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  1. spare's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I tend to agree.

    I understand that expanding platforms to all types of mobile devices is a generally good idea.
    But I don't think you can just take any platform, put it on a multitude of devices, and expect success.

    Customers have to want what you're pedaling and devs have to want to develop for what you're pedaling. Without devs customers will not want.

    HP seems to be forgetting about the devs part thus far.
    No, you go for the customer first and the devs will come. HP is working on both but they should focus on getting customers more.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    A netbook while running windows needs a keyboard and pointer. A webOS netbook would be little different than a webOS tablet with a keyboard.
    Then it's not a netbook; it is a pad with a permanently attached keyboard. That's a different animal. Still a bad idea, IMO. They are trying to establish a tablet platform. Having radically different formfactors and input methods leads to consumer and developer confusion. I think they should pick one and go with it. Trying to build a separate formfactor to fulfill every possible geek fantasy is a recipe for disaster.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    No, you go for the customer first and the devs will come. HP is working on both but they should focus on getting customers more.
    They need to focus on devs first.

    Look, even at it's peak customers [the beginning], the WebOS catalog was just not growing comparative to any other app lineup.
    WM7 has been able to trump WebOS in apps in just it's first month. [Took WebOS 18 months to get to that point]

    Customers are essential but, in this situation, devs need to be the focus.
  4. spare's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Then it's not a netbook; it is a pad with a permanently attached keyboard. That's a different animal. Still a bad idea, IMO. They are trying to establish a tablet platform. Having radically different formfactors and input methods leads to consumer and developer confusion. I think they should pick one and go with it. Trying to build a separate formfactor to fulfill every possible geek fantasy is a recipe for disaster.
    Worked for Android.

    And netbooks are form factors embraced by general consumers.
  5. spare's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    They need to focus on devs first.

    Look, even at it's peak customers [the beginning], the WebOS catalog was just not growing comparative to any other app lineup.
    WM7 has been able to trump WebOS in apps in just it's first month. [Took WebOS 18 months to get to that point]

    Customers are essential but, in this situation, devs need to be the focus.
    I haven't followed the sales number on wp7 lately. Have the devs brought in the customers yet?

    Wouldn't you say it was the large amount of customers that brought in the devs for iOS and Android?
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    Worked for Android.
    Three comments:

    1) Android is a completely different platform than any other out there. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

    2) Android didn't start out that way either. They built up dev interest first.

    3) That is not even accurate. It's only in the past few months that Android has expanded outside of just phones.



    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    I haven't followed the sales number on wp7 lately. Have the devs brought in the customers yet?

    Wouldn't you say it was the large amount of customers that brought in the devs for iOS and Android?
    You have to build the foundation before you start talking about the second floor.
  7. #27  
    i'm almost 100% certain that a WebOS netbook, would amount to a tablet with a built in keyboard. It would be a touchscreen, but provide the option for mouse input ala the emulator. I wouldn't expect a whole lot of rewriting...

    the key to making this successful would be having an abundance of productivity and web apps at launch. I hope HP announces some partnerships in Feb.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    They need to focus on devs first.

    Look, even at it's peak customers [the beginning], the WebOS catalog was just not growing comparative to any other app lineup.
    WM7 has been able to trump WebOS in apps in just it's first month. [Took WebOS 18 months to get to that point]

    Customers are essential but, in this situation, devs need to be the focus.
    Lets not forget that the ... sdk wasnt released until mid/late July, by than it didnt matter anymore.. devs lost interest before it started, and palm/sprint both did a horrible job getting devices in consumers hands as well
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    Worked for Android.

    And netbooks are form factors embraced by general consumers.
    Most Android devices aren't very successful. It doesn't matter because Google only needs a few headliners to keep those ad dollars rolling. HP has to be a lot more focused and disciplined. They are producing the hardware, not licensing the software. Huge difference!

