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  1.    #1  
    With HP's announcement coming soon, I wanted to ask a question to the people who believe that the past speaks for itself. Why is it you think developers will NOT be interested in WebOS?

    Before, yes, there was reason. A name like Palm -- although a Godfather in the industry -- was a old, dying Godfather and developer community did not take a chance on that platform. But now HP -- the largest name in the computer industry -- owns WebOS and will be showing their plans for it next week.

    Don't think that means anything? Look at Microsoft, who has had less time then Palm to get apps, and now has more apps then the entire WebOS library. I mean, that must mean those devices are practically falling off the shelves and into the hands of consumers, no?

    Well ... that didn't happen, did it? It was because Microsoft is another large name in the industry. Because Windows Phone 7 had backing with multiple vendors and of course, the company that is on the majority of PC's in the world is now making a NEW Mobile OS.

    And, for those who still don't think HP is getting developer interest, isn't the developer conference on Feb 9th full? To me that appears HP has their interest and that they are willing to see the potential sales they could make with WebOS.

    And thats my rant for the day.
  2. #2  
    Look, some developers will always be there at launch. Those will be the insiders that HP selects like Palm did at launch. There will be others that want to sell an app that has made no headway on other platforms or the author wants to take advantage of new functionality in WebOS.

    What is needed is enough installed base that websites (all companies have them), feel it necessary to develop for your platform to reach their existing or potential customer base.

    For quite awhile, iPhone was the only player. No Blackberry apps, no Android - NOthing. Then, as Android became a bigger player, companies decided they needed to add it to reach their market. HP does that by selling devices to create installed base. Even for Android that flooded the market from myriad manufacturers, that takes time.

    I suspect, HP has a strategy to sell devices that includes at-launch apps and at-launch developer commitments. The hope is that these two things will lead to enough installed base to bring the others on.

    Example ThinkOrSwim. This high-end brokerage has a corporate-clientele that has iPhones, Blackberry's and Windows Mobile. They have an app for each, but no Android or WebOS. They may get Android, but went Windows mobile because of their customer base. WebOS has to be in the game with the customer base of enough websites to get and stay in the mix.
  3. ggendel's Avatar
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    #3  
    I'm chomping at the bit to give Enyo a go.
    Palm III->Palm IV->Palm V->M130->Tungsten->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 700->Palm Pre Plus->FrankenPre 2->Pre 3 & TouchPad
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    With HP's announcement coming soon, I wanted to ask a question to the people who believe that the past speaks for itself. Why is it you think developers will NOT be interested in WebOS?

    Before, yes, there was reason. A name like Palm -- although a Godfather in the industry -- was a old, dying Godfather and developer community did not take a chance on that platform. But now HP -- the largest name in the computer industry -- owns WebOS and will be showing their plans for it next week.

    Don't think that means anything? Look at Microsoft, who has had less time then Palm to get apps, and now has more apps then the entire WebOS library. I mean, that must mean those devices are practically falling off the shelves and into the hands of consumers, no?

    Well ... that didn't happen, did it? It was because Microsoft is another large name in the industry. Because Windows Phone 7 had backing with multiple vendors and of course, the company that is on the majority of PC's in the world is now making a NEW Mobile OS.

    And, for those who still don't think HP is getting developer interest, isn't the developer conference on Feb 9th full? To me that appears HP has their interest and that they are willing to see the potential sales they could make with WebOS.

    And thats my rant for the day.
    I wouldn't be surprised if M$ paid some developers to ready apps for launch of the phone. It's a tactic many, myself included, feel HP should consider. If HP hits it out of the park or at least gets phones moving in a manner that the user base increases very positively, then I can see many devs looking back into webOS as a viable platform to develop for. Tablets will help as some may buy a tablet, but pass on the phones. It's a waiting game at this point.

