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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    that is true, but do anyone know what steps HP has taken so far in attracting developers? or even Microsoft? Its of course all speculation I know,
    As I said in my example, we would be a significant "get" and Microsoft targeted us long before WP7 launched. At no point has HP approached our mobile development team. Our iOS mobile app is not just a frontend for our mobile site. As such, it's not a matter of quickly porting it to another platform in three days or whatever. Microsoft's team really made it easy for our developers to get into their design language so it looks like a WP7 app, not a generic port.

    and we will of course soon see what if any they did once the products are announced, shipped, and what new applications are available. Though you say Developers have more tools with WP7 then they do for Webos, then how come WP7 still dosent have the basic of features like cut and paste yet? Or certain 3rd party support.
    Cut and Paste has nothing to do with development, and as with any new platform, some are playing "Wait and See". Nonetheless, they are sitting at around 7200 apps right now, and have surpassed 19 months of the WebOS app catalog in just 3. They are doing something right that Palm and HP are not doing.

    If they are missing currently could it be that the tools are not there yet? no one knows, but last time I checked with the last update to 2.0, developers has access to all the basic features you need to make a solid application at this point. As also stating we don't know what HP has offered to developers, or what developers has on board do we. I say lets wait and see what come to fruitation on the 9th before we speculate hard against what HP is doing.
    I'm not really speculating. More like observing. I just happened to use the company I work for as a use case.

    It sounds okay, but "Wait and See" has kind of been the mantra for WebOS from jump street, and that doesn't excite a developer who needs to work NOW and make money NOW. The last IDC developer survey - which came weeks after the HP announcement - showed interest in WebOS develop DROPPING almost twenty percent.

    Let me emphasize that. Twenty percent. Larger than any other dying platform including Symbian, Blackberry, and Meego.

    That means whatever private measures HP may or may not be taking to spur development are being offset by growing public disdain.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    As I said in my example, we would be a significant "get" and Microsoft targeted us long before WP7 launched. At no point has HP approached our mobile development team. Our iOS mobile app is not just a frontend for our mobile site. As such, it's not a matter of quickly porting it to another platform in three days or whatever. Microsoft's team really made it easy for our developers to get into their design language so it looks like a WP7 app, not a generic port.



    Cut and Paste has nothing to do with development, and as with any new platform, some are playing "Wait and See". Nonetheless, they are sitting at around 7200 apps right now, and have surpassed 19 months of the WebOS app catalog in just 3. They are doing something right that Palm and HP are not doing.



    I'm not really speculating. More like observing. I just happened to use the company I work for as a use case.

    It sounds okay, but "Wait and See" has kind of been the mantra for WebOS from jump street, and that doesn't excite a developer who needs to work NOW and make money NOW. The last IDC developer survey - which came weeks after the HP announcement - showed interest in WebOS develop DROPPING almost twenty percent.

    Let me emphasize that. Twenty percent. Larger than any other dying platform including Symbian, Blackberry, and Meego.

    That means whatever private measures HP may or may not be taking to spur development are being offset by growing public disdain.
    I understand your company with which HP has not approached, but how can you base just that assumption and say they havent approached other developers? Of course WP7 at this point has alot of apps currently they have fresh hardware out, and HP does not. Plus the fact until HP starts to relaunch HP webos not Palm webos next week, it has been soley on Palm shoulders for developer interest, and we all know they pretty much failed before the buyout. So I still need to see how HP does with Webos (a large company like microsoft with more branches to bring in developers better then a small company like Palm could have) before I start comparing apples and oranges. Yet HP did have the coming soon signs for a while it dosent apply any longer with giving developers and others a solid date, and having looks to have put their ducks in order to do so. Im not sure how long it takes for a company to take over a mobile company, intergrate it into your system, develop a pipeline with products, then execute it do you?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    I understand your company with which HP has not approached, but how can you base just that assumption and say they havent approached other developers?
    Well, there's also the matter of the survey I linked to which shows interest plummeting between September 2010 and January 2011, which is ostensibly the period in which HP would be approaching developers right and left to have something ready for February 2011. There's the slow rate of releases daily in the App Catalog as noted here on PreCentral's front page.

