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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I'm kind of hoping we'll hear more of that coming through Amazon. They have Amazon MP3 as default on webOS devices so if they make that better and then also setup an agreement for Amazon VOD that would take caure of that "HP Movie Store".

    It's very likely those release windows of Spring and Summer aren't because the devices aren't ready but because they are still hammering out media content agreements with other companies and services. HP is already a pretty estabilshed hardware provider so rather than doing what Apple does with controlling all their media distribution HP may instead see it as an advantage to go into partner agreements to let established companies manage those medias.
    Gosh, if only HP had a major forum that held the attention of the tech world for disseminating information to answer the concerns you voiced above.....if only...
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    How is the Pre 3 not cutting edge? It has features that match current top tier phones and phones coming out when it will be released.

    The lack of a dual core CPU was a choice they made. Would you rather have a dual core 1ghz phone or a single core 1.4ghz phone with the same performance? Remember having a 2nd core doesn't double performance. It's not linear.

    So please tell me what features the Pre 3 is missing that makes it lack the cutting edge label OP.
    It doesn't have that magnetic adapter that the Veer has!!!
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    How is the Pre 3 not cutting edge? It has features that match current top tier phones and phones coming out when it will be released.
    Oh, really now?
  4. #24  
    This is so much simpler than all that. The reason HP is sticking to their formfactor is that, first Palm, now HP, thinks they're Apple. The Pre is their iPhone. The key differentiator was that their iPhone had a keyboard. They are still convinced that is the key to success.

    They learned nothing from the failure of the Pre. They have managed to convince themselves that the Pre only failed because of Palm's lack of money and execution. They are convinced, as are many here, that with more money and better execution, the Pre will finally be the iPhone they envisioned it to be.

    Also, to come out with a slab is to admit that Apple's iPhone was better all along. They are hoping to do better with their iPad. They have decided to make as few modifications to the template as possible this time around. They still have too much pride to admit defeat with the Pre.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is so much simpler than all that. The reason HP is sticking to their formfactor is that, first Palm, now HP, thinks they're Apple. The Pre is their iPhone. The key differentiator was that their iPhone had a keyboard. They are still convinced that is the key to success.

    They learned nothing from the failure of the Pre. They have managed to convince themselves that the Pre only failed because of Palm's lack of money and execution. They are convinced, as are many here, that with more money and better execution, the Pre will finally be the iPhone they envisioned it to be.

    Also, to come out with a slab is to admit that Apple's iPhone was better all along. They are hoping to do better with their iPad. They have decided to make as few modifications to the template as possible this time around. They still have too much pride to admit defeat with the Pre.
    I think this plays some part, but in Ruby's speech, he kept mentioning how they were making devices for "professionals" and so on and so forth, so I think the portrait keyboard stubbornness is a "professionals = Blackberry-esque keyboard" thing.

    I guess HP's "vision" for phones is "Hope RIM dies".
  6. #26  
    ,edited.

    Certainly, HP has made it clear that they view their long-term strategy as developing a complete ecosystem which is what the consumer will be buying into, not the hot spec sheet phone for the quarter. I think we've only gotten a taste of what this ecosystem will look like by the end of the year, much less its ultimate development.

    Moreover, I think HP may view its immediate target as the business market. They've got sales strength there and easier targets for expansion (ie taking market share from RIM and Windows Mobile). In that case solid phones with top tier performance but a greater emphasis on functionality and reliability would be a good investment on HP's part.

    Gargoyle
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 02/11/2011 at 06:42 PM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post

    By that logic, neither does HP. Like Google, HP only designs the phone and then hands off the design to a manufacturer to make it. Big difference.
    No no no no no.

    Google does not have anything to do with designing the phones that run Android.

    They post the Android version open source and allow any company, any person, any where, for any reason to edit the software as long as they follow the GPL.


    The only possible phones that Google may have any say in is the Nexus lineup as those are their dev phones.



    Android is completely different than BB, IOS, and WebOS.
    It is ran completely different and a completely different monster all together.
  8. #28  
    ruby's statements about 'professionals' really was just another term for 'power users'.

    full featured, solid hardware, lots of horsepower, big enough screen to actually use for work. Like the gmc commercils 'we are professional grade.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is so much simpler than all that. The reason HP is sticking to their formfactor is that, first Palm, now HP, thinks they're Apple. The Pre is their iPhone. The key differentiator was that their iPhone had a keyboard. They are still convinced that is the key to success.