    Some have also said that there are apps waiting in the wings for webOS 2.x to be released. I'm not sure that I agree with this, but if true, we could see an increase in app releases once 2.x is released to all the older phones. On second thought, yes I do agree as some developers ARE waiting for Enyo's release which is related to 2.x. Enyo should bring some new interest to webOS.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    Look, some developers will always be there at launch. Those will be the insiders that HP selects like Palm did at launch. There will be others that want to sell an app that has made no headway on other platforms or the author wants to take advantage of new functionality in WebOS.

    What is needed is enough installed base that websites (all companies have them), feel it necessary to develop for your platform to reach their existing or potential customer base.

    For quite awhile, iPhone was the only player. No Blackberry apps, no Android - NOthing. Then, as Android became a bigger player, companies decided they needed to add it to reach their market. HP does that by selling devices to create installed base. Even for Android that flooded the market from myriad manufacturers, that takes time.

    I suspect, HP has a strategy to sell devices that includes at-launch apps and at-launch developer commitments. The hope is that these two things will lead to enough installed base to bring the others on.

    Example ThinkOrSwim. This high-end brokerage has a corporate-clientele that has iPhones, Blackberry's and Windows Mobile. They have an app for each, but no Android or WebOS. They may get Android, but went Windows mobile because of their customer base. WebOS has to be in the game with the customer base of enough websites to get and stay in the mix.
    First off, I just had to point out -- even before Blacberry had an official app store -- which they do now -- they had apps before the iPhone's app store. It was something you had to go and find, it was not something easy to find (which is what made the App Store so popular).

    Second, I do agree with EVERYTHING you just said. I do agree that HP -- to have full developer support -- will need a large base, thats also critical to continued support. But the problem is there are people out there who believe Apple and Google are the only companies have any interest to develop for. They don't want to develop for BB, WebOS, or Windows Phone 7. But that is not the case. Developers are interested in developing for all these platforms, and apparently a lot of developers are coming to see what HP has to offer next week.

    So again, we agree. This rant for the people who disagree with you and I!
  6. rkguy's Avatar
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    #6  
    I think that in the future (the distant future, the year 2000), dedicated apps will go by the wayside for most websites. Instead, mobile websites themselves will be coded to have hooks in them for specific platforms.

    probably blackberry OS (ala playbook), one for webOS, one for android

    A good example of this is google voice. Right now if you go to the mobile site, it opens the phone app, but with proper javascript using HTML5 it will be easy for the user to talk VoIP straight through the mobile website. no app necessary.

    If webOS does it right, websites will feel just like apps, with geospatial location, recording audio or video straight to a website, etc.
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    If webOS does it right, websites will feel just like apps, with geospatial location, recording audio or video straight to a website, etc.
    That would be pretty cool.

    Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
    Want to keep up with my exciting new projects? You know where to find me.
  8. #8  
    It's really simple, actually. Unless HP pushes a ton of webOS devices and takes a chunk out of the market share, webOS will never have the third party support that iOS and Android sees today.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett92C View Post
    That would be pretty cool.

    Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
    I second that!!

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    It's really simple, actually. Unless HP pushes a ton of webOS devices and takes a chunk out of the market share, webOS will never have the third party support that iOS and Android sees today.
    Thats the thing -- HP has the resources and ability to do just that. And if they play their cards right MOST people won't know HP WebOS devices is Palm and they would think it's HP all the way (assuming they re-brand Palm). Which will help in perception of WebOS.

    Quote Originally Posted by brswa View Post
    Simply put, they did. Microsoft paid some devs with cold, hard cash for WP7 apps.

    Well put about the devs. More people = more business for devs. It's a snowball effect.

    HP, pull a Google and give every dev at your event a tablet and smartphone. It would be a good headstart on rebooting your platform!
    I am confused about exactly what your saying.
  10. Xacto01's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    I think that in the future (the distant future, the year 2000), dedicated apps will go by the wayside for most websites. Instead, mobile websites themselves will be coded to have hooks in them for specific platforms.

    probably blackberry OS (ala playbook), one for webOS, one for android

    A good example of this is google voice. Right now if you go to the mobile site, it opens the phone app, but with proper javascript using HTML5 it will be easy for the user to talk VoIP straight through the mobile website. no app necessary.