    I don't believe the general public ever embraced the netbook formfactor. They embraced the idea of a $300 notebook. The first round of netbooks sporting Linux died a bad death. It took MS putting XP on them to save netbooks. Even then, as soon as something better, iPad, was introduced, the bell started tolling for netbooks. Now, HP's big idea is to put a phone OS less popular than Linux on a dying formfactor. Brilliant!
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Most Android devices aren't very successful. It doesn't matter because Google only needs a few headliners to keep those ad dollars rolling. HP has to be a lot more focused and disciplined. They are producing the hardware, not licensing the software. Huge difference!

    I don't believe the general public ever embraced the netbook formfactor. They embraced the idea of a $300 notebook. The first round of netbooks sporting Linux died a bad death. It took MS putting XP on them to save netbooks. Even then, as soon as something better, iPad, was introduced, the bell started tolling for netbooks. Now, HP's big idea is to put a phone OS less popular than Linux on a dying formfactor. Brilliant!

    netbooks are NOT dying ... LOL... just bc a few techies or yuppies have one , doesnt mean the avg joe wants an iPad over a netbook
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    Lets not forget that the ... sdk wasnt released until mid/late July, by than it didnt matter anymore.. devs lost interest before it started,
    Whether or not that caused dev interest be as low as it was or not, you're just proving my point.


    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    and palm/sprint both did a horrible job getting devices in consumers hands as well
    Not trying to go off-topic here but how was the release of the Evo? Much more "horrible" than the Pre as far as "getting devices in consumers hands".
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Whether or not that caused dev interest be as low as it was or not, you're just proving my point.




    Not trying to go off-topic here but how was the release of the Evo? Much more "horrible" than the Pre as far as "getting devices in consumers hands".
    oh .. i didnt say i disagree, just not a good example of which needs to come first... i think they need to hit the ground running hard at both..


    the Evo didnt start off as well as sprint liked... but eventually kicked off due to more agressive advertising.. and android apps where there from before
  13. #33  
    I'm not buying into any of those....Between my PC at home and my smartphone.....what else do I NEED??
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    I'm not buying into any of those....Between my PC at home and my smartphone.....what else do I NEED??
    this makes more sense... HP needs to convince people that they NEED these devices
  15. #35  
    one option HP has, that dosn't seem to be entertained here, is going down an already worn path by the likes of acer and other huge manufacturers.

    acer had pre installed and without much fanfare, a quickboot linux os on manyof there windows laptops. I know because I just bought one, and found out by surprise.

    it's a nice little os, for quickly browsing (boot is as near as makes no diference fast) but kinda useless in other regards, not easy to get apps and whatnot.

    HP could potentially throw, with no cost to them lisencing wise, a quickboot webos on every single laptop they sel. It could be a version that uses trackpads to navigate (a refined version of the emulator that already does this on x86 chips)

    and they could do it as inconspicuously as acer does, which is to say you wouldn't know unless you pressed a little button near the wifi button

    in other words HP sells windows laptops and does not advertise heavily yhe webOS function, it's just along for the ride if people want, otherwise you never have to think about it.

    this gives hp a user install base to work out details/experiment with, but avoids the need to polish and rely on webOS for that form factor as it is reallty a plain ole fully loaded windows machine.

    over time webos could become more and more useful as that small percentage of users who will sometimes boot webOS provide feedback.

    as the os improves to be a real and desireable feature they an maeket it as such, now users descovering it for the first time will find a more polished, notebook navigitable fastboot ui with all kinds of useful apps and functions. Thus increasing the install base of active users, and ensuring a truly positive experience for them in the process.
  16. #36  
    can you say atrix? Hell yea I want a netbook. Though I'd rather a atrix like webtop than a dedicated netbook. Because then I compare it to windows netbooks and they do alot more.
  17. spare's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Three comments:

    1) Android is a completely different platform than any other out there. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

    2) Android didn't start out that way either. They built up dev interest first.

    3) That is not even accurate. It's only in the past few months that Android has expanded outside of just phones.