    They learned nothing from the failure of the Pre. They have managed to convince themselves that the Pre only failed because of Palm's lack of money and execution. They are convinced, as are many here, that with more money and better execution, the Pre will finally be the iPhone they envisioned it to be.

    Also, to come out with a slab is to admit that Apple's iPhone was better all along. They are hoping to do better with their iPad. They have decided to make as few modifications to the template as possible this time around. They still have too much pride to admit defeat with the Pre.
    Which makes little sense. Sticking with the Pre that is.

    The Pre has a gesture area. Using the kb, gesture area, and screen, many functions can be accomplished such as copy n paste. Devs design apps around this.

    The Touchpad has no gesture area. The Touchpad has no kb. The experience of using webOS on a Touchpad will be much different. Apps will have to be designed much differently.

    Obviously, HP is going to favor tablets and push em hard. The experience of using webOS on a Touchpad then needs to prevail. The one form factor in a phone which can come closest is ...drumroll please...a slab phone. One without a gesture area.

    One of the keys to iphone's (and ipad) success is keeping things consistent. By using an iphone, you already know how to use an ipad pretty much.

    WebOS devices need that consistency as well. Someone using a Touchpad should feel right at home using a webOS phone. I don't see this happening going from a touchpad to a Pre 3. Two vastly different webOS experiences.
  10. #30  
    This whole back and forth could get totally preempted if HP announces a slab next month. They've already told us about the March 14th announcement. They're internal memos clearly stated a new phone every 2 months. They still have either 3 or 4 phones (depends on if the Pre 2 counts in this mix) left to go. Does anyone here actually think the other 3 or 4 phones are all portrait sliders?

    Having seen how thin the Pre 3 is, you only need to add a virtual keyboard to make it a slab phone. It will just be one that also happens to have a slide out keyboard. I can easily see them announcing a horizontal version of the same basic phone. Horizontal sliders seem to be doing fine, so having a slide out keyboard isn't the issue, but we all know that portrait sliders aren't for everyone. I personally love the Pre form factor and the Pixi form factor. If the Pre 3 has a keyboard as good as the Pixi, and a very solid slider (i.e. one that can take some abuse and still be tight...or at least be tightened back up), then that's the phone for me. A phone without a keyboard = no sale from me. There are many like me. There are many who don't want a keyboard. There are many who don't care one way or the other.

    I would be happy with the Pre 2, Pre 3, or a new Pixi (faster, more RAM, slightly larger screen). It's clear that there are people here who won't be. More form factors will likely come to appease those folks, as it's been alluded too many times from sources within.

    As to the TouchPad, I think HP really, really, really should re-evaluate taking the gesture area off. I think that is a mistake. The gesture area has always been a key component to the webOS experience and leaving it on the phones, but taking it of the tablets, is a mistake. It breaks up the common feeling between devices.
  11. cgk
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    #31  
    They've already told us about the March 14th announcement.
    I don't know why people are fixated with the march 14th event, it's not a webOS event - it's a strategy event discussing the broad strategic changes that Leo is making to the company and it's expected to concentrate on the server area. So he might take about the broad direction of the platform, it's not the sort of event where you whip out a new device.
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    How to Launch a New Ecosystem - by HP

    Step 1 - Kill your current ecosystem by making practically all of your existing hardware base obsolete (i.e. will not run whatever software you've got coming this year).

    Step 2 ...
    Actually, HP has been doing this in the PC market as far back as the late 70's.

    Here are two stories from my personal experience.

    I worked for RCA at the time and HP sold upper management on buying more than 5 million dollars worth of equipment after a demo their pending EDA software. The equipment sat on the loading dock for 2 years after which HP let us know that (1) they decided to squash the EDA project, (2) they would not take back the equipment they sold us. It took 3 years of litigation before they were forced by the courts to take the equipment back.

    Also, I set up an accounting and inventory system for a small business. I worked closely with the HP to make sure it would suit their needs.

    Bottom line... It took 6 months to enter less than half the inventory information when the system died because the disk was full.

    HP's solution was to buy another machine. When I complained, they offered to sell me a bigger disk for more money than a new machine would cost. They finally settled on taking the machine back for a 50% stocking charge, afterward we bought from another vendor.

    HP used to be the most innovative test equipment company in the industry. I still have a bunch of equipment that is running perfectly after 30 years (and I still have my HP 45 calculator on display). In the computer industry they have made a name for themselves in the server market, but they have always floundered in the consumer market. Most of it had to do with customer support and quality (badly engineered cooling systems, etc.).

