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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Significant product/feature overlap, and all running the same "OS". Difference is in the really high-end stuff not sold at Best Buy, and the really low end stuff not sold by integrators.

    And many customers like me buy a high-end network printer for home even if I have to work harder to find someplace to buy it. I have a networked color laser at home that is beefier than most you'd find in huge company offices. It has a 45,000 page monthly duty cycle.

    So did I buy that as a consumer or a business user? That's a trick question.
    I did almost the same with a business caliber HP laser/copier. But i have a need for it so I see that as a business user buy.

    When it came to a camera, i went for a prosumer one which target both consumers and pros.

    A smartphone though? Or a computer really. Does high end necessarily mean the same as a business caliber product? As a consumer, i actually want something faster or higher end than what i NEED for business.

    At home, i'm watching/converting HD movies, homevideos, some games, pics, etc. That requires a faster PC. At work, i only need Office plus specific windows programs made for my profession.

    Consumer focused phones already do what i need for business...mainly organizing things, access to email, contacts, etc. I have no need for PC sized devices running a mobile OS. Like someone else said earlier, no MS Office means no use for a webOS netbook or a tablet.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I don’t understand this tangent at all. I clearly said "smartphone platform" in the post that kicked this off. Printers are not a smartphone platform, are not operated like smartphones, are not sold like smartphones, and the most popular manufacturers in each field have almost nothing to do with their counterparts in the other.
    I think it was your postulation that they'd focus mostly on enterprise, and resulting posts showing how HP has (and must continue) to address both because business users are a subset of all consumers.

    Printers and PCs are examples as responses to that assertion.

    i think the real question of this entire thread is whether a tablet with a keyboard and touchscreen running webOS would be sufficient to replace a netbook. I believe that it wouldn't unless the app catalog provided a comprehensive set of apps for document editing, etc.

    I use open office on my netbook every day, but I don't see it being a good fit for a pad running an ARM processor and a phone OS as it stands today.

    For it to meet all of my needs, it would still need to do everything I currently do with Windows. What I think makes more sense is for HP to use the webOS interface on top of windows to leverage touch screens - as a replacement for TouchSmart and other touchscreen UI layers they have in their portfolio.

    I don't want to run OpenOffice on webOS as much as I want to be able to toss windows, scroll in cardview, and other actions that are optimized for a pad that doesn't have a physical keyboard. To me, that's the distinction - webOS could run a PalmPad (more so as the app catalog grows) and webOS could enhance Windows on a netbook that combines a physical keyboard and a touch screen - meaning no application for any netbook available today.

    Seemless sharing of info between netbook and smartphone could also be enhanced by having some webOS components resident on a Windows netbook.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I think it was your postulation that they'd focus mostly on enterprise, and resulting posts showing how HP has (and must continue) to address both because business users are a subset of all consumers.

    Printers and PCs are examples as responses to that assertion.
    Actually, I said when I see that document I linked to, I feel that there will be an enterprise-heavy focus, but I said almost immediately after that I hope they clean that messaging up, thereby implying that they switch toward a consumer focus.

    I also said that while there are smartphone platforms that cater to both users - just as HP does in their printer or PC markets - no smartphone platform that I can remember after the Blackberry has successfully launched with a business heavy focus. All success has come from the consumer side first. The argument could be made that HP will be the first, but I think the odds get even longer when you factor in a platform that has already failed in the consumer space. I think HP needs to conquer that hill before moving elsewhere. But that is strictly my opinion.

    i think the real question of this entire thread is whether a tablet with a keyboard and touchscreen running webOS would be sufficient to replace a netbook. I believe that it wouldn't unless the app catalog provided a comprehensive set of apps for document editing, etc.

    I use open office on my netbook every day, but I don't see it being a good fit for a pad running an ARM processor and a phone OS as it stands today.

    For it to meet all of my needs, it would still need to do everything I currently do with Windows. What I think makes more sense is for HP to use the webOS interface on top of windows to leverage touch screens - as a replacement for TouchSmart and other touchscreen UI layers they have in their portfolio.
    Agreed, but I'm not sure hitching your wagon as an overlay to the static Wintel train is a good idea when Microsoft is basically going to be making Windows 8 their tablet and desktop big gun against ARM/tablet computing.

