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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    One of the reasons why Apple has so many apps in the App Store is that developers can easily know exactly what the app will look like and do. They already have to have three devices - an iPod Touch, iPhone, and iPad. Then, of course, there are last years models and the year before that. See how it can get out of hand?

    Palm made a big mistake when they launched two different screen aspect ratios for webOS. Most games do not automatically resize their user interfaces to whatever screen ratio the device has.
    Once the pads (and presumably a larger screen phone) arrive, there will be no less than four resolutions to program for, which is going to be a persistent problem for any decent graphic games. I don't think Enyo scalability is going to be a panacea for normal apps, either.

    But sooner or later, HP will probably make the decision to let the first generation products (and less popular new ones) swing in the wind and focus on two resolutions: One for phones and one for tablets.
  2. #62  
    Does "nothing too amazing" equal "nothing short of amazing" or is it less amazing?
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think HP will first have to decide if they are going to continue to support hardware keyboards or not. We know the webOS tablet isn't going to have a hardware keyboard but what does that mean for the scaled-up smartphone apps? Most of those were designed for hardware keyboards so that means that a virtual keyboard is going to pop up that the developer never took into consideration.

    What if the input field is at the bottom of the screen? Does the tablet OS automatically push up the content? What if the input field is at the top of the screen? Does it get pushed off the screen? Just get the developer to rewrite the app, right? Well, what if he/she has moved on to another platform? It's hard to make any kind of living as an exclusive webOS developer with practically no phones being sold.
    Apparently is is rather hard to make a living on Android as well with fewer and fewer people purchasing any apps..

    Google 'not happy' with Android Market purchase rates, many changes coming -- Engadget
  4. #64  
    Resolutions should be asfollows 320 by 480 for pixi and pre sized phones ( pixi can stand to have a slighly larger screen. Ive seeen a phone with a keyboard ajd pre sized screen and it was bit longer then an iphone but thinner. It can have a smaller screen too with that res. Then for large phones have 960x640 then for tabs 1080p but with a 4:3 ratio so not sure what that would be. That would cover three types of devices. Low-mid high, and tablets
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think HP will first have to decide if they are going to continue to support hardware keyboards or not. We know the webOS tablet isn't going to have a hardware keyboard but what does that mean for the scaled-up smartphone apps? Most of those were designed for hardware keyboards so that means that a virtual keyboard is going to pop up that the developer never took into consideration.

    What if the input field is at the bottom of the screen? Does the tablet OS automatically push up the content? What if the input field is at the top of the screen? Does it get pushed off the screen? Just get the developer to rewrite the app, right? Well, what if he/she has moved on to another platform? It's hard to make any kind of living as an exclusive webOS developer with practically no phones being sold.
    Unfortunately, they must support hardware keyboards since they plan to stick this on netbooks in the future, so.....uh....yeah.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsetter883 View Post
    Apparently is is rather hard to make a living on Android as well with fewer and fewer people purchasing any apps..

    Google 'not happy' with Android Market purchase rates, many changes coming -- Engadget
    LOL. No offense, but HP would probably pay another $1.2 billion to have the "problems" Android has. Doesn't seem to be affecting developer interest.
  7. #67  
    They need to continue to support them. Virtual keyboards are a preference not something that should be a standard. There is a difference from transfering from a dvd to blu rays or tube tvs to flat screens compared to this. Its not the type of eveolutuon that should replace its previous version but should be offered beside it. I think more phone manufacturers are realizing this as ive noticed more keyboard phones coming out again. Most people prefer them. Only really tech people like virtual keyboards. The general population prefers a combo of both. Even tech people like keyboards more sometimes. (i guess trendy people like vkbs too)
  8. mus
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    #68  
    I find it interesting that the palm blog recommends downloading the free "Super Device Countdown" app as a way to pass time till the announcement. At least they're aware of our expectations for some sort of a "super device".
  9. #69  
    Not too worried about multiple devices with different resolutions. Most devs plan for different resos. All of the apps won't scale but most will, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    That would be unfortunate. One would have to assume that a netbook would never have a virtual keyboard pop-up. That would be ridiculous, would it not?

    So you have some devices that have a hardware keyboard plus a virtual keyboard (smartphone), some with no hardware keyboard but a virtual keyboard (tablet), and some with a hardware keyboard with no virtual keyboard (netbook). And a printer.

    All this to make your app work right on webOS devices.
    The netbook stuff is speculation at the moment. How does having a physical or virtual keyboard affect development of an app? If your app uses the keyboard what's the problem? If it doesn't use the keyboard what's the problem? You can code the app so that it uses the appropriate keyboard. I don't get what you're trying to say.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    The netbook stuff is speculation at the moment. How does having a physical or virtual keyboard affect development of an app? If your app uses the keyboard what's the problem? If it doesn't use the keyboard what's the problem? You can code the app so that it uses the appropriate keyboard. I don't get what you're trying to say.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    The report that the PC front page linked to today with the most recent linked info indicates that netbooks are a go, not speculation. HP has said themselves they are part of the plan down the line. This is something developers must deal with going forward.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The report that the PC front page linked to today with the most recent linked info indicates that netbooks are a go, not speculation. HP has said themselves they are part of the plan down the line. This is something developers must deal with going forward.
    At this point we don't know when the netbook would be released. It may use app or it may not use apps. It may have a different SDK or it may not. Let's see how HP chooses to deal with this. We have no idea at this point.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    At this point we don't know when the netbook would be released. It may use app or it may not use apps. It may have a different SDK or it may not. Let's see how HP chooses to deal with this. We have no idea at this point.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    You think they're designing a WebOS netbook that would not use any apps or splinter off into a different SDK so they're starting from zero for apps? Seems....unlikely.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You think they're designing a WebOS netbook that would not use any apps or splinter off into a different SDK so they're starting from zero for apps? Seems....unlikely.
    Do we know anything concrete at this point? Think about it. What we do know is that Enyo will make deving apps for multi resos easier for devs. What we do is that good devs prepare for multi resos. What we do know is that some apps won't scale but the majority will.