    Bottom line is that they can produce top quality and innovative stuff and have extremely bright engineers, but they still have no clue of Public and Customer Relations or customer support for the consumer market.
    Palm III->Palm IV->Palm V->M130->Tungsten->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 700->Palm Pre Plus->FrankenPre 2->Pre 3 & TouchPad
  13. #33  
    Removal of the gesture area on the tablet is probably a clue as to why we probably won't see a webOS 2.x slab. Slabs are little tablets and are expected to perform equally well in portrait and landscape. I always wanted more support for landscape on the Pre. The only thing that I think was preventing that was support of the gesture area in both orientations. So it is possible that we will see a slab running 3.0 (with no gesture area support) and support for 2.0 apps in emulation. But that definately makes things complicated for developers.
  14. #34  
    May I point out that the obvious - there are a gazillion Blackberry users out tere thay are the target of HP and not the Android and Apple fans who are maried to a virtual keyboard.

    I think it's clear that everyone in the industry including HP feels RIM is the weak target with an aging OS (see Nokia) - don't most of their phones have a physical keyboard? Their users don't seem to mind....
  15. #35  
    The Pre3 v's 4" slider poll is running 110:70 in favour of the Pre3
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    apple could have put out a stick of crap and it would have still been successful
    im my honest opinion they did ! i dont like apple and the ****** type lockdown they have on their stuff and never will use them . as a matter of fact i bought an ipod for my mother for christmas and returned it after i found out i had to sign up with itunes crappy service just to turn the stupid thing on . really thats crappy !!
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I don't know why people are fixated with the march 14th event, it's not a webOS event - it's a strategy event discussing the broad strategic changes that Leo is making to the company and it's expected to concentrate on the server area. So he might take about the broad direction of the platform, it's not the sort of event where you whip out a new device.
    Yes, and even if it was, they're not going to pop up and magically say:

    "Hey, we were just kidding about Spring and Summer last month. We're ready to execute product now. Awwww yeah! We just raised the ire of the WebOS community and misled journalists like Engadget asking us direct questions for well over a month to throw our competitors off the trail....you know...because they totally changed their pre-existing release dates based on us being non-committal on Feb. 9."
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    Disclaimer: This is all my own conjecture.

    I've already mentioned this in a few threads but I think it needs it's own.

    In Summary: If you aren't on board with this overarching vision HP has, and you prefer your smartphone life to be dominated by the cutting edge - it looks like WebOS will never be for you.


    HP has made it pretty clear in previous statements that they are not interested in jumping into the one-up hopscotch smartphone game with HTC, Apple, LG etc. They just aren't.

    They have no interest in trying to create multiple form factors to match everything else out there.

    They have no interest in trying to constantly have a phone on the market with the very tip-top specs that can be found. Those are games all the Android manufacturers are playing right now (with paper thin profit margins might I add).

    HP's intention with WebOS is a much much larger scale launch of an entirely new ecosystem. Cloud storage will be talked about next month, as well as other devices WebOS will hook into. They want you to be able to use your browser on your PC to essentially get a WebOS experience that live-syncs with your phone. This is where they are going.

    They want to make smartphones just so you have that end covered with their new end-to-end ecosystem. Period. That is their only goal with smartphones.

    In HP's mind, the only glass they envision you typing on is tablets. Perhaps they will launch a 5 inch phone/tablet at some point, I don't know. But their idea of a "smartphone" is pretty clear now.
    Or maybe they went with what they had at the moment. Case in point, the from factor of both phones. They have not even had webos for a year. Maybe they are at this very moment are making a slab, but to get something to market they went with the form factors at hand.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    No no no no no.

    Google does not have anything to do with designing the phones that run Android.

    They post the Android version open source and allow any company, any person, any where, for any reason to edit the software as long as they follow the GPL.


    The only possible phones that Google may have any say in is the Nexus lineup as those are their dev phones.



    Android is completely different than BB, IOS, and WebOS.
    It is ran completely different and a completely different monster all together.
    Well technically Google had say in the design of at least 2 phones, Nexus One and Nexus S.

    They might have had say in that G1 was it called? That first andorid phone that debuted the OS?
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Well technically Google had say in the design of at least 2 phones, Nexus One and Nexus S.

    They might have had say in that G1 was it called? That first andorid phone that debuted the OS?
    Yeah... I mentioned the Nexus lineup in my post?

    And it's possible when it comes to the G1...but I don't know...and haven't seen anything to confirm it's true.

    That's not even the point the fact is that Google does NOT design Android based phones.
    And that was the claim.
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