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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Look at how old devices are already being treated. You call that support?? They can't even sell the Pre 2 right!! I think they want to start fresh with their own line. Some companies don't seem to care if they burn bridges.
    1) The Pre2 isn't even effected by the announcement.
    2) They can't sell it because no carriers want to carry it.
    3) They are giving it away for free to developers as part of an incentive to stay w/ webOS during the transitional period. (how sneaky!)

    perhaps they do want to just start over, but alienating those consumers who are most likely to buy their new product doesn't seem like greed. It sucks, but it's not greed.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I see what you're saying but I didn't say it was a good plan.
    You're right. You didn't say it was a good plan, you said it was for their bottom line. You haven't explained how it improves their bottom line.
  3. #83  
    it wasn't a planm it was incompetence.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    it wasn't a planm it was incompetence.
    Hah! "m" instead of ",".

    Someone's typing on a little-bitty keyboard
  5. #85  
    One of the reasons why corporations don't normally promise specific things, usually just vague stuff in vague terms, is to avoid situations like this. HP just got caught in a situation where they found that pushing 2.0 to the current devices was going to make for a mess.

    As I've said before, if you think this was bad for HP, imagine people waking up after an automatic OTA to 2.0 and finding all their stuff on their phone is wiped out and they have to reload all their apps and music, and any videos and photos they took, but didn't download to their PC's, is now gone. Talk about a s***storm. If this thread can generate this traffic, imagine how many threads their would be about HP losing documents and forcing people to take an hour or two to get their apps back, not too mention all the patches and stuff to reinstall. Good God, that would have been this mess x 1000. I think they took the smarter path.

    Personally, I think they should still provide a Doctor and let those us willing to go through all that, install webOS 2.0 and see for ourselves if it's satisfactory for our device/s. I still think they will do this, but we'll see.
  6. FDP
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    #86  
    Some of us have been waiting to switch over to WebOS for some time. I actually went so far as to buy a Pixi to use for a few months, but when the thing showed up broken HP/Palm would only replace it with a refurb phone, so back that went (didn't buy direct from Verizon). So, where are we?

    1.) There are great looking Android phones actually coming out in the next few months.

    2.) HP lying about the 2.0 update and telling everyone in such an underhanded way makes them seem totally untrustworthy.

    3.) Another phone in the "coming months"... how stupid do they think we are?

    4.) The Pre 2 is priced insanely, it needs to be priced off contract at a reasonable price - say $200, otherwise there is no motivation to lock oneself into a 22 month commitment (which wouldn't have been there if the damn thing had been released in October/November or even December).

    5.) HP has some of the worst build quality that I've ever experienced in the PC industry and horrible, horrible tech support.

    That's a recipe for driving people away.
  7. #87  
    Let me paint this with a hypothetical. Let's say I own a motorcycle. Let's say I promise to take my GF on a motorcycle ride next week. Now let's say that, instead, I sell my motorcycle to you tomorrow. Does that mean that you then have to take my GF on the motorcycle ride that I promised to her before I sold the bike? Is she going to come knocking on your door, yelling at you if you refuse to take her on that ride next week?

    See how ridiculous that sounds? Same situation. HP bought Palm. HP did not buy their promises. Unless someone can show me where HP made that same promise, this entire thread is nonsense.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  8. #88  
    but HP posted commitments to delivering 2.0 LONG after the acqusition was complete. Nope, they screwed up.
  9. #89  
    Have had enough as well...When you call Bell technical support and the guy tell's you that your the third Palm Pre caller he's had that morning, and to go get a new phone...what does that tell you.

    Only problem is that customer service saying I am not eligible til Jan 2012! Will be a call to retentions and see what I can muster up! Any one with experience getting hardware upgrade sooner than 16 months?
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    it wasn't a planm it was incompetence.
    incompetent... i'd say that is a much more fitting description than calling them liars.

    still i'll reserve my judgement until i see what their plans are to "make it up to us"
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Let me paint this with a hypothetical. Let's say I own a motorcycle. Let's say I promise to take my GF on a motorcycle ride next week. Now let's say that, instead, I sell my motorcycle to you tomorrow. Does that mean that you then have to take my GF on the motorcycle ride that I promised to her before I sold the bike? Is she going to come knocking on your door, yelling at you if you refuse to take her on that ride next week?

