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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Let's see what Enyo is capable, and then talk about this. You know what happens on iPhone and iPad because iOS UI can't handle different resolutions, so just rescaling an app doesn't work, as the larger screen losses utility.
    This is not about different resolutions. It wouldn't matter if the resolution was a one to one match. It is about what kind of user interface makes the most sense with a particular app on a particular screen. With few exceptions, I don't want iPhone apps perfectly scaled to the iPad; I want a different app, with a different UI. Resolution and scaling have nothing to do with it.
  2. #62  
    you both have valid points but I think you're not understanding each other's points fully. Enyo and the vision of webOS is being pitched as being very modular and very consistent with standards and such because they are looking to bring in developers. While it's somewhat true, what dandbj13 is trying to call attention to is that there is NO system that is capable to perfectly translating a good user experience w/o human intent behind it. What HPalm has been glossing over is the fact that sme customization and optimization does need to happen in the transition. For some apps that may be a small amount of work (like games that use their own unique interface & interactions) while others, more complex apps that uses more OS-level elements and require more depth, will require more work. The point is: don't expect a magical machine to translate for you.
  3. #63  
    Could you vector everything and never worry about resolution again?

    Also when windows7 brings out a tab, it will be as simple as stretching the screen over the whole category and not need to swipe between panes anymore.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is not about different resolutions. It wouldn't matter if the resolution was a one to one match. It is about what kind of user interface makes the most sense with a particular app on a particular screen. With few exceptions, I don't want iPhone apps perfectly scaled to the iPad; I want a different app, with a different UI. Resolution and scaling have nothing to do with it.
    really take a look at the enyo presentation from devday

    its what you are talking about.

    I was there and, along with a few hundred other developers, most of whom were already established on iOS or android, simultaneously gasped and applauded, its pretty cool.

    certainly some apps will need additional thought and human input, but it provides flexibility to built that into a single app that works across platforms, but with an automatically adjusting unique UI for a given screensize.

    of course i am over simplifying, but you can watch the presentation for a better idea of what I'm talking about.

    in case you already did watch the full enyo presentation, perhaps then I am misunderstanding you, in which case, perhaps you could give some examples to help?
    There are four lights.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is not about different resolutions. It wouldn't matter if the resolution was a one to one match. It is about what kind of user interface makes the most sense with a particular app on a particular screen. With few exceptions, I don't want iPhone apps perfectly scaled to the iPad; I want a different app, with a different UI. Resolution and scaling have nothing to do with it.
    Exactly, and that's where Enyo plays an important role. Please watch the Enyo "proof of concept" email app video (seems to me like you don't have watched it), and you'll get what means Enyo.

    .
    Last edited by deCorvett; 01/13/2011 at 12:40 PM.
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  6. philbw's Avatar
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    #66  
    My quick opinion on the smartphone vs tablet systems being different: I think it's crucial that the tablet version *add* the needed code to handle multiple panes of content and larger resolutions. I think people are mixing up one or the other here. The tablet OS will more than likely be the smartphone OS with stuff *added* to enable features for a bigger screen. I don't see there being any fragmentation issues with this. If you have a 5 seat car and a 5 seat truck with a trailer hitch they can both carry 5 people while the truck can *also* tow. Ok so that wasn't so quick.

    Now to the framework debacle: Both Mojo and Enyo do basically the same thing in different eays. They both provide native "web" code access to underlying device functions. I really don't see why Mojo compatibility would need to be turned off in a hurry. I think there will be a point soon where Palm won't accept anymore Mojo apps in to the catalog but I don't see it hurting anything to keep compatibility with old apps for some time to come.

    I think more importantly than Enyo we need *hybrid* pdk apps. Lot of developers out there with piles of c & c++ code that's just ready to port. Right now if they aren't using OpenGL or SDL they don't have options for a UI (which pretty much means games and only games).

    Ok that's enough out of me.
    - Phil -
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by IcerC View Post
    Could you vector everything and never worry about resolution again?
    Pretty close to that. As always, you can't pretend the framework to draw the exact UI you have in mind, so some coding will be necessary, but you'll be able to do some great things without ever think how to do them.
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  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by BoraWare View Post
    I really don't see why Mojo compatibility would need to be turned off in a hurry. I think there will be a point soon where Palm won't accept anymore Mojo apps in to the catalog but I don't see it hurting anything to keep compatibility with old apps for some time to come.
    Because Mojo is the culprit of the slow app loading times, and Mojo was originally designed just for smartphones. I thing they learned something about eternal backwards compatibility from PalmOS days...
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  9. #69  
    Trust me, I've seen the demo. I even understand what is happening in the way that a tech-sazy, non-developer can understand such things. See Un_designer's post. He said it better than I could.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    As far as I've seen, is much more than that. (I need to se it in action, anyways, but I'll see it at MWC).

    What I've seen is a paneled UI (as every app out there) that automatically resizes it's panels and show/hide them depending on screen resolution and app focus state.

