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  1. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #1  
    The biggest thing that came out of the announcement was almost 2 hours into it. That being the seeming intent of HP to bundle WebOS onto every PC. I imagine in a dual boot compactly most of the times. It seems to be their intent based on the statement regarding PC’s followed by reiterating how many PC’s and printers are sold every second.

    If they actually go forward with this, it’s going to be the most instrumental announcement from this entire presentation in the grand scheme of things. Part of what Apple has done so well was create an internal ecosystem where the use of one of their products essentially gives you some connection…be it feel, style, or usability…with the others. You started with iTunes, to the iPod, to the iPhone, to the iPad, to the new apple tv, to even now the desktop OS taking on aspects of it. Their various devices lend themselves to one another and facilitate developer and consumer interest as once you have one the desire is to have others for familiarity reasons.

    The biggest issue WebOS has right now is market penetration and recognition. If suddenly you’re having a multitude of PC’s using it alongside smart phones and tablets the penetration of the OS into the consumer mind and consciousness grows tremendously, as does developer desire to work with the platform.

    IF HP is able to manipulate hardware and the OS well enough to make WebOS stand up as a realistic Desktop option then it’s going to go a LONG way in helping WebOS land as a legitimate top 3 contender in the mobile OS department. It’d also create potentially the first massively distributed touch focused “Desktop” OS experience.

    HP’s future with WebOS is going to hinge I believe on its ability to translate it to computers, which will in turn help to further spur the success of the mobile devices.
  2. #2  
    The one thing you're missing with your ecosystem description is content. You're focused on the hardware when access to new, exciting, useful, unique, profitable, functional content is the real challenge in this business. HP did nothing today to explain how their new hardware will connect to content (except a couple of magazine subscriptions and the same Kindle app every other device already has). For example, something as simple as music gets this treatment on the Pre3:
    Quote Originally Posted by HP Website
    HP lets you listen to music files that you copy from your computer, receive as attachments or multimedia messages, or buy from the Amazon MP3 app on your phone.
    ...just like every $5.00 MP3 player in the checkout line of a grocery store.

    In ecosystem speak, HP has produced some a little bit of fauna, but they've left out all the flora. That's no ecosystem.
  3. cgk
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    #3  
    There were some photoshops of PCs and Printers with the words "HP Webos" on them, some vague mumbling about "the cloud" and then some equally vague talk about putting WebOS on PCs, no dates, no roadmaps, no nothing - it's completely meaningless at this stage.
  4. #4  
    If webOS is available on 100 million devices, the developers will come. It's a matter of simple economics.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    The one thing you're missing with your ecosystem description is content. You're focused on the hardware when access to new, exciting, useful, unique, profitable, functional content is the real challenge in this business. HP did nothing today to explain how their new hardware will connect to content (except a couple of magazine subscriptions and the same Kindle app every other device already has). For example, something as simple as music gets this treatment on the Pre3:
    ...just like every $5.00 MP3 player in the checkout line of a grocery store.

    In ecosystem speak, HP has produced some a little bit of fauna, but they've left out all the flora. That's no ecosystem.

    Their content system is fine. It sounds to me like you're taking issue with the fact they are not planning to strangle hold content delivery systems like Apple does. Apple makes a lot of money from their content delivery which is why they make it so difficult for companies to delivery to their devices through methods other than iTunes or their app store. Also if that Sony incident and the changes to their iTunes policies are any indication, that "same" Kindle app on every plat form may not be the same on a certain platform in the near future.

    HP's content "ecosystem" feels a lot nicer and works a lot better for those not wanting to use a system under a strangle hold. HP seems to want to court developers and content distributors rather than just say "do this our way or you don't get to participate".
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Their content system is fine. It sounds to me like you're taking issue with the fact they are not planning to strangle hold content delivery systems like Apple does. Apple makes a lot of money from their content delivery which is why they make it so difficult for companies to delivery to their devices through methods other than iTunes or their app store. Also if that Sony incident and the changes to their iTunes policies are any indication, that "same" Kindle app on every plat form may not be the same on a certain platform in the near future.