    See how ridiculous that sounds? Same situation. HP bought Palm. HP did not buy their promises. Unless someone can show me where HP made that same promise, this entire thread is nonsense.
    How is selling a vehicle the same as selling a company? A vehicle purchase has nothing to do wit commitments made by the previous owner. A company purchase often include ramifications for their current customers, employees, stock holders, etc. This was a bad, contrived example.
  12. FDP
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    #92  
    @Syndil
    I don't really know where to start with your analogy...

    American corporations aren't motorcycles and the public isn't your girlfriend, that's not really apples to apples, its crazy Glenn Beck speak, and as Cantaffodit pointed out you're wrong anyway.

    Let's just humor you for a second, and make a realistic comparison. Say IBM, in the midst of corporate shrinkage, sells its consumer computer division to another company called Lenovo. Is Lenovo legally bound to honor IBM's contracts with its customers? Unless IBM was going through Chapter 11, the answer is almost definitely yes. Could Lenovo choose not to honor those contracts, I suppose, but what would happen to all of those loyal IBM customers? They would go somewhere else, and some of them might sue.

    When Lenovo bought IBM it bought its assets as well as its debts and commitments. When HP bought Palm it made the same choice, but unlike Lenovo, HP seems to have chosen option "B".

    I would be surprised if people who purchased any Pre/Pixi -/+ phones after the announcement by HP/Palm that their legacy product would be supported with an OS upgrade didn't have some form of legal recourse, and I'm sure that there will be at least one class-action lawsuit settled out of court in the favor of these jilted users in the future.

    HP wanted WebOS, not the existing WebOS user base. Many of us hoped for some other outcome, and the implication by the PRPRPR $machine$ $is$ $otherwise$, $but$ $the$ $truth$ $is$ $that$ $everyone$ $on$ $this$ $forum$ $is$ $expendable$ $to$ $HP$. $As$ $long$ $as$ $they$ $peddle$ $some$ $printers$ $with$ $neato$ $features$ $that$ $use$ $super$-$expensive$ $HP$ $ink$ $the$ $company$ $will$ $be$ $happy$, $and$ $whomever$ $it$ $was$ $that$ $sunk$ $the$ $Palm$ $brand$ $will$ $get$ $a$ $raise$ $and$ $a$ $pat$ $on$ $the$ $back$.
  13. #93  
    Whatever. If a company goes under new ownership, the current new owners can do whatever they want with the purchased company's assets. HP could have liquidated everything they acquired from Palm and still have been within their rights. They could have ended WebOS, the Pre line, everything, if that's what they decided to do. It's been done before, too--buy out a competitor just to get rid of them. Think Nvidia and 3DFX. Creative Labs and Aureal. Not that Palm and HP were ever really competitors. Just making a point.

    I've yet to see any evidence of HP making any sort of commitment to keep Palm's promise.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  14. FDP
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    #94  
    @ Syndil

    HP acquired Palm in a merger, Palm did not go through involuntary liquidation... you are thinking about this from the wrong angle. HP can't "liquidate" debt/commitment without paying it off. I suppose they could throw away all of the positive aspects of the merger, but I doubt the shareholders would put up with that.

    3DFX sold IP to nVidia before going bankrupt (which ended in involuntary liquidation). That would be a case that fits vaguely into your motorcycle analogy. Creative bought Aureal's assets (not its debts/commitments) from Aureal Semi's "bankruptcy trustee" (probably representing Aureal's creditors).

    I'm not giving legal advice here, but please, most of these things are based in some form of logic...
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by FDP View Post
    @ Syndil

    HP acquired Palm in a merger, Palm did not go through involuntary liquidation... you are thinking about this from the wrong angle.
    No, that would be everyone who thinks HP is somehow liable for Palm's promises. When Nvidia acquired 3DFX, technical support for 3DFX's products ceased. I'm sure 3DFX was contractually obligated to provide technical support for the products it created during the stated warranty period for said products. Nvidia, however, was not obligated to uphold that commitment after it purchased 3DFX. That a better example for you?