    The mail app example shows it perfectly: three panels, one with the accounts view, another one with the emails list, and another one with the read view. If the screen is large, it shows (without coding anything) all the panels. If the screen is small, it shows only one of the panels.

    So, in large devices, the app acts as a desktop email client, and in small devices, the app behaves the same as usuall (one scene to show accounts, tap on an account to enter in the mails list, and tap on an email to show the read scene.

    Obviously, there will be cases when some code is needed, but the basics are great.
    I thought that was what i said, but chances are you better understand what i said than i did.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    I thought that was what i said, but chances are you better understand what i said than i did.
    Probably you said exactly that, but I've read exactly the opposite.

    That's the magic of my english skills...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
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  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Trust me, I've seen the demo. I even understand what is happening in the way that a tech-sazy, non-developer can understand such things. See Un_designer's post. He said it better than I could.
    Obviously, the perfect UI can't be done just with that, and here enters the developer expertise and style.

    But if the foundation is good (and it seems it will be) optimizing stuff is waaaay easier to accomplish, in the same time, at the same time, for every device screen.

    And that's a huge appealing point (and resources saver) for devs.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
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  13. shloime's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Probably you said exactly that, but I've read exactly the opposite.

    That's the magic of my english skills...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    whats your language,spanish? lets start writing and practicing our spanish. we are all going to barcelona soon,right?
    espana bonita...cuanto te quiero...
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by shloime View Post
    whats your language,spanish? lets start writing and practicing our spanish. we are all going to barcelona soon,right?
    espana bonita...cuanto te quiero...
    I'll be there, definitely. One day trip. My plan is to be at the dev's conference, and while waiting for the conference, at HP's booth, playing with the new phones, tablets and toasters .

    oh, and telling all the people entering the booth that Palm is doomed, HP can't sell phones and there is no way they can compete in the mobile market... (I think I'm starting to suffer some kind of Stockholm Syndrome)
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  15. #75  
    ok guys (or gals? idk) can we all just agree that we're all pretty much saying the same thing now? essentially, let's give HPalm a chance to prove themselves with Enyo before we rush to judgment. however, let's not buy too much into the kool-aid to the point that we don't keep an eye on the things that get glossed over. the end goal is the same really: we all want webOS and Enyo to succeed, but we also need to be realistic and be critical so that HPalm delivers the best product they can.
  16. mike5's Avatar
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    #76  
    [QUOTE=dandbj13;2825152]1. The infamous iTunes hijacking stunt. Palm didn't have the resources or will to build their own desktop/sync/media client, so they tried to piggyback on someone else's... without permission!

    It is MY music on a player. Why can't I take MY music to any player I want? This seems more like an Apple problem than a Palm problem. It is why I quit using iTunes. In this case, Apple forgot who owns the music and who they are hurting--the consumer.

    BTW, I am not an Apple hater. I have a MacBook Pro & an iMac, just don't use iTunes anymore.
  17. #77  
    Ya iTunes is ridiculous. My wife insists on using it and gets burned all the time. They might as well say you are renting the music because you most certainly do not own it.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-pre View Post
    I also agree - a Phone and a tablet while similar are incredibly different form factors. My main hope is that developerís apps will run seamlessly on both.
    +1.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    It is MY music on a player. Why can't I take MY music to any player I want? This seems more like an Apple problem than a Palm problem. It is why I quit using iTunes. In this case, Apple forgot who owns the music and who they are hurting--the consumer.

    BTW, I am not an Apple hater. I have a MacBook Pro & an iMac, just don't use iTunes anymore.
    I have used iTunes off and on for almost a decade and have no problem playing my music in any other player. I think you're confusing DRM with the iTunes program. My music is all DRM-free and therefore more widely usable. To establish business relationships with music suppliers, for years Apple had to apply DRM. They no longer do today. If you purchased music from Apple, through iTunes, during the DRM years, you faced a bit of a challenge getting the DRM off your music...but it could be done.
  20. mike5's Avatar
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I have used iTunes off and on for almost a decade and have no problem playing my music in any other player. I think you're confusing DRM with the iTunes program. My music is all DRM-free and therefore more widely usable. To establish business relationships with music suppliers, for years Apple had to apply DRM. They no longer do today. If you purchased music from Apple, through iTunes, during the DRM years, you faced a bit of a challenge getting the DRM off your music...but it could be done.
    Thanks, Kupe & you are right. I was responding to someone who, over the years, has had the same hassles getting the music away from iTunes once you are on it. Even the simple things like syncing w/devices--webOS or Android. Sure we can get the music, but we have to put it in USB mode & drag it over (as far as I know) & it is a bit of a hassle. For me, if they had continued allowing the syncing to the Pre & other devices, I would be more apt to use iTunes & buy from iTunes. Since they don't, they lost me as a customer--at least in terms of buying songs.
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