    I know that HP is amassing a "secret stash" to announce on Feb. 9, but as I already said...the developers not in the know (i.e. the vast, vast majority of developers) are over it. The survey shows as much.

    Of course WP7 at this point has alot of apps currently they have fresh hardware out, and HP does not. Plus the fact until HP starts to relaunch HP webos not Palm webos next week, it has been soley on Palm shoulders for developer interest, and we all know they pretty much failed before the buyout.
    That's not the case at all. If HP has anything to announce regarding an ecosystem or apps on Feb. 9, it's because they've been meeting with anyone who will see them in confidential, NDAed sessions about creating apps for WebOS, and specifically tablet-oriented apps. Basically, the same situation that WP7 was in up until October. I assure you that they lined up the majority of the people behind these first 7200 apps before a single device was sold. Besides, HP JUST released a "fresh developer device" right when WP7 launched.

    So I still need to see how HP does with Webos (a large company like microsoft with more branches to bring in developers better then a small company like Palm could have) before I start comparing apples and oranges. Yet HP did have the coming soon signs for a while it dosent apply any longer with giving developers and others a solid date, and having looks to have put their ducks in order to do so. Im not sure how long it takes for a company to take over a mobile company, intergrate it into your system, develop a pipeline with products, then execute it do you?
    It's (the period of time it takes to do all of that) irrelevant if they are constantly making effective public overtures to ensnare developers beyond the biggest names. They aren't, and that's what I'm trying to show you. Shouldn't developer interest be building moving toward your big launch?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Well, there's also the matter of the survey I linked to which shows interest plummeting between September 2010 and January 2011, which is ostensibly the period in which HP would be approaching developers right and left to have something ready for February 2011. There's the slow rate of releases daily in the App Catalog as noted here on PreCentral's front page.

    I know that HP is amassing a "secret stash" to announce on Feb. 9, but as I already said...the developers not in the know (i.e. the vast, vast majority of developers) are over it. The survey shows as much.



    That's not the case at all. If HP has anything to announce regarding an ecosystem or apps on Feb. 9, it's because they've been meeting with anyone who will see them in confidential, NDAed sessions about creating apps for WebOS, and specifically tablet-oriented apps. Basically, the same situation that WP7 was in up until October. I assure you that they lined up the majority of the people behind these first 7200 apps before a single device was sold. Besides, HP JUST released a "fresh developer device" right when WP7 launched.



    It's (the period of time it takes to do all of that) irrelevant if they are constantly making effective public overtures to ensnare developers beyond the biggest names. They aren't, and that's what I'm trying to show you. Shouldn't developer interest be building moving toward your big launch?

    again what data are you relating your stance behind? if you have data links, surveys that state HP has spoken to this developer (rather it be major or minor) and that developer has stated they are not interested then I can see your point. Otherwise it is still your opinion, thats what I am saying. So please if you can provide me with that specific data.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    again what data are you relating your stance behind? if you have data links, surveys that state HP has spoken to this developer (rather it be major or minor) and that developer has stated they are not interested then I can see your point. Otherwise it is still your opinion, thats what I am saying. So please if you can provide me with that specific data.
    I just linked to a survey of 2,235 developers. I guess their last names fell under R-Z and HP just hadn't gotten around to them yet? Oh, and they didn't know any of the A-Q developers that HP spoke to and got excited?

    Come on, man. It's not an opinion. It amazes me that you will allow for any number of positive possibilities based on nothing but hope, but when I show you something not as complimentary based on relevant, recent data, you're quick to dismiss it.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I just linked to a survey of 2,235 developers. I guess their last names fell under R-Z and HP just hadn't gotten around to them yet? Oh, and they didn't know any of the A-Q developers that HP spoke to and got excited?

    Come on, man. It's not an opinion. It amazes me that you will allow for any number of positive possibilities based on nothing but hope, but when I show you something not as complimentary based on relevant, recent data, you're quick to dismiss it.
    come on nothing you still havent sent me the link showing you see these numbers. As well as if what your seeing is valid, its again your word against mine which dont hold ish period without proof. YOU HAVENT SHOWN ME JACK, SEND ME A LINK
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Post 21, my dude. Top of this page. You know...the post you quoted in its entirety in post 22?

