View Poll Results: Is their room for Palm now?

Voters
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  • Deffo! Just like the iPhone killer before us!

    18 16.67%
  • Palm have to hit a few nails but probably can do it

    53 49.07%
  • They have a lot of variables to get right...I'm not convinced

    30 27.78%
  • Not an icy snow ball of cream's in hells chance!

    7 6.48%
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  1.    #1  
    Hey guys, I'm back...haven't posted for a while, been super busy with postgraduate work! Anywho, I've been following palm avidly in my absence and have come to the conclusion that I think it's the perfect time for a super release!

    I truly believe that their is room in the market for palm, with enough people wanting an iPhone alternative (especially with the iPhone 4 shenanigans) proven by the massive android sales, and with blackberry offering little as an alternative, consumer frustration at the lack of competition and the fragmentation of android draws me to believe palm has the answer. With the best solution for enterprise and consumers they only have to nail two things;

    1. Make the thing out of more than cut off Perspex ****e from the pre1! Make the new palm device from sexy looking glass and steel like blackberry torch or iPhone 4!

    2. Launch it soon! If palm do such a half assed launch as they did with the pre! They have no hope

    (3. Goes without saying but...dual core and gpu that UI please! - more of a wish than a need!)

    A lot of people comment that they need developers, but developers will come once people buy the devices, and palm couldn't make it easier to develop/port to webOS, with PDK goodness and exact screen resolution matches between iOS and webOS after couple of hours devs have accessed another Market, but they won't without viable revenue, which will come with sales, which is driven by a really compelling device!

    We know the UI is amazing, and if palm can deliver on touchstone hottness and other promises leaked this week, it may be the Dawn for palm, and the dusk for blackberry! This year I would love to see iOS, Android and Palm at the top!

    I know I haven't mentioned WP7 yet, but I truly believe that it offers little in the was of consolidating consumer frustration with competitors, whereas webOS obviously does!
  2. #2  
    agreed.
  3. #3  
    They need an absolute reboot in every way to get customer perception back. If they don't deliver on the 9th, the Atrix, Xoom, iPhone and iPad will be there to take the last of the faithful.
  4. #4  
    Is there room for Palm? I believe there is a tiny bit of room between Nokia and oblivion.
  5. #5  
    in before lock!
  6. #6  
    I'd answer it this way: there'd be no chance whatsoever of Palm competing in this space. Of course, it's not Palm, but rather HP, that we're talking about, and I give them a definite chance over the long term. And don't think this isn't going to be a long slog--things won't be decided over the next six months, but probably more likely over the next six years.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Is there room for Palm? I believe there is a tiny bit of room between Nokia and oblivion.
    In the mobile space, redemption and oblivion ride a fine line. Just look at Motorola. Rode the RAZR to the brink, then the DROID line brought them back. All it takes is one device..
  8. #8  
    I think that no matter how hard it is for webOS to make it to the top three, it will get there.

    I can almost be completely sure of this because HP is behind this, and they are a big technology company that will invest a lot of money to stay relevant. I am even more assured by the fact that webOS is, in a way, HP's only hope to make it big into the mobile/inter-connected devices business. Just look at their options: webOS, WP7, and Android (or starting from scratch a new OS which is not an option this late in the game). Two of those options involve having to depend on a different company. With webOS they can do whatever they want to the OS and implement it into their hardware for better user experience.

    webOS is HP's way to differentiate themselves from all the Android devices flooding the market.
  9. rkguy's Avatar
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    #9  
    yah but there is always an Android reference factor like the Nexus 1 and S. They are building almost down to the metal on those guys
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titano View Post
    I think that no matter how hard it is for webOS to make it to the top three, it will get there.