    You have to build the foundation before you start talking about the second floor.
    1. generic statement, be more specific.
    2. Android had around 10,000 apps the first year when the droid was introduced, then ballooned to the hundred thousand a year later due to the droid selling millions. That tells me consumers bought the phone in millions despite the relatively low number of apps.
    3. I was just talking about the different phone form factors (for geeks apparently).
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    one option HP has, that dosn't seem to be entertained here, is going down an already worn path by the likes of acer and other huge manufacturers.

    acer had pre installed and without much fanfare, a quickboot linux os on manyof there windows laptops. I know because I just bought one, and found out by surprise.

    it's a nice little os, for quickly browsing (boot is as near as makes no diference fast) but kinda useless in other regards, not easy to get apps and whatnot.

    HP could potentially throw, with no cost to them lisencing wise, a quickboot webos on every single laptop they sel. It could be a version that uses trackpads to navigate (a refined version of the emulator that already does this on x86 chips)

    and they could do it as inconspicuously as acer does, which is to say you wouldn't know unless you pressed a little button near the wifi button

    in other words HP sells windows laptops and does not advertise heavily yhe webOS function, it's just along for the ride if people want, otherwise you never have to think about it.

    this gives hp a user install base to work out details/experiment with, but avoids the need to polish and rely on webOS for that form factor as it is reallty a plain ole fully loaded windows machine.

    over time webos could become more and more useful as that small percentage of users who will sometimes boot webOS provide feedback.

    as the os improves to be a real and desireable feature they an maeket it as such, now users descovering it for the first time will find a more polished, notebook navigitable fastboot ui with all kinds of useful apps and functions. Thus increasing the install base of active users, and ensuring a truly positive experience for them in the process.
    your descibing a beta
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    1. generic statement, be more specific.
    2. Android had around 10,000 apps the first year when the droid was introduced, then ballooned to the hundred thousand a year later due to the droid selling millions. That tells me consumers bought the phone in millions despite the relatively low number of apps.
    3. I was just talking about the different phone form factors (for geeks apparently).

    1. Android is an open source platform. It is not pushed by Google, it is pushed my manufacturers. It is, in all seriousness, a completely different monster. It is free and it can be used by anyone for any purpose as long as they follow the GPL. [general public license]

    2. Android was at 10,000 apps the first year back when mobile interest was still all on Apple. That is significant. Consumers bought the phones for a plethora of reasons but the fact is that devs had the interest. As you say, they went from 10,000 to 100,000 in less than a year. Now they are in the driver seat. But everything was already in place specifically by Google.

    3. Okay but we're talking about a WebOS netbook here. lol
  20. spare's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    one option HP has, that dosn't seem to be entertained here, is going down an already worn path by the likes of acer and other huge manufacturers.

    acer had pre installed and without much fanfare, a quickboot linux os on manyof there windows laptops. I know because I just bought one, and found out by surprise.

    it's a nice little os, for quickly browsing (boot is as near as makes no diference fast) but kinda useless in other regards, not easy to get apps and whatnot.

    HP could potentially throw, with no cost to them lisencing wise, a quickboot webos on every single laptop they sel. It could be a version that uses trackpads to navigate (a refined version of the emulator that already does this on x86 chips)

    and they could do it as inconspicuously as acer does, which is to say you wouldn't know unless you pressed a little button near the wifi button

    in other words HP sells windows laptops and does not advertise heavily yhe webOS function, it's just along for the ride if people want, otherwise you never have to think about it.

    this gives hp a user install base to work out details/experiment with, but avoids the need to polish and rely on webOS for that form factor as it is reallty a plain ole fully loaded windows machine.

    over time webos could become more and more useful as that small percentage of users who will sometimes boot webOS provide feedback.

    as the os improves to be a real and desireable feature they an maeket it as such, now users descovering it for the first time will find a more polished, notebook navigitable fastboot ui with all kinds of useful apps and functions. Thus increasing the install base of active users, and ensuring a truly positive experience for them in the process.
    HP already does that with HP QuickWeb. HP Mini by Studio Tord Boontje - reviews - Notebooks - Entry Level - PC World

    They could replace QuickWeb with webOS.
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