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  1. #61  
    No. Apple users are different. They love the company. The identifiy themselfs with the company. So it is always a pleasure to wait 5 or 6 hours to buy a new device.

    HP was always for the mob. They build, they sell, nobody cares. If somebody says "I am a mac" and you answere "I am a pc", you are the nerd. But if you answere "I am a HP" you are a weido to both of them

    But maybe HP will raise with webOS to a new Apple_like_franchise, but i would bet on it.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    There's plenty of ways for them to shoot themselves in the foot, but you're essentially advocating they put their lips around an Uzi, pull the trigger, and just start chowing down on bullets.

    HP's margins are already pretty thin, and their bread and butter are laptops and desktops in the $400-800 range. So they're going to stick resistive (capacitive?...who knows) touchscreens on EVERY PC with a WebOS layer on top, and thereby add a price premium that will kill them (Keep in mind the $800 HP Slate has the internals of a $300 netbook).

    Now all of these low-to-midrange chipsets will be running Linux and Windows 7 simultaneously, and whenever you switch out of Linux/WebOS, the touchscreen essentially becomes useless providing a schizophrenic experience.

    And this would be the centerpiece of their HP stores?
    yeah I agree I dont think they should go overboard with Webos at all. To me adding webos, phones, notbooks, and tablets along side the rest of their PCs, printers etc running WP7 will give them a nice variety to their portfolio. Remember there are still people out there, even after Webos is rebirthed that like HP pavillion running WP7 on it, so lets not hender what works for HP.
  3. #63  
    On the other hand, when there was speculation about Mac and iOS shifting closer together and eventually merging, and when Engadget hinted at touch panel iMacs, there was a great cry of "awesome!!!" throughout the internets. Go use a TouchSmart PC. Half-baked software, sure, but a great experience nonetheless. Maybe I'm just hoping for this because I like touch-enabled desktops so much. But like I said, as soon as it's a touch-enabled iMac we're talking about, the masses swoon immediately, so I wouldn't throw the concept out immediately.

    HP's margins are so thin because right now, nothing sets them apart from any other PC manufacturer (a problem that will soon enough wear down android manufacturers as well). Differentiating themselves with webOS will allow them to ask more, even if the notion seems laughable to you now.
  4. #64  
    Isn't there already a palm store?

    Just build from there

    http://www.google.com/m/place?client...ed=0CBIQnQIwAQ

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  5. DDT1345's Avatar
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       #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    Isn't there already a palm store?

    Just build from there

    Palm Inc - Business details

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Sketch,

    A few posts back someone enlightened us to there already being "HP Experience Stores", so they can build on those...if they want to.

    Kevin
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    HP's consumer-facing side will not only "double down" on webOS, but that they will go all-in.

    Buy a HP pavilion PC, and it'll ship with a touchscreen and boot into webOS by default.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    There's plenty of ways for them to shoot themselves in the foot, but you're essentially advocating they put their lips around an Uzi, pull the trigger, and just start chowing down on bullets.
    Just wanted to bring this up again because it popped into my head Can you show some of your work, leading industry analyst mikah912? I must know from a reliable source (like you) just how bad those eejits over at HP screwed up. What sick brain could have *imagined* webOS on PCs, eh? How fast is it going to ruin them, you think?

    OK, so webOS on PCs may not actually be a bootable thing and rather integrated with Windows. Does that turn the Uzi into candy? Or just into, say, a Mauser?
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    There's plenty of ways for them to shoot themselves in the foot, but you're essentially advocating they put their lips around an Uzi, pull the trigger, and just start chowing down on bullets.

    HP's margins are already pretty thin, and their bread and butter are laptops and desktops in the $400-800 range. So they're going to stick resistive (capacitive?...who knows) touchscreens on EVERY PC with a WebOS layer on top, and thereby add a price premium that will kill them (Keep in mind the $800 HP Slate has the internals of a $300 netbook).

    Now all of these low-to-midrange chipsets will be running Linux and Windows 7 simultaneously, and whenever you switch out of Linux/WebOS, the touchscreen essentially becomes useless providing a schizophrenic experience.

    And this would be the centerpiece of their HP stores?
    Wow. How many straw men can you fit into one post? Mikah is going to find out.

    When were touch screens even mentioned in the approach GodShapedHole proposed? Why can't we envision a desktop/laptop version of webOS with mouse input (as Engadget mentioned HP hinted about)? Alternatively, while we're speculating, why is it so hard to believe that HP could offer touchscreen enabled machines at a lower price point, eliminating the "schizophrenic" user experience you're doom-casting about?

    We haven't been shown any PC running webOS yet. So we have no idea what the UX will be like. Speculation about, say, the TouchPad based on alpha stage software is one thing (it's still stupid), but speculating on heretofore-unseen desktop webOS and projecting its shortcomings? Come on.
  8. Olidie's Avatar
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    #68  
    HP doesn't need an HP store to be cool.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  9. #69  
    I think depending on how well Webos reboots itself in the market, should they consider HP stores.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Just wanted to bring this up again because it popped into my head Can you show some of your work, leading industry analyst mikah912? I must know from a reliable source (like you) just how bad those eejits over at HP screwed up. What sick brain could have *imagined* webOS on PCs, eh? How fast is it going to ruin them, you think?