    So why are we hand-wringing over multi devices that have various resos?

    -- Sent from my At&t Palm Pre Plus using Forums
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    Do we know anything concrete at this point? Think about it. What we do know is that Enyo will make deving apps for multi resos easier for devs. What we do is that good devs prepare for multi resos. What we do know is that some apps won't scale but the majority will.

    So why are up in arms over multi devices that have various resos?

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    I'm not up in arms. Simply saying that HP developers will have to account for multiple resolutions and multiple input methods with every app going forward. Not just one or two. Three or more on both counts. You can be a great developer, but it doesn't mean you can make a one size fits all app, and it definitely doesn't mean you'll take your existing WebOS app and retrofit it to do this.

    Part of what's so appealing about iPad are that it runs tens of thousands of apps made for IT. Not compromised, "scalable" apps that would run on an iPod shuffle, iPhone, Macbook Air and an iPad. But ones that are created from the ground up to take advantage of that hardware. WebOS apps have to scale for hardware as puny as the Pixi processor and as powerful as the latest tablet. No matter how great a developer you are, if you stretch ONE app to run on all of these form factors, resolutions, and hardware, it will be optimized for none of them.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I'm not up in arms. Simply saying that HP developers will have to account for multiple resolutions and multiple input methods with every app going forward. Not just one or two. Three or more on both counts. You can be a great developer, but it doesn't mean you can make a one size fits all app, and it definitely doesn't mean you'll take your existing WebOS app and retrofit it to do this.

    Part of what's so appealing about iPad are that it runs tens of thousands of apps made for IT. Not compromised, "scalable" apps that would run on an iPod shuffle, iPhone, Macbook Air and an iPad. But ones that are created from the ground up to take advantage of that hardware. WebOS apps have to scale for hardware as puny as the Pixi processor and as powerful as the latest tablet. No matter how great a developer you are, if you stretch ONE app to run on all of these form factors, resolutions, and hardware, it will be optimized for none of them.
    Is this the first time you've seen this problem? If you say yes then you haven't been paying attention.

    Secondly, your argument presupposes that there aren't people in HP Labs or Palm engineers or HP engineers that haven't figured out what you've figured out about optimization.

    Enyo is a start. That's more of a start than others. We'll see how things run on Feb 9. I don't doubt that you'll see apps developed that run smoothly. If a Pixi device can't support the app, the dev won't optimize for it. We've seen that before in Android land and with the current Pixi.

    Some hardware will be left behind. Again, see Android.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    Is this the first time you've seen this problem? If you say yes then you haven't been paying attention.
    Irrelevant to this discussion.

    Secondly, your argument presupposes that there aren't people in HP Labs or Palm engineers or HP engineers that haven't figured out what you've figured out about optimization.
    I know that they haven't because it's up to a developer who makes the particular app to do this. There's no magical unicorn SDK that takes an existing app and recodes it to be optimized for every possible resolution, input method, and chipset running it. Not for any platform.

    Enyo is a start. That's more of a start than others. We'll see how things run on Feb 9. I don't doubt that you'll see apps developed that run smoothly. If a Pixi device can't support the app, the dev won't optimize for it. We've seen that before in Android land and with the current Pixi.

    Some hardware will be left behind. Again, see Android.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    I think the entire first generation will be left behind, frankly. That's fine. The thing is - as Untidy says - it makes development more difficult on a platform that is already lacking in development momentum. Apple was able to rocket to speed on the iPad development train because 1) it was wildly successful and 2) developers already had success models on the iPhone platform to draw from in making their new "HD" iPad apps. They don't have either of those here.

    I don't think this will turn off every possible developer. But HP doesn't really need to turn off ANY at this point.
  18. #78  
    Just realized HP would be smart to send out webos 2.0 (2.1? 2.2?) update to current phones before the iphone is available on Verizon, in order to create a moment of pause and rethink in those pre owners planning to switch.
  19. Thead's Avatar
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    #79  
    To mikah and/or untidy:

    How do Android developers get past all the problems with physical and virtual keyboards that you are saying will be a problem for HP? (asking as a noob)
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Just realized HP would be smart to send out webos 2.0 (2.1? 2.2?) update to current phones before the iphone is available on Verizon, in order to create a moment of pause and rethink in those pre owners planning to switch.
    Isn't the release ultimately up to the carrier? I thought HP had already released 2.0 and it's just a matter of the carriers releasing it according to their own timeline.
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