    HP's content "ecosystem" feels a lot nicer and works a lot better for those not wanting to use a system under a strangle hold. HP seems to want to court developers and content distributors rather than just say "do this our way or you don't get to participate".
    "Seems to want to court developers and content distributors" and "has an ecosystem" are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid.

    EVERY platform wants to court developers and content distributors. Aside from Time, they announced nothing other platforms have and very little that other platforms do (Sirius/XM, Comixology, Netflix, Hulu, Comcast, etc.).
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by empathyrus View Post
    If webOS is available on 100 million devices, the developers will come. It's a matter of simple economics.
    Not if those 100 million devices are sitting in a warehouse collecting dust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antarese
    Their content system is fine. It sounds to me like you're taking issue with the fact they are not planning to strangle hold content delivery systems like Apple does. Apple makes a lot of money from their content delivery which is why they make it so difficult for companies to delivery to their devices through methods other than iTunes or their app store. Also if that Sony incident and the changes to their iTunes policies are any indication, that "same" Kindle app on every plat form may not be the same on a certain platform in the near future.
    To use a couple of analogies, Apple's ecosystem is akin to the Garden of Eden where everything is provided, but you have to play by the rules to stay in the garden or face Apple's wrath.

    HP's "ecosystem" is like a Roman gladiator arena. They give you a sword then kick you out into the arena and say, "Find your own content to survive."

    Neither is perfect, but only one of them provides an incentive to consumers at large.
  8. #8  
    I've said it other places. This is not a bad strategy. It is VERY, VERY late to the game. The smartphone market is getting very mature. Until there are battery life breakthroughs, there is not much else in terms of based functionality we should expect from phones. Market share at this juncture in the phone world is BIG.

    Tablets are new and there is time. If the movement is from phone to tablet, HP is at a disadvantage. If it's from PC/Mac to tablet, they have a good chance.

    The real issue is that their announcement was underwhelming and will allow Android and Apple to increase their lead. Maybe that was inevitable, but I can't help but be disappointed. years from now, they may be able to use the corporate Avenue to take back the pad and thereby go after the phone.
  9. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #9  
    Kupe....

    First, if they do what it seems to be the logical path which is allow dual booting on their Windows PC's, then unless you're suggesting HP's going to suddenly stop selling computers they're not going to be sitting in a warehouse

    Second, every ecosystem needs a foundation. This provides a foundation. You're not magically going to get every content provider and every developer on your side right off the bat with little reason for it. Apple's original iPhone didn't have nearly as much developer support initially from big names as it had now, but it had the benefit of a solid foundation for its ecosystem already built in.

    If HP starts loading their PC's to either dual boot WebOS as an "instant on" OS or equips the vast majority of their printers with some version of it then the OS is going to penetrate the market in a significant way. If such a strategy is successful it provides a reason for developers to truly latch onto the OS. It suddenly becomes something more than just an OS with a 2% niche in the mobile market, but something loaded on every computer made by the HP whose the largest computer retailer on the world.

    Is it unquestionably destined to occur? No, there's large ways to bungle it. But if they go about this the right way they can create a significant user base to give incentive for developers to join in. It also creates an environment where HP can invest time and energy into continuing to update WebOS, which they're clearly invested in, to make it a more and more ubiquitous service with the various devices.

    WebOS 2.0 was clearly designed for the next gen of smart phones and came out on the Pre2 simply to get some pub during the lag. WebOS 3.0 was put out in line with the Tablet. I think its realistic to think that when its time to launch on Desktops they will have a tweaked the OS to be not just useful on the desktop but to help connect that experience to the rest of the WebOS experience as they've started to do with Smartphones and the Tablet.

    You can't begin to build a fully flourishing externally participated in ecosystem until your internal foundation of it is sound. Combining WebOS on their desktops provides the chance for that foundation.
  10. cgk
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    #10  
    First, if they do what it seems to be the logical path which is allow dual booting on their Windows PC's
    Why would I want to dual-boot my PC to use a OS designed for touch on a small-screen device? I've don't quite grasp what the benefit is?

