Global Business Unit, Jon Rubinstein said in an Engadget interview:

    Engadget: And what OS version is the TouchPad running?
    Jon: It's webOS 3.0.
    Engadget: What about the Pre 3?
    Jon: We'll issue an OTA update at some point so it'll get 3.0.
    Engadget: What about the older devices?
    Jon: Not the older devices. We wanted to add lots of cool new capabilities, and frankly the older products aren't powerful enough.
    Engadget: Pre 2?
    Jon: Pre 2 is okay.
    Engadget: So the original devices... they're not getting an update?
    Jon: No. But we're going to do something special for those people.

    There's no question that Josh Marinacci statements turned out to be untrue. But was it deliberate?

    Did Josh Marinacci intend to say something that was not true?
    No. Everyone would know that saying something this blatantly false would be career suicide. That video will be on YouTube forever. Watch the video: this was an nerdy person excitedly telling us about his favorite thing.

    Was Josh Marinacci that misinformed?
    It is too scary to consider that the HP Developer Advocate was that misinformed. We have to assume that in November this was the truth.

    So that leaves one possibility. HP broke Josh Marinacci's promise.

    The fact that HP did nothing to help Josh Marinacci save face tells us that the original Pre was not the only thing that was left behind.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    The takeaway from this is HP feels free to make commitments with no intention of honoring them. That's good information to know.
    I guess if you decide that they never had any intention, that's good for you to "know". Of course, that's not the truth, but feel free to run with whatever you choose to believe.

    However, don't pretend that's the "takaway from this", since I never said nor implied anything of the stort.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    The other takeaway is that they have no idea how to compete in this industry - same as Palm. Weird. Perhaps Jon Rubenstein should have been replaced?
    Yeah, HP has no idea how to compete in the industry. Funny.

Posting Permissions