    If I could put it in blinking, flaming text, I guess I would. No offense, but do you fully read the stuff I write before responding to it? I am genuinely curious.
    first it shows on the first page that webos interest in the tablet part went from 0 to 16% alone. It shows from 09/10 to 01/10 so how would it get to that if they are not talking to developers. Im hoping you cant expect a huge number since they prob had no products to show.

    Appcelerator IDC Mobile Developer Report, January 2011 | Appcelerator

    its shows webos phones on page 4 at 13%

    Appcelerator IDC Mobile Developer Report, January 2011 | Appcelerator

    quoted here by them on page 5:

    Compared to webOS tablet and MeeGo device no-shows, these two players remain solidly in the game for developer mindshare.

    Appcelerator IDC Mobile Developer Report, January 2011 | Appcelerator


    and thats even how they stated without any hint of a device that has been out yet. WP7 debouted last year Q4, before that (which im going to get that data for you now) unless you know what were the numbers of developers interested in developing for WP7 before any smartphone was introduced? the numbers show me solid interest from developers on a platform that has nothing new out, or to show. Even the editor here states the same (see about quote) so im not understanding your point. Again most developers interest will rise once products are announced, seen and used, and are being sold all of which we have to wait for Feb 9th, and going forward if it has some sort of success.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Let me emphasize that. Twenty percent. Larger than any other dying platform including Symbian, Blackberry, and Meego.
    Even Blackberry managed to increase developer interest 12% during that same time period.
  9. #29  
    also is this the link you were refereing to when you stated:

    I just linked to a survey of 2,235 developers. I guess their last names fell under R-Z and HP just hadn't gotten around to them yet? Oh, and they didn't know any of the A-Q developers that HP spoke to and got excited?

    Im asking, and yes for your smart A comment I read your stuff, be easy with that.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Even Blackberry managed to increase developer interest 12% during that same time period.
    right, and didnt they show off the playbook last year? So Webos gained 16% from 09/10 to 01/10 without showing off anything regarding a tablet, not even a measly picture. If Im reading the chart correctly showing the light red of 09/10 and dark red 01/10?
  11. #31  
    At my school, microsoft issue a development contest to the cs students with prizes.

    HP hasn't done anything like that and most of the students know about webos let alone develop for it.

    HP needs to get people excited about development, not just new hardware.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    first it shows on the first page that webos interest in the tablet part went from 0 to 16% alone.
    It's gotta go from zero to somewhere. Obviously, SOME developers are invested in the platform or else Derek would have NO new apps to report on daily.

    But again, note that the number is dwarfed by other tablet platforms that haven't even hit the market yet like the Playbook. This is not an achievement.

    Which is a drop of TWENTY PERCENT in the months LEADING up to the announcement, hence my point in this thread.

    and thats even how they stated without any hint of a device that has been out yet. WP7 debouted last year Q4, before that (which im going to get that data for you now) unless you know what were the numbers of developers interested in developing for WP7 before any smartphone was introduced? the numbers show me solid interest from developers on a platform that has nothing new out, or to show. Even the editor here states the same (see about quote) so im not understanding your point. Again most developers interest will rise once products are announced, seen and used, and are being sold all of which we have to wait for Feb 9th, and going forward if it has some sort of success.
    Huh? The sentence reads as follows:

    "Windows Phone 7 and BlackBerry phones posted solid gains on their new product launches. Compared to webOS tablet and MeeGo device no-shows, these two players remain solidly in the game for developer mindshare."

    Windows Phone 7 developers were not magically signed up from launch day until January 2011. Microsoft had prototypes that were not ever going to be for sale (like the Samsung Omnia with beta WP7 on it) out to developers months before they launched. They had thousands signed up on day zero before any of the end devices were "seen and used".

    Blackberry's "new product launches" were the same Blackberry phones running a slightly tweaked version of the same old OS...just like the Pre 2. The Playbook isn't even out and is already roundly criticized for having Blackberry-dependent features...and it still dwarfs interest in a WebOS tablet from developers.

    These are not good things.

    You and I will most certainly wait until Feb. 9. My point is that developers are not waiting. This plummeting interest shows that.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's gotta go from zero to somewhere. Obviously, SOME developers are invested in the platform or else Derek would have NO new apps to report on daily.