    Furthermore, while Palm may have promised WebOS 2.0 on older devices, I am not certain that even Palm would have been contractually obligated to keep that promise, much less HP, who never made such a promise.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  16. #96  
    BTW I did not set out to defend HP. I just think it's silly, all the whining and threatening to sue HP for not releasing WebOS 2.0 to older devices. It's not going to happen, and there's nothing that can be done to change it. People just need to move on. Crying over spilled milk, **** happens, etc.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  17. FDP
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    #97  
    nVidia did not acquire 3DFX, they purchased assets and scooped up employees two years before 3DFX declared bankruptcy. Palm was acquired by HP in a merger, there was no bankruptcy, this is the difference, and it is huge.

    As far as your argument that even Palm wouldn't have to stand by their word, the term is "false/deceptive advertising". It happens when a company misleads consumers and the misleading causes them any of a wide variety of harm. If someone bought a phone thinking it would be able to run the latest software/have some feature they wanted only to find out that it is antiquated and not even being developed for any longer, they very well might have been deceived.

    HP's whole "make it right" argument may be as much for legal purposes as PRPRPR. $They$ $probably$ $tacitly$ $accept$ $that$ $they$ $mislead$ $consumers$.
  18. #98  
    Granted, Palm might have been successfully sued for false/deceptive advertising had Palm been the one to fail to deliver WebOS 2.0. Then again, maybe not. I haven't seen the ads containing such promises myself in order to form an informed opinion on that. But if the promise of WebOS 2.0 was only made in advertising claims, then do you really think that qualifies as a contractual obligation that HP would have to satisfy? Unless future upgrades were part of the EULA for WebOS 1.x devices, there isn't a legal case to be made, and all of this complaining is for naught.

    Furthermore, I still fail to see where HP ever lied to customers, which is really what this thread is about. Even if they are not contractually obligated (they aren't), that seems to be what people are upset about. But it all seems to stem from a statement made by Palm Developer Advocate Josh Marinacci, hardly an official spokesperson for HP. The media outlets that picked up Josh's statement and reported it as confirmation from HP were incredibly irresponsible bits of reporting, not examples of HP telling lies.

    So far I have only seen references to Josh's obviously out-of-turn statement, and to Lisa Brewster's apology. If HP lied, show me the lie.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  19. FDP
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    #99  
    @Syndil
    You still aren't comprehending what a merger is, which is a pity because I have really tried.

    Josh Marinacci is HP's current developer advocate. His statement was on behalf of his employer and given in October of last year, long after HP acquired Palm. Had this statement been erroneous HP could have issued a correction in a timely fashion. Instead they waited until the night after a day of announcing things that they probably hoped would overshadow the news. They had four months to correct those news stories you are so upset about, and they did not issue any corrections.

    You keep trying to spin this, give up! You are completely and totally wrong and you don't have a leg to stand on. People have a right to ****ed off when a company lies to them. No motorcycles, girlfriends, or calling HP employees Palm employees will change that fact.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You're right. You didn't say it was a good plan, you said it was for their bottom line. You haven't explained how it improves their bottom line.
    I did several times. They will not support the old company's products. They threw you under the bus for their own products under their name. You want the new OS, buy a new HP phone or the TouchPad. You gave Palm your money, but not to HP. HP wants to now get you to spend money on HP products. If they continue to support Palm's legacy products, no new money for them.

    They also bought Palm for webOS, not exactly Palm's products. They've already said so, "we didn't buy Palm to enter the smartphone business". That's pretty clear, looking at the current fiasco. They're treating this like some sideline business. Otherwise they would have had these products ready to compete a lot sooner. Their mainstay is still printers, PCs, laptops and servers. They don't seem to have any problem releasing those on time. I'm still on their mailing list because of old purchases. I see what they are selling. Wanting webOS on PCs is pretty interesting.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if they are expecting losses from the Palm acquisition and then take a huge write off.

    P.S. It's late here and I'm a bit tired. I may have to clarify better in the morning, lol.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 02/16/2011 at 01:45 AM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!

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