    Anyway - is it likely they are going to do that? it's more likely going to be a layer on a windows 7 PC in the same way that touch smart is.
  11. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Why would I want to dual-boot my PC to use a OS designed for touch on a small-screen device? I've don't quite grasp what the benefit is?
    The new OS and enyo frame work seems to focus design instead not on small-screen devices but for a set resolution to transcend multiple devices. They've shown with WebOS 3.0 a willingness to modify the core OS to allow it to fit the purpose of the device better while maintaining that universal resolution scheme to allow for application scaling. It would not be entirely difficult to create the ability to utilize a mouse in place of a finger on non-touch screen devices.

    Anyway - is it likely they are going to do that? it's more likely going to be a layer on a windows 7 PC in the same way that touch smart is.
    I think it'll definitely get applied to the touch smarts. I just wouldn't be shocked if it ended up going on all their PC's. They made it a point, after talking about webOS on computers, to point out again how many computers they sell per minute seeming to suggest that number could soon represent the number of WebOS devices hitting the market a minute. If that's the case there's only two ways to do that....ditch Windows entirely or dual boot. I think the logical answer would be dual boot.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You can't begin to build a fully flourishing externally participated in ecosystem until your internal foundation of it is sound. Combining WebOS on their desktops provides the chance for that foundation.
    I disagree. 1. Google built an entire ecosystem, let outside developers/hardware start flourishing in it before beginning to build their own hardware to integrate into it. 2. Apple built a 1-device ecosystem (iPod + iTunes) with no other connections to anything else, but at least it was an ecosystem. In the past decade they have steadily and carefully expended both the ecosystem and the devices supported by it to get where they are today.

    HP? They built some hardware. The end. There's no ecosystem unless you consider an integrated contacts list and chat client to be "integrating." How about real ecosystem activities? You want to store/share files? With HP you go find your own third-party service. You want to sync your music to your device? Drag and drop it from your computer and figure out the syncing part yourself. You want to rent/watch a movie on your device? "Someday" there might be software for that, but it's not yet announced. Using third party services in and of itself is not bad - but it should be integrated with the user's experience not some sort of blank slate the user needs to fill in.

    So as a consumer looking for a "next-generation" device that is both functional and connected, I scan the marketplace and see Nokia, iOS, Android, RIM, WP, and HP. In those choices, where will my needs most likely be met? Hint: check out market share trends over the last year. For the average consumer, iOS and Android are the only ones filling the bill fully, with RIM covering the business front and just beginning to get into the consumer side. With HP, it's just YADDA (Yet Another Delayed Device Attempt).
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The new OS and enyo frame work seems to focus design instead not on small-screen devices but for a set resolution to transcend multiple devices. They've shown with WebOS 3.0 a willingness to modify the core OS to allow it to fit the purpose of the device better while maintaining that universal resolution scheme to allow for application scaling. It would not be entirely difficult to create the ability to utilize a mouse in place of a finger on non-touch screen devices.



    I think it'll definitely get applied to the touch smarts. I just wouldn't be shocked if it ended up going on all their PC's. They made it a point, after talking about webOS on computers, to point out again how many computers they sell per minute seeming to suggest that number could soon represent the number of WebOS devices hitting the market a minute. If that's the case there's only two ways to do that....ditch Windows entirely or dual boot. I think the logical answer would be dual boot.
    And people who have bought windows for the past 20+ years are going to start buying non-windows computers? I think we forget that in the PC market share Microsoft is still king and will be for a quite a while. Although with the way things are moving faster and faster maybe Hp will have a chance to change the PC world. I just don't know if it is enough. Windows 7 on a SSD is pretty dang fast to boot and this is on an underpowered laptop. Lastly if it is offered as dual-boot. I bet 80% of hp's consumer customer don't ever boot into anything other windows unless it is by accident.

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