    I don't want to run OpenOffice on webOS as much as I want to be able to toss windows, scroll in cardview, and other actions that are optimized for a pad that doesn't have a physical keyboard. To me, that's the distinction - webOS could run a PalmPad (more so as the app catalog grows) and webOS could enhance Windows on a netbook that combines a physical keyboard and a touch screen - meaning no application for any netbook available today.

    Seemless sharing of info between netbook and smartphone could also be enhanced by having some webOS components resident on a Windows netbook.
    Possibly. I think that this approach also seems overly broad and not focused. HP has thrown touch overlays on top of a broad range of devices before. I don't think making the overlay connected to a smartphone running a new OS is necessarily the cure. As a developer, you'd have to account for all of these different resolutions and methods of input. As a consumer, you'd have to buy several pieces of hardware to reap the maximum benefit. These are barriers to entry on both sides of the equation.
  4. #104  
    I agree with all of that completely!
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But in the smartphone world, this isn't the case. They can't be available at more locations than Android/Apple. They definitely can't undercut them on price, and for the foreseeable future, they can't match them on features. So they're going to have to create a compelling consumer message. I haven't seen that at all yet, and their focus thus far with 2.0 has been anything but.
    I think you're talking about the cost of the data plan here (which is the real cost of owning a smartphone)? I recall Bell offering a $5 monthly discount on data plans with new pre activations. HP could try something similar, maybe absorb the $10 4G fee for new webOS phones.

    As for netbooks, I think people who post on forums and blogs a lot (look in the mirror) may also prefer a netbook over a tablet (running the same os).
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    I think you're talking about the cost of the data plan here (which is the real cost of owning a smartphone)? I recall Bell offering a $5 monthly discount on data plans with new pre activations. HP could try something similar, maybe absorb the $10 4G fee for new webOS phones.

    As for netbooks, I think people who post on forums and blogs a lot (look in the mirror) may also prefer a netbook over a tablet (running the same os).
    Well, if Microsoft didn't eat any data or subsidy costs for Windows Mobile phones, I don't expect that HP will. Not that WP7 is setting the world aflame even with the half-off pricing AT&T is currently doing on WP7 handsets....

    The point is, pricing way underneath "competitive" isn't the answer. People pay a premium for the iPhone or the Evo 4G. HP has been trying to pay people to take WebOS hardware for months.

    As for netbooks, oh yes I'd prefer a fast, energy-efficient one to a tablet. But then, I'd also prefer a full desktop OS on that trackpad-equipped hardware to a touch-oriented one. I mean, I think the Atrix 4G is cool, but it runs a desktop version (with tabs) of Firefox 3.6. I guess HP could embed some desktop-quality apps on WebOS, but they are still tuning the performance of native barebones mobile apps like the Photos app. They'd be running before they learned to walk. It'd be amazing of it happened, but I wouldn't count it as likely.
  7. #107  
    I don't see HP abandoning either the consumer or the business market. Most likely, I see HP targeting an ultimate melee with Android and iOS, but first looking to consolidate the rest of the space. Taking out RIM seems to be the most logical first move by HP. HP can come into a business and offer top to bottom IT solutions: servers, desktops, laptops, netbooks, tablets and smartphones with the services to support them. Is there really anybody else that can offer an equivalent slate of solutions and have the scale to support them? Plus, RIM is already the weakest of the major competitors to HP. Focusing on taking them out will require a distinct business approach.

    Similarly, I think there is a niche for a webOS netbook/notebook type device. I think Bradley said it best (I paraphrase here), "tablets are great for content consumption, but computes are [read notebooks/netbooks] are better for content creation". I might view a presentation on a tablet, I would HATE trying to do any significant editing of a presentation on a tablet. You put out something sleek, ultra-lightweight, instant on with email, web and document editing done well, I think that's something a lot of professionals might be interested in buying. I could certainly see businesses being interested in outfitting sales people with such a device.

    Gargoyle
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by gargoylejps View Post
    I think Bradley said it best (I paraphrase here), "tablets are great for content consumption, but computes are [read notebooks/netbooks] are better for content creation".
    I hope Bradley repeating that myth is him speaking off the cuff rather than being HP's stance on tablets. It kind of completely disregards all the incredible things people have done with their iPads over the past year.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I hope Bradley repeating that myth is him speaking off the cuff rather than being HP's stance on tablets. It kind of completely disregards all the incredible things people have done with their iPads over the past year.
    similar to when jobs said, if it has a stylus it failed??
  10. #110  
    Isn't that true, though?
  11. #111  
    I don't want!
    Down with the BourgeoisOS oppressors, webOS users unite!
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    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Well, if Microsoft didn't eat any data or subsidy costs for Windows Mobile phones, I don't expect that HP will. Not that WP7 is setting the world aflame even with the half-off pricing AT&T is currently doing on WP7 handsets....