    OK, so webOS on PCs may not actually be a bootable thing and rather integrated with Windows. Does that turn the Uzi into candy? Or just into, say, a Mauser?
    Too bad in your glee you left out the most important parts of the post. Specifically you saying:

    Buy a HP pavilion PC, and it'll ship with a touchscreen and boot into webOS by default. If you find yourself needing that full office suite or photoshop, there'll be a Windows icon in the quicklaunch bar. Tap it, and you're in Windows. 95% of people will probably not need to tap that Windows icon in 95% of cases. And that's how HP becomes cool
    To which I responded:

    HP's margins are already pretty thin, and their bread and butter are laptops and desktops in the $400-800 range. So they're going to stick resistive (capacitive?...who knows) touchscreens on EVERY PC with a WebOS layer on top, and thereby add a price premium that will kill them (Keep in mind the $800 HP Slate has the internals of a $300 netbook).
    I never took issue with WebOS on PCs in the post but rather throwing a touchscreen on every Pavillion notebook (which is most of their laptop line by the looks of HP.com), and driving cheap devices up with an outrageous price premium that adds a resistive touch experience inconsistent with the mobile products. There's also roughly a $400 premium putting a TouchSmart screen on a HP desktop as opposed to an all-in-one with roughly the same screen size and specs.

    It would be an absolute disaster. Kind of like this out-of-context quoting that was easily dismissed.
    Last edited by mikah912; 02/16/2011 at 01:27 PM.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    Wow. How many straw men can you fit into one post? Mikah is going to find out.

    When were touch screens even mentioned in the approach GodShapedHole proposed?
    See my post above.

    Why can't we envision a desktop/laptop version of webOS with mouse input (as Engadget mentioned HP hinted about)? Alternatively, while we're speculating, why is it so hard to believe that HP could offer touchscreen enabled machines at a lower price point, eliminating the "schizophrenic" user experience you're doom-casting about?
    Because it adds a huge price premium to laptops and desktops that nobody is clamoring for, and that even HP can't price cheaply (see: HP Slate, the $800 PC with $300 netbook processor inside). Because their TouchSmart PCs are underwhelming enough as is. Because using a vertically-oriented touch surface gets tiring to the arm quickly.

    Now as for running WebOS apps inside a browser...sure. It's all HTML5 and CSS, right? That's not a particularly compelling offering for end users yet, but that's not what he suggested.

    We haven't been shown any PC running webOS yet. So we have no idea what the UX will be like. Speculation about, say, the TouchPad based on alpha stage software is one thing (it's still stupid), but speculating on heretofore-unseen desktop webOS and projecting its shortcomings? Come on.
    He speculated. I commented.
  12. #72  
    ^ Your post above cleared up the touchscreen mention, which I took to be coming from nowhere.
  13. #73  
    1. You're acting as if touch introduced an insurmountible price premium. It doesn't. If you just check Amazon, you'll see that a 23" touch-enabled standalone monitor goes for between 230-300 Euros. And those prices are end-user prices, obviously including touch premiums of pure profit for the manufacturer and vendor. Same-sized non-touch monitors go for between 150-200 Euros.
    The difference isn't as huge as you make it out to be even in the end-user market, and obviously gets smaller when you buy in bulk from the manufacturer. HP buys in bulk from the manufacturer.

    If you ask me, the price of the Slate 500 is a result of low production numbers and high development costs combined with high demand and low supply for Windows tablets of its kind.

    2) google "iMac touch" to see how much people are looking forward to this concept - as long as it's Apple that's building it. (remember kids: even if it already exists, look for Apple to invent it because it can't be cool before they do.) Check Apple fan forums for the same search term. The demand is definitely there. Or do you think it's exclusively Apple acolytes that want touch PCs?

    3) You call the TouchSmart line "underwhelming". Have you ever used one? What did you consider underwhelming about it? The only thing I didn't much like was the TouchSmart UI in and of itself. Since that seems to be replaced by webOS soon, this point becomes moot.

    4) Look at the new line of TouchSmart PCs. They swivel, so you can set your screen to be as vertical, or horizontal, as you want. Ergonomics should not be a problem. WebOS on PCs won't usually be used for content creation though, so your nightmare scenario of having to switch from your hardware keyboard to the screen just to tap an input field will never happen.
    What'll happen much more often is that the screen is at 45 and gets used to manipulate the Music playlist, video playlist, internet, and games. For the 5% of the time I use my home machine for anything else, I'll just go back to vanilla Win7.