    I can almost be completely sure of this because HP is behind this, and they are a big technology company that will invest a lot of money to stay relevant. I am even more assured by the fact that webOS is, in a way, HP's only hope to make it big into the mobile/inter-connected devices business. Just look at their options: webOS, WP7, and Android (or starting from scratch a new OS which is not an option this late in the game). Two of those options involve having to depend on a different company. With webOS they can do whatever they want to the OS and implement it into their hardware for better user experience.

    webOS is HP's way to differentiate themselves from all the Android devices flooding the market.
    Although true, many blogs believe that HP won't waste all their time forcing the success of webOS if unsuccessful they are more than likely going to drop it for a partnership, such as android or WP7 to try and stay relevant!
  11. #11  
    It's a quickly expanding market with high turnover. Of course there is room.

    BTW - the same question was asked when the G1 with Android appeared. ;-)
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  12. cgk
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    It's a quickly expanding market with high turnover. Of course there is room.

    BTW - the same question was asked when the G1 with Android appeared. ;-)

    Doesn't mean that every new entry will find success - Microsoft has spend in the region of $500 million in promotional activities and it seems the result of that is 400,000 end-users (so far). Moreover, the more recently released figures on OEMs show that an awful lot of bottom feeders are entering the market via Android. So sure you can push out a new range of devices but it's going to increasingly hard to convince people to buy a device for $200 on contract when an android device can be purchased for $70, unlocked with no contract. The way the market is currently structured it's Android's to lose (in the long-term) simply because nobody else is able to (or wants to) cover so many angles.
  13. mateo2's Avatar
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    #13  
    There are no $70 phones off contract and there aren't going to be for a long long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Doesn't mean that every new entry will find success - Microsoft has spend in the region of $500 million in promotional activities and it seems the result of that is 400,000 end-users (so far). Moreover, the more recently released figures on OEMs show that an awful lot of bottom feeders are entering the market via Android. So sure you can push out a new range of devices but it's going to increasingly hard to convince people to buy a device for $200 on contract when an android device can be purchased for $70, unlocked with no contract. The way the market is currently structured it's Android's to lose (in the long-term) simply because nobody else is able to (or wants to) cover so many angles.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums
  14. ToddK's Avatar
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    #14  
    nope.
    no hope at all.
    it's over, nothing to see here.
    forget Feb 9th. close down PreCentral.

    i read that here, it must be true. ;-)
  15. #15  
    There is always room for more competition


    My Themes:CLICK HERE
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by phil.hsr View Post
    I truly believe that their is room in the market for palm, with enough people wanting an iPhone alternative (especially with the iPhone 4 shenanigans) proven by the massive android sales, and with blackberry offering little as an alternative, consumer frustration at the lack of competition and the fragmentation of android draws me to believe palm has the answer. With the best solution for enterprise and consumers they only have to nail two things;
    Not to be nitpicky, but by default there's no open space available for a new device in an established, even if growing, market. In order to succeed, something needs to be displaced. The release of the Pre (once again) showed that mythical markets like "the fat middle" simply aren't there for the easy picking. Palm wasn't trying to do anything new with webOS and the Pre, they were simply trying to improve their position in a market they helped invent, but was leaving them behind. Now we have webOS 2.0 and the next batch of HP devices - in two already-established markets. HP is going to have to displace someone else if they're going to grow their share of these markets beyond something south of 2%. On a bright note, HP has an oppotunity to succeed with the downward spiral of RIM and the tentative beachhead established by WP7. But it's a crowded market with a lot of moving parts and rapidly evolving technologies so it won't be a cake walk as Palm learned last year.
  17. #17  
    The smart phone and mobile device market is hardly established. There will probably be an added 40-50 million smart phone users switching from feature phones this year. Smart phone penetration is only about 35% of the current market, and even the market itself is expanding. I would be willing to wager smart phones will eventually hit at least 70% market share in the next 3 years.

    If HP releases a great webOS device by midyear, and the market it really well, I would not be surprised if they hit 10% market share by the end of 2011. Windows Phone 7 has proven to be a failure so far, and Windows Mobile users are going to be jumping ship at a high rate, just like Blackberry users. Add the new users signing up and existing users that are upgrade eligible or out of contract, and there's a huge opportunity.

    webOS's success hinges on a strong presence in the mobile phone market. I just hope HP has realized a tablet on its own will fail.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    The smart phone and mobile device market is hardly established. There will probably be an added 40-50 million smart phone users switching from feature phones this year. Smart phone penetration is only about 35% of the current market, and even the market itself is expanding. I would be willing to wager smart phones will eventually hit at least 70% market share in the next 3 years.