    If webOS does it right, websites will feel just like apps, with geospatial location, recording audio or video straight to a website, etc.
    Thats what Google is betting on with their chrome browser laptop. It maybe too early for that, but Google and Palm shared the same vision it seems.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Don't think that means anything? Look at Microsoft, who has had less time then Palm to get apps, and now has more apps then the entire WebOS library. I mean, that must mean those devices are practically falling off the shelves and into the hands of consumers, no?

    Well ... that didn't happen, did it? It was because Microsoft is another large name in the industry. Because Windows Phone 7 had backing with multiple vendors and of course, the company that is on the majority of PC's in the world is now making a NEW Mobile OS.

    And, for those who still don't think HP is getting developer interest, isn't the developer conference on Feb 9th full? To me that appears HP has their interest and that they are willing to see the potential sales they could make with WebOS.

    And thats my rant for the day.
    You know Microsoft paid the hell out of devs to develop for WP7 right?
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    We always prefer that people donate in response to tangible items they can use today, rather than for intangible promises about the future that may or may not be possible to achieve.
  12. philbw's Avatar
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    #12  
    It all comes down to hybrid apps really. webOS is pretty much the only major platform left that you can't port over c/c++ code from another platform and slap a decent ui on it and be done. It either has to be *all* html/jsjsjs/$css$ $or$ *$all$* $c$/$c$++ $paired$ $with$ $SDL$ $or$ $OpenGL$ ($aka$ $games$). $From$ $the$ $sounds$ $of$ $things$ $this$ $will$ $no$ $longer$ $be$ $the$ $case$ $very$ $soon$. $It$ $is$ $then$ $I$ $garuntee$ $you$ $developers$ $from$ $near$ $and$ $far$ $will$ $take$ $webOS$ $seriously$.

    - Phil -
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoraWare View Post
    It all comes down to hybrid apps really. webOS is pretty much the only major platform left that you can't port over c/c++ code from another platform and slap a decent ui on it and be done. It either has to be *all* html/jsjsjs/$css$ $or$ *$all$* $c$/$c$++ $paired$ $with$ $SDL$ $or$ $OpenGL$ ($aka$ $games$). $From$ $the$ $sounds$ $of$ $things$ $this$ $will$ $no$ $longer$ $be$ $the$ $case$ $very$ $soon$. $It$ $is$ $then$ $I$ $garuntee$ $you$ $developers$ $from$ $near$ $and$ $far$ $will$ $take$ $webOS$ $seriously$.

    - Phil -
    I think this is what people dont realize. While the pdk did allow for c/c++ easy conversions, it does not allow for actual mojo related functions because it allows for ONLY c/c++ not in combination with system coding. Once the pdk allpws fpr hybrid apps, devs can so easily port over many, many apps website apps, shopping apps and many many more apps im sure. Atleast this is what i beleive more experienced devs chime in
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by rexalbel View Post
    I think this is what people dont realize. While the pdk did allow for c/c++ easy conversions, it does not allow for actual mojo related functions because it allows for ONLY c/c++ not in combination with system coding. Once the pdk allpws fpr hybrid apps, devs can so easily port over many, many apps website apps, shopping apps and many many more apps im sure. Atleast this is what i beleive more experienced devs chime in
    If it's not a game, then it's not really "portable".
  15. stockh's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoraWare View Post
    developers from near and far will take webOS seriously.