    I don't know where you found your strawman about HP using resistive screens for these PCs, but you can keep it. Will EVERY SINGLE PC HP SELLS have this? Maybe not. But a lot of them will if you ask me, simply because that is HPs #1 chance to make webOS huge. If they sold it as a premium option, few people would opt for it. If people got it for "free" with the HP computer they want, they'll see how awesome webOS is and get to like it while developers watch webOS marketshare soar.
    Last edited by GodShapedHole; 02/17/2011 at 07:25 PM.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    1. You're acting as if touch introduced an insurmountible price premium. It doesn't. If you just check Amazon, you'll see that a 23" touch-enabled standalone monitor goes for between 230-300 Euros. And those prices are end-user prices, obviously including touch premiums of pure profit for the manufacturer and vendor. Same-sized non-touch monitors go for between 150-200 Euros.
    The difference isn't as huge as you make it out to be even in the end-user market, and obviously gets smaller when you buy in bulk from the manufacturer. HP buys in bulk from the manufacturer.

    If you ask me, the price of the Slate 500 is a result of low production numbers and high development costs combined with high demand and low supply for Windows tablets of its kind.

    2) google "iMac touch" to see how much people are looking forward to this concept - as long as it's Apple that's building it. (remember kids: even if it already exists, look for Apple to invent it because it can't be cool before they do.) Check Apple fan forums for the same search term. The demand is definitely there. Or do you think it's exclusively Apple acolytes that want touch PCs?

    3) You call the TouchSmart line "underwhelming". Have you ever used one? What did you consider underwhelming about it? The only thing I didn't much like was the TouchSmart UI in and of itself. Since that seems to be replaced by webOS soon, this point becomes moot.

    4) Look at the new line of TouchSmart PCs. They swivel, so you can set your screen to be as vertical, or horizontal, as you want. Ergonomics should not be a problem. WebOS on PCs won't usually be used for content creation though, so your nightmare scenario of having to switch from your hardware keyboard to the screen just to tap an input field will never happen.
    What'll happen much more often is that the screen is at 45 and gets used to manipulate the Music playlist, video playlist, internet, and games. For the 5% of the time I use my home machine for anything else, I'll just go back to vanilla Win7.

    I don't know where you found your strawman about HP using resistive screens for these PCs, but you can keep it. Will EVERY SINGLE PC HP SELLS have this? Maybe not. But a lot of them will if you ask me, simply because that is HPs #1 chance to make webOS huge. If they sold it as a premium option, few people would opt for it. If people got it for "free" with the HP computer they want, they'll see how awesome webOS is and get to like it while developers watch webOS marketshare soar.
    I wonder why they even bother with tablet hardware, then. According to your logic, their number one priority should've been slapping this on their PCs from the jump so they could tell developers there are "millions" of new WebOS users per quarter before Apple could even ship an iPad 2. This would help WebOS follow in the great tradition of super successful instant-on OSes HP has used like MI Linux, Splashtop, and (ironically enough) iOS from Voodoo. An HP store full of these machines could usher in a whole new world, because everybody loves stopping off to look at browser based apps on vanilla Windows PCs whenever they get a free minute during mall shopping, yeah?

    But now...you can touch the screens. Game changer. I'm sure AppBookShop and BrightHouse Labs are chomping at the bit for this kinda scenario.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    I think depending on how well Webos reboots itself in the market, should they consider HP stores.
    This may take a while, we all know how long WebOS takes to reboot.




    *Pun definitely intended.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by manordwall View Post
    This may take a while, we all know how long WebOS takes to reboot.




    *Pun definitely intended.
    Nice!

    Sent from my eVo
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    Nice!

    Sent from my eVo
    I had to go for it, How often does that sort of opportunity come about?
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I wonder why they even bother with tablet hardware, then. According to your logic, their number one priority should've been slapping this on their PCs from the jump so they could tell developers there are "millions" of new WebOS users per quarter before Apple could even ship an iPad 2. This would help WebOS follow in the great tradition of super successful instant-on OSes HP has used like MI Linux, Splashtop, and (ironically enough) iOS from Voodoo. An HP store full of these machines could usher in a whole new world, because everybody loves stopping off to look at browser based apps on vanilla Windows PCs whenever they get a free minute during mall shopping, yeah?

    But now...you can touch the screens. Game changer. I'm sure AppBookShop and BrightHouse Labs are chomping at the bit for this kinda scenario.
    If Apple did it, it would be more exciting, right? Again, google iMac Touch and see how people are salivating.

    But the fact is that yes, bias exists. Book apps available on Apple? AWESOME, people can read on their iphones! Revolutionary.
    Book apps available on HP? BORING, nobody wants to read anyway. Trash.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    but thats why HP also helps the company be profitable they offer all lines of affordable, to high end. Apple really is just high end products, and I dont see nothing wrong with offering budget type products. I for one have a high end Pavillion and compared to my old macbook pro the quality, specs and speed are more then comparable.
    Except the Macbook didn't come loaded with crapware or covered in stupid stickers.
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