    If HP releases a great webOS device by midyear, and the market it really well, I would not be surprised if they hit 10% market share by the end of 2011. Windows Phone 7 has proven to be a failure so far, and Windows Mobile users are going to be jumping ship at a high rate, just like Blackberry users. Add the new users signing up and existing users that are upgrade eligible or out of contract, and there's a huge opportunity.

    webOS's success hinges on a strong presence in the mobile phone market. I just hope HP has realized a tablet on its own will fail.
    I think you're confusing "established" with "saturated." The smartphone market is well-established, but it is far from saturated. However, once a market is well-established, the turmoil associated with a wholly new market (think iPad) has settled out and now the fight becomes one of convincing the holdout consumers to enter into the market (think HDTV) or switch brands (think Pepsi vs Coke). Major upheavals in an established market might take place through activities like business takeovers, business failures, or completely new (disruptive) technologies that blow out pricing, production, or performance (think iPhone in 2007).

    So, changes can take place in an established market, but momentum usually controls the day unless something amazing happens. WebOS just really isn't that amazing although it might have been if it had been around in the Spring of 2007.
  19. #19  
    HP needs to do better than this to make it...
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Not to be nitpicky, but by default there's no open space available for a new device in an established, even if growing, market. In order to succeed, something needs to be displaced. The release of the Pre (once again) showed that mythical markets like "the fat middle" simply aren't there for the easy picking. Palm wasn't trying to do anything new with webOS and the Pre, they were simply trying to improve their position in a market they helped invent, but was leaving them behind. Now we have webOS 2.0 and the next batch of HP devices - in two already-established markets. HP is going to have to displace someone else if they're going to grow their share of these markets beyond something south of 2%. On a bright note, HP has an oppotunity to succeed with the downward spiral of RIM and the tentative beachhead established by WP7. But it's a crowded market with a lot of moving parts and rapidly evolving technologies so it won't be a cake walk as Palm learned last year.
    I understand your point, however, smart phones still consist of the minority of overall mobile device Market share, thus, if palm/HP can deliver a device that not only can 'displace' Market share from the big 3, but also compel feature phone users to adopt a smartphone then their is a large Market yet unsaturated. Just because a Market is established and growing, doesn't necessarily mean that their is no new market available.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kep8j3iq-n...ctober2010.png

    as of 2010, smartphone only consist of 30% of hand sets, and yes, in order to capture a larger marketshare, some users will need to be 'displaced' from feature phone, however, the two markets are relatively separate, denoting that their is still PLENTY of users up for grabs, without relying on acquiring users from already established user bases!

    Edit: you try to differentiate saturated and established, but I believe your definition is somewhat skewed also, or else I'm miss-understanding the phrase 'displace'! As to me this seams like you are suggesting that the market is in fact saturated....

    Edit2: also, you mention two already established markets, I presume you mean the tablet space, which I believe is far from established, I would expect the automobile industry to be classed as established, or the coffee industry, but the smartphone industry I think is only just finding it's feet, yes their are a few OS's and OEM's, but non of them have the answer, although all similar their is a reason manufacturers even at the top, are struggling to compel users, these are characteristics I wouldn't associate with an established Market...unless an established Market means the dominance and success of one manufacturer! The entire market could change in six months.. Just look at soft technologies, HTML5 was spurred by the needs of thin clients maintaining a vastly dispersed architecture, by the end of this year, quad-core handsets are going to be manufactured, the evolution of mobile technology had completely altered the reason for development, these thick clients are able to circumvent the reasons for software development, now attention must be placed on the semantics of delivery, opposed to the method of deployment! This industry is shifting far too much to be classed as either established or saturated!

    That's my 2.50 anyway!
    Last edited by phil.hsr; 01/28/2011 at 06:32 PM.
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