    But again, note that the number is dwarfed by other tablet platforms that haven't even hit the market yet like the Playbook. This is not an achievement.



    Which is a drop of TWENTY PERCENT in the months LEADING up to the announcement, hence my point in this thread.



    Huh? The sentence reads as follows:

    "Windows Phone 7 and BlackBerry phones posted solid gains on their new product launches. Compared to webOS tablet and MeeGo device no-shows, these two players remain solidly in the game for developer mindshare."

    Windows Phone 7 developers were not magically signed up from launch day until January 2011. Microsoft had prototypes that were not ever going to be for sale (like the Samsung Omnia with beta WP7 on it) out to developers months before they launched. They had thousands signed up on day zero before any of the end devices were "seen and used".

    Blackberry's "new product launches" were the same Blackberry phones running a slightly tweaked version of the same old OS...just like the Pre 2. The Playbook isn't even out and is already roundly criticized for having Blackberry-dependent features...and it still dwarfs interest in a WebOS tablet from developers.

    These are not good things.

    You and I will most certainly wait until Feb. 9. My point is that developers are not waiting. This plummeting interest shows that.


    again of course the numbers are dwarfed right now because wait for it, nothing has even been announced regarding the new tablet by HP. They dont even have a name for it, and we have recently is a spec sheet that is prob out dated. Every other platform has had a review of their upcoming tablet (like for months with the playbook), or specific specs and pics. So to me interest going up 16% to even BB 12% in that time frame is positive growth without nothing physical to show anyone. Again the Playbook has had hands on from all types of reviews for months, so developers and customers alike have a idea of what it will bring.

    the webos phones of course dropped, but again with no new hardware (pre 2 not avail in the states) as stated it holds a strong market share with nothing new. So again your arguments dont make, when it comes to anything positive regarding HP, Webos, Or Palm so I ask myself whats the use in arguing with you.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Don't worry, you're not reading it correctly.
    ok so what does that graph mean when showing for webos:

    09/10 = 0%

    01/10 = 16%

    ??????

    though when I read what they state what android gained:

    Tablet interest spikes across the board: Android Tablet interest jumped 12 points in three months to 74%

    and theirs read:

    09/10 = 62%

    01/10= 74%

    conferming what is said above, to me is says Webos interested increased 16% in 3 months, if not please enlighten me.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    again of course the numbers are dwarfed right now because wait for it, nothing has even been announced regarding the new tablet by HP. They dont even have a name for it, and we have recently is a spec sheet that is prob out dated. Every other platform has had a review of their upcoming tablet (like for months with the playbook), or specific specs and pics. So to me interest going up 16% to even BB 12% in that time frame is positive growth without nothing physical to show anyone. Again the Playbook has had hands on from all types of reviews for months, so developers and customers alike have a idea of what it will bring.
    So developers have to see the physical device before getting excited instead of just using the SDK? Again, if that was the case, how did Microsoft line up so many so quickly with just prototypes that never made it to market?

    Shooting even more holes in this reasoning is the fact that WebOS devices - including a new one JUST FOR DEVELOPERS - are able to be seen and touched every day. Interest in those is plummeting. But the interest in the unseen tablet "went from 0-16%". Apparently, seeing the actual devices is a repellent.

    the webos phones of course dropped, but again with no new hardware (pre 2 not avail in the states) as stated it holds a strong market share with nothing new. So again your arguments dont make, when it comes to anything positive regarding HP, Webos, Or Palm so I ask myself whats the use in arguing with you.
    The Pre 2 has been available in America for direct order since Nov. 18. A few days later, HP put out a $200 developer coupon. As far as "holding a strong market share with nothing new", they shed 10 percent of their user base in just one quarter late last year as proven by the ComScore report that Cobrakon so graciously provided when attempting to establish the opposite.

    There's nothing to argue with. The numbers speak for themselves. Developers are losing interest. Fact. WebOS is shedding great numbers of users and losing marketshare. Fact. While you say "wait for Feb. 9" as far as developer interest (the subject of this thread), developers are not waiting. Fact.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    ok so what does that graph mean when showing for webos:

    09/10 = 0%

    01/10 = 16%

    ??????

    though when I read what they state what android gained:

    Tablet interest spikes across the board: Android Tablet interest jumped 12 points in three months to 74%

    and theirs read:

    09/10 = 62%

    01/10= 74%

    conferming what is said above, to me is says Webos interested increased 16% in 3 months, if not please enlighten me.
    Maybe this will help. It shows how they've been tracking these numbers since January of 2010.