    - Phil -
    The only way webOS can be taken seriously with developers is if webOS starts to gain marketshare. Most large developers will only consider releasing an app if it has the potential to reach a LARGE number of users. WebOS's current market share doesn't even show on the radar.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    It's really simple, actually. Unless HP pushes a ton of webOS devices and takes a chunk out of the market share, webOS will never have the third party support that iOS and Android sees today.
    "NEVER". I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure people said that Palm would never outdo Apple's Newton. Or maybe that Apple wouldn't dent RIM or that Android would never dent Apple. "Never" in computing is way too long.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    "NEVER". I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure people said that Palm would never outdo Apple's Newton. Or maybe that Apple wouldn't dent RIM or that Android would never dent Apple. "Never" in computing is way too long.
    I'm not saying webOS will never have the market share needed to attract developers, I'm only saying that if they don't capture some sort of market share then the likeliness of webOS seeing the amount of developers that Android and iOS sees probably will never happen.
  18. #18  
    Also, about the "Microsoft paid developers to get WP7 apps" meme....don't get it twisted. While MS did give "profit guarantees" with some of the bigger apps, they got WAY ahead of the WP7 launch and had development relations teams seeding vendors and developers with devices.

    I know because they came to the huge retailer I work for and gave us every possible tool and piece of prototype hardware we would need to develop an app, and sure enough, we're set to create a WP7 app in conjunction with or shortly after our Android one goes live this Spring.

    And beyond large "gets" like us, lots of smaller developers jumped in because they loved the tools and only JUST NOW saw the first royalty payments for their apps.

    Yes, you need to sell devices and such, but as Microsoft is showing, you have to get the devices and much, much better development tools than what WebOS has out to developers and work extensively with them. A developer coupon here or a developer day there isn't sufficient by a long shot.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Also, about the "Microsoft paid developers to get WP7 apps" meme....don't get it twisted. While MS did give "profit guarantees" with some of the bigger apps, they got WAY ahead of the WP7 launch and had development relations teams seeding vendors and developers with devices.

    I know because they came to the huge retailer I work for and gave us every possible tool and piece of prototype hardware we would need to develop an app, and sure enough, we're set to create a WP7 app in conjunction with or shortly after our Android one goes live this Spring.

    And beyond large "gets" like us, lots of smaller developers jumped in because they loved the tools and only JUST NOW saw the first royalty payments for their apps.

    Yes, you need to sell devices and such, but as Microsoft is showing, you have to get the devices and much, much better development tools than what WebOS has out to developers and work extensively with them. A developer coupon here or a developer day there isn't sufficient by a long shot.
    that is true, but do anyone know what steps HP has taken so far in attracting developers? or even Microsoft? Its of course all speculation I know, and we will of course soon see what if any they did once the products are announced, shipped, and what new applications are available. Though you say Developers have more tools with WP7 then they do for Webos, then how come WP7 still dosent have the basic of features like cut and paste yet? Or certain 3rd party support. If they are missing currently could it be that the tools are not there yet? no one knows, but last time I checked with the last update to 2.0, developers has access to all the basic features you need to make a solid application at this point. As also stating we don't know what HP has offered to developers, or what developers has on board do we. I say lets wait and see what come to fruitation on the 9th before we speculate hard against what HP is doing.
  20. #20  
    Win 7 phones use visual studios 10 along with c# for development. C# is one of the easiest languages to use and combine that with the power of visual studios and it's easy to make apps. I make a w7 app for grad school in 30 minutes.

    Now, switch to ares and webos and it gets much more complicated if you are inexperienced with jsjsjs, $html$ $and$ $css$. $I$ $have$ $decided$ $that$ $I$ $will$ $learn$ $these$ $languages$ $just$ $to$ $be$ $able$ $to$ $develop$ $webos$ $apps$ $but$ $many$ $developers$ $won$'$t$.

    I make a tip calculator app last night for webos and I got stuck trying to add an array of doubles to a list UI object. All the examples told me to use this.controller.setWidgetModel("numberList", this.listModel) but when I debugged my app, this.controller.setWidgetModel was undefined. ***? Still trying to wrap my head around "this" and its scope in jsjsjs.

    Make better tools or produce better documentation and the developers will come.

    I'm going to develop for webos if it takes me a whole year to figure it out!
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