    The point is, pricing way underneath "competitive" isn't the answer. People pay a premium for the iPhone or the Evo 4G. HP has been trying to pay people to take WebOS hardware for months.
    Not saying HP will do a subsidy, just saying they can. People pay a premium for the high end devices because they have to, not because they want to. If HP offers a premium device at a more affordable monthly payment, that is a way of undercutting the competition. Free phones is a good start but it's the additional monthly payment that's keeping the feature phone users from going to smartphones.
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    #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I hope Bradley repeating that myth is him speaking off the cuff rather than being HP's stance on tablets. It kind of completely disregards all the incredible things people have done with their iPads over the past year.
    That quote doesn't say tablets can't be good at creating content. It just says computers are better.
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    #114  
    someone else (garretq) just posted in another thread a current lenovo tablet that you dock into the keyboard . when you attached to the keyboard, it has windows. imagine a very good webos tablet, that when you connect it to the keyboard, you have a top of the line laptop with blue ray, dedicated graphics et al.
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    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by shloime View Post
    someone else (garretq) just posted in another thread a current lenovo tablet that you dock into the keyboard . when you attached to the keyboard, it has windows. imagine a very good webos tablet, that when you connect it to the keyboard, you have a top of the line laptop with blue ray, dedicated graphics et al.
    You mean this Lenovo LePad tablet and IdeaPad U1 Hybrid return with Android 2.2 in tow -- Engadget

    For the price, why not just get a separate tablet and netbook. Then you would have two devices instead of just one.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I hope Bradley repeating that myth is him speaking off the cuff rather than being HP's stance on tablets. It kind of completely disregards all the incredible things people have done with their iPads over the past year.
    Except its not a myth..
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    #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    You mean this Lenovo LePad tablet and IdeaPad U1 Hybrid return with Android 2.2 in tow -- Engadget

    For the price, why not just get a separate tablet and netbook. Then you would have two devices instead of just one.
    thats the whole point : one unique device , a top of the line laptop(not netbook) that is also a tablet. no more desktops, laptops,netbooks or anything in between
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    Not saying HP will do a subsidy, just saying they can. People pay a premium for the high end devices because they have to, not because they want to. If HP offers a premium device at a more affordable monthly payment, that is a way of undercutting the competition. Free phones is a good start but it's the additional monthly payment that's keeping the feature phone users from going to smartphones.
    Gotta disagree. I think it is more along the lines of companies charge a premium for high end devices because they can. As soon as demand drops, the price drops. Especially in the US cellphone market. HP is welcome to sell these devices cheaply to carriers. Carriers will still charge as much as they can get for them in hopes of recouping their investment in the inventory.

    Also, I don't believe that feature phone users are ready to jump to smartphones but are put off by a $20-40/month premium. Again, the iPhone has converted millions of feature phone users into smartphone users, but in the US, it's been at the cost of one of the most expensive data plans around. Similarly, the monthly charge for owning one or more Droids is comparatively expensive, yet Verizon has been selling several million. I believe the vast majority of people still using feature phones in 2011 are doing so because they don't want or need a smartphone. And if they somehow miraculously did, they wouldn't let an HP data plan subsidy sway them any more than people would make Sprint the first place carrier because they have the cheapest plans.

    Sprint's fortunes turned around when they introduced a high end handset that actually had a monthly premium, not a monthly subsidy/price cut. The market will respond to quality, but I don't think low pricing is going to cut it anymore. Everyone is racing to the bottom.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Except its not a myth..
    Come on, man....have you heard that Gorillaz album that was created on iPads? Sure, they gave it away for free, but.....
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Except its not a myth..
    People are making music, writing novels, and painting with the iPad. As soon as the iPad gets a camera, we'll probably see people shoot and chop films too (genuine visionary filmmakers are already doing that with phones).

    The whole "tablets are for consumption" thing just reminds me of core gamers who insist you need buttons and a dpad to play video games.

    You don't. Just like you don't need a physical keyboard and a desktop OS to make cool stuff and I think HP sells their tablet short if they really believe that.

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