    IDC: Developer interest in Android nearly equals iOS | Betanews

    At no point is interest for any of these platforms ZERO:
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Maybe this will help. It shows how they've been tracking these numbers since January of 2010.

    IDC: Developer interest in Android nearly equals iOS | Betanews

    At no point is interest for any of these platforms ZERO:
    yes it does in regards to the webos tablet (which is the one Im quoting) it shows even on that graph (which is the same one on the first link) that webos tablet interest didnt start until 09/10 the triangle with dark purple and light purple. THe phones are the solid purple (hard to see since they are mixed together)
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    again as you stated microsoft still had something to show developers. It gave them something physical to be interested in.
    HP hasn't had prototypes this whole time? What was the HP guy holding blacked out in those pictures some months ago? What hardware was Rahul Sood referring to when he said "Everyone will want in once the presentation of the hardware is in front of them"?

    It gave customers something to be interested in.
    Irrelevant to this discussion of developers.

    Yes you need something to invest your time and resources in. Why the hell would anyone just say ok I'll develop for it even though I dont know what Im developing for? Bottom line is interest raised 16% in 3 months and thats a fact period.
    See my post before this. It's not a fact. Period.

    The pre 2 (even through HP) has not been pitted with a US carrier so no it is not available in the US.
    And the Playbook is? The Windows Phone 7 devices were when they were signing up thousands to their early access program?

    Come on, man. It doesn't line up at all.

    So im done talking to you your opinions are your own and only believe that they are correct even when you give supporting data, you find basic negative to it. Webos in a year could take off, and you'd still prob find the negative to it. Palm must have stole your lunch money, locked you in the basement and yelled at you, because you have nothing but hate for them lol. I seen your post when you first got the pre, and you had nothing but complaints then so I know this is where you stand. So I'll let you be (you and these sheep you put their 2 cents in) in these cross platform only post right, and wish you luck and deliveriance
    Personal attacks, eh? I will be happy to alert the mods. You have a good day, too.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    HP hasn't had prototypes this whole time? What was the HP guy holding blacked out in those pictures some months ago? What hardware was Rahul Sood referring to when he said "Everyone will want in once the presentation of the hardware is in front of them"?



    Irrelevant to this discussion of developers.



    See my post before this. It's not a fact. Period.



    And the Playbook is? The Windows Phone 7 devices were when they were signing up thousands to their early access program?

    Come on, man. It doesn't line up at all.



    Personal attacks, eh? I will be happy to alert the mods. You have a good day, too.

    again it is a fact if want to believe that or not sorry your wrong again. The playbook has been handled and in fact pretty much the same time frame 09/10 to 01/11 and they only gained 12% to webos 16% and webos has had no product for anyone to review. Im not sure what you mean by the WP7 phones? You can go ahead and alert the authoritys lol im sorry that hurt your feelings though I didnt really think that was a personal attack but if thats how you see it, since another discussion you cant win is bothering you feel free. Fact is Webos has gained ground tablet by 16%, and the phones have remaind stable for over a year with no new devices sold directly at carriers. If your anti Webos thats fine, but your facts that you gave only invalidated your points sorry.
  20. #40  
    but the slide you show me show only webos phones from 01/10 to 01/11 and the tablet from 09/10 to 01/11 (looking at it the full purple triangles are labeled phones, and the tablet half light purple and half dark purple) So it does show the date your specifing, but if you look at the legen underneth the grid webos is split into two catagorys (webos phones, and webos tablet). Im not sure nobody has handled anything new at HP that they will be reveiling next week, what Im saying is up to this point there has only been leaks, nothing officially announced like the playbook has months ago, and like all the android tablets. My point is we dont know unless you or anyone has inside info with HP. Though as stated it shows some interested sparked for the tablet starting 09/10 so maybe they showed someone something who knows. Once again it was a pleasure.
    Last edited by bevcraw; 02/02/2011 at 03:47 PM. Reason: